Driverless cars.

chris954

chris954

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There’s just been an article on the BBC news stating that driverless cars may soon be allowed on our roads. I have mixed opinions on this, Would you trust the tech, what are the legal implications with regards to liability after an accident? can you sleep while the car is driving? What about drinking alcohol and letting the car drive you home after one or twelve too many?
 
chris954 said:
What about drinking alcohol and letting the car drive you home after one or twelve too many?
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I imagine that you'll still be legally "in charge" of the car and therefor responsible for its safe operation.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I imagine that you'll still be legally "in charge" of the car and therefor responsible for its safe operation.
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But if you didn’t write the software that’s controlling the car, are you I charge of it?
 
Not too sure when we heard the bulletin......but did it mention that the 'driver' had to touch the steering wheel at frequent intervals? Thus if you are asleep or inebriated you are not likely to make the prescribed response!

I think I recall reading that there are systems that can be installed in any (high end?) cars that will not start of you are drunk? Surely the same would apply to the "driverless" car?
 
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So we will have situation where some cars are computer controlled and some will have old fashioned human control. Could be very interesting
 
chris954 said:
But if you didn’t write the software that’s controlling the car, are you I charge of it?
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The lawyers will, no doubt, make enough out of that question to pay their chauffeurs.
 
I am reminded of the time volvo demonstrated their automatic emergency braking system and it drove straight into the truck instead of stopping. The twit holding the wheel always has to be there and be responsible.
 
In the article I saw it said that they would be allowed in the slow lane of motorways, up to 70 mph and responsible for speed and steering. The driver would have to do everything else. Cruise control on lots of cars already adjust the speed if cars are detected in front and lane control is also available, although I don't think that is 100% reliable yet.
 
Suvv said:
In the article I saw it said that they would be allowed in the slow lane of motorways, up to 70 mph
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Awesome article if it said there is a "slow lane", I don't think it's ever been officially called that and certainly isn't now; and 70mph is the supposed top speed anyway

Dave
 
We already have some where I live.

Well they seem to move around as though they don't have a driver at the wheel o_O
 
At least they would obay the rules and not undertake or leave the motorway at the last possible second.
 
I wonder how they cope with cyclists?

I cycle a lot and I'm conscious of the fact that I am a small target for the radar acquisition system in the driver less car.
 
My wife doesn't even trust cruise control, I cannot see her ever trusting a car to drive itself. We have had several cars with 'park assist' features which in theory should allow them to park themselves but we have never been brave enough to try it.

I am in favour of driver aids such as blind spot monitoring and lane keeping 'alerts' but still prefer to be in control myself.

We have had glitches with the emergency braking feature due to heavy rain 'blinding' the sensors on one of our cars (a common issue, according to the dealer), so the technology is a long way from being reliable and robust enough in my opinion.
 
Norkie said:
I wonder how they cope with cyclists?

I cycle a lot and I'm conscious of the fact that I am a small target for the radar acquisition system in the driver less car.
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Well if you decided to risk your life on busy dangerous roads you should at least think about your visibility and how a machine sensor will detect you. Lights, Bright colours, great contrast from the background is probably what you are looking at; nothing really new. I'm shocked how many cyclists still dress in black and have no lights at night.

broc said:
My wife doesn't even trust cruise control, I cannot see her ever trusting a car to drive itself.
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CC is a dumb basic control, and will be over-ridden by a light tap on the brakes. They are quite safe unless you fall asleep which is dangerous any way you look.

broc said:
We have had several cars with 'park assist' features which in theory should allow them to park themselves but we have never been brave enough to try it.
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The way the complete morons park around my house I would prefer to use that park assist, if they had it. I now park on different streets to avoid them

broc said:
We have had glitches with the emergency braking feature due to heavy rain 'blinding' the sensors on one of our cars (a common issue, according to the dealer), so the technology is a long way from being reliable and robust enough in my opinion.
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That sounds nasty and dangerous. I would disable that rubbish if you can or else move to a safe earlier model.

seaodyssey said:
undertake
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I also hope they don't hog middle lane well under speed limit. This is what causes undertaking.

Overall, I am really not looking forward to it. Maybe on the positive side it will stop some lorries with sleeping drivers moving into different lanes or even crashing.
 
"some lorries with sleeping drivers"

What daily rag do you read!
 
I heard that on the radio yesterday as well, and they are saying within a year!
I guess that means that all new cars next year might / must / will be autonomous.

I think its too soon.
They make and test them here.
last one I heard hit a bollard that was in a pedestrian area!
That's a big fat no from me even if it just "local" and forget traveling national in the damned things]


Milton Keynes is full robots. A few hundred meters from the city's central shopping area, an autonomous car approaches Campbell Park roundabout. As the Tata vehicle arrives at the roundabout, which is indistinguishable from any of the city's 130 others, it lurches to a stop. Then waits to make its next move.

"Our system can detect traffic coming around roundabouts but at this point I think we need to do more testing before we allow it to make that final decision," says Andy Harris, a chief engineer at Tata Motors. The human safety driver, sat behind the steering wheel in anticipation of any problems, checks the road is clear and presses a red button telling the vehicle to advance.

But the city environments of both Coventry and Milton Keynes have caused some problems for the autonomous vehicles. Harris says the centre of Coventry, which is dominated by its university, meant people on foot were often crossing roads unexpectedly and the car had to be taught to better understand pedestrian trajectories.

Trees have also caused issues. "When the leaves started blowing off [the car] started seeing them as moving objects," says Harris. "When they come across as a cloud they look like a solid object." The software powering the car had to be programmed not to see foliage as an issue


And more
SOURCE
 
Will there be female versions that don't indicate and can't park? :D
 
My wife supplied the brain scan algorithm.

And for the A Level results.
 
O M G !!!!

The prospect of such automated 'controls' becoming a reality is totally horrifying!

Such 'features' completely take away or reduce any inclination of a driver to actually think about driving and controlling their vehicle.

But I am a driver who loves driving and doesn't even switch on the radio or play music in my car. I never ever use Cruise Control either and always de-activate any auto stop-start so-called 'feature'. YUK!!!!

I am so glad I won't still be driving in say about 10 years time!
 
I don't understand the rush to driverless cars for the consumer. :thinking: I understand some of the reasons for manufacturers and governments.

The thought that has always been in my mind is who will be responsible when one one of these driverless cars is involved in a crash, the 'driver', the manufacturer, or what, and there will be accidents. :( Not that I have been following it too much, but I don't think I have seen a definitive answer to that. And I know that in most road traffic accidents there may be innocent party's in most crashes, and that could be a driverless car, but there will be instances of the driverless car being responsible for potentially someone's death, and who will ultimately be responsible? Until that is determined, I don't think they sould be allowed on road.

If the 'driver' in a driverless car has to be in a position to take over should something 'go wrong', then why not just drive the car, because if you are having to concentrate on what is going on as if you were driving, then what is the point! And if a driver does have to take over, then that may be time that could make a crash more likely, because there will always be a delay in the changeover.

It will happen regardless though, because so much money has been put into it all. :( :rolleyes:

Good luck taking on a large car manufacturer in court, should the worst happen with one of these cars.
 
Imagine you are involved in designing the logic controlling a self driving car & you are faced with a dilemma;

The radar has detected a child stepping out in front of the vehicle & there is not enough distance to stop.....

The choices are brake hard anyway & hit the child, veer to the left & mount the pavement where a group of people are standing, or veer to the right and collide head on with an HGV ....

What do you do?

As an ex-programmer I would hate to have to make the call.....
 
RedRobin said:
But I am a driver who loves driving
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The problem as I see it Robin, far too many people don't like driving / don't drive a fun car or a car for fun.
It seems the government want us all in featureless boxes and electric ones at that :(

I had an electric car years ago, I think it was called "Scalextric"
:D

redhed17 said:
And if a driver does have to take over, then that may be time that could make a crash more likely, because there will always be a delay in the changeover.
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Yep what's all this about thinking time > braking distance.
How about thinking time > swap drivers > thinking time > brake splat ... be that kid or other car. :(

broc said:
The radar has detected a child stepping out in front of the vehicle & there is not enough distance to stop.....
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One would hope the car would blow its own hooter
and be yelling get out the f*****g way kid!
Until they are as clever or cleverer as "KITT"
then Its a disaster waiting to happen :(
 
MartynK said:
I've explained this before. BMW drivers always indicate to confirm what they've just done, in case you missed it...:cool:
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Yes of course you did, my bad (y)
:D

One confused the hell outta me the other day.
he actually went where he signaled he was going.


hide.gif
 
Cockney said:
Now that's dangerous!
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I thought it was very inconsiderate TBH. I prefer to guess where the f*** they are going, spoiling my fun like that :(
 
It’s motorways only so at least that rules out 2 way traffic (99% of the time).

Legally I can’t see manufacturers taking on the liability when there is a driver in the car - Tesla has the most advanced system, yet the driver is still responsible.

Mixing human drivers and electronic drivers is fraught with traumas as computers can follow the same rules and in some cases talk to each other (e.g. TCAS for aircraft) but they don’t have intuition, though on the flip side computers don’t weave / cut up / speed like the minority of d***head humans.

Finally, the “trolley problem” in the event of an unavoidable collision. Considerate balanced humans can make the choice in a fraction of a second - computers can’t as yet.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Trolley problem - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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Cobra said:
I thought it was very inconsiderate TBH. I prefer to guess where the f*** they are going, spoiling my fun like that :(
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Did you get his registration number? Report him to the BMW Driver's Association, for conduct unbecoming...;)
 
Cobra said:
The problem as I see it Robin, far too many people don't like driving / don't drive a fun car or a car for fun.
It seems the government want us all in featureless boxes and electric ones at that :(
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Seems I'm in a minority! I enjoy driving but there's very little opportunity to have much fun behind the wheel these days. Oddly, pretty much the most fun (on 4 wheels, dressed...) is flooring the Leaf away from a particular set of lights that are on a dual carriageway. 2 wheels are much more fun!
 
MartynK said:
Did you get his registration number? Report him to the BMW Driver's Association, for conduct unbecoming...;)
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I was too stunned TBH I just couldn't believe what I was seeing :(
 
I welcome new technology when it works, but don't have any on my old off-roader. And that's because, in my experience, it usually works badly. I used to have a more 'sophisticated' car that would automatically change into 4WD or into front diff locked mode when necessary, but it never actually did it until 1/2 second after it needed to, so now I use my own knowledge and experience.

But sometimes it works well. My eldest son had a bad crash on the M11 when a lorry drifted into his top of the range Tesla in lane 3. The car braked and swerved, the damage amounted to £60K but there were no injuries and it would have been far worse if the car hadn't reacted so quickly, and correctly too.

As for "Driverless" - I welcome it in principle but can't quite trust it yet. And doesn't it need 5G to work?
 
Garry Edwards said:
so now I use my own knowledge and experience.
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Us of a certain age can do that, and lets be honest the cars that we were driving when we past our test, needed "driving"
no fancy this that or the other driver aid back in the day Eh? ;)

And that experience and knowledge is sadly lacking in a lot of people these days, you only have to follow a learner to realise why ;)

I'm glad your lad was OK (y)
 
Nod said:
Seems I'm in a minority! I enjoy driving but there's very little opportunity to have much fun behind the wheel these days. Oddly, pretty much the most fun (on 4 wheels, dressed...) is flooring the Leaf away from a particular set of lights that are on a dual carriageway. 2 wheels are much more fun!
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I also enjoy driving, especially with the roof down on my Mini Cooper S. It was great fun driving around the TT course last year(even staying within the speed limits:)), probably not as much fun as the bikers were having but good enough for me. The 2.0 litre turbo with almost 190BHP gives the Mini a bit of pace and it sticks to the road pretty well too.
 
Bring back trams :oops: :$
 
In my work we are involved in numerous tests of autonomous cars around the world - the company makes visibility sensors. Right now, no-one can even get the car to see properly or reliably in anything but clear air on closed test tracks. Add fog, rain, smog, etc., and the results are nowhere near good enough to let them loose on the roads. Take away the white lines and most are blinder than a bat. I don't really understand how there haven't already been more "drivers" or other road users killed during live testing.

The technology will catch up eventually but it ain't there yet and hasn't progressed very far in the last 5 years :(
 
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