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Driverless Cars
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dejongj
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As I always say, if your gonna have one have a big one
That is exactly what I thought when I saw that man at whipsnade whip it out by lynxes. I said to myself wow that is a big one.
Hmm I might actually have a photo of it, maybe I should post it here
Found it ...
http://www.oooia.com/whipsnade-wild-animal-park-street-photography/tog-a-tog/
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*takes a bow*
Nothing I can say or do will prevent that I guess?Hmm I might actually have a photo of it, maybe I should post it here
Edit I guess not
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Overrated, overpriced and under powered. You could have a Mountune Fiesta ST for less. Or much cheaper still a Mountune MR165 Fiesta.
dejongj
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Perhaps so, you can have several Tata or Dacia cars for even less. Doesn't make them anymore desirable. Being cheap is to me not a criteria to buy a vehicle, I must like it, I must enjoy it. To me a fiesta is like a corsa, too boy racerish, too tinny, just not a consideration at all. Then again I've never been a Ford fan, cant think of a single model in their range which I would consider.
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But Tata and Dacia don't have sporty models so you have completely missed the point. Just because the Fiesta ST costs less than the Fiat, it doesn't follow it is cheap or tinny. You'd get a lot more enjoyment out of the Fiesta ST than the Fiat Handbag. Even the mucho cheapo MG3 is a better handling car than the Fiat. I'm intrigued to know how you can enjoy a car knowing you could have bought better for less. The only thing stopping the Fiat being boy racerish is it's a girls car.
dejongj
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It all depends on your definition of better. To me the ford is hardly ever the better option. It just doesn't do anything for me. As such less != more for me.
Besides I get the ST brigade nearly every day trying to have a street "race". It is so funny as there isn't even a point in trying, I just let them 'win'.
Perhaps if I was late teens or early twenties I'd consider one, but listening to my teenagers even then it is not cool.
Besides I get the ST brigade nearly every day trying to have a street "race". It is so funny as there isn't even a point in trying, I just let them 'win'.
Perhaps if I was late teens or early twenties I'd consider one, but listening to my teenagers even then it is not cool.
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The only thing stopping the Fiat being boy racerish is it's a girls car.
that is certainly the impression I get. They are intentionally designed to appeal specifically to those buyers. In fact they are so incredibly small I don't see how anyone taller than 1.65m (or maybe less) could fit in one. Fiesta on the other hand can sort of accommodate life size humans, however I'm with Steve here - E class or similar dimensions equivalent is a minimum sensible car.
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Faster, better handling, more fun and rewarding to drive and doesn't have to be driven like a boy racer neither. I'd have had a Fiesta ST (I'm 52) but I need a bigger car so bought a Focus ST and that was cost less than the Fiat too. You obviously frequent the wrong areas if you only encounter boyracers in Ford ST's. They more likely to be found in VW's. Audi's or anything German for that matter and I'm in Essex. Taking advice from teenagers isn't cool neither.
dejongj
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I guess I'm in touch with my feminine side. Don't agree on the height thing at all. My daughter is 12 and already 1.72m and easily fitted in the back. She complains in my golf and the mini works we test drove. But yes most definitely prefers the size of the GL to be a passenger.
I disagree, being inclusive and involving a teenager in the purchases makes live a lot easier. Besides they know what is in and happening compared to many others. And for small cars like the fiesta that is very important.
For me, if it had to be small and front wheel drive I'd prefer a Renault sport megane or seat Ibiza. That is if I was going for all out drivers enjoyment and agility.
Scary thought is that the time will be there soon to get something fun and manual shifting for my girls.
And I've only got 8 more months in my R. Got to think what I will get next for myself.
dejongj
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You don't encounter them because you are driving one. It would be different if you were in an Golf R
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Wouldn't be seen dead in one,It would be different if you were in an Golf R
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Corsa yobs here in Scotland. Subaru was several years back, now you don't see many at all. Cars must vary from place to place.
FWD hot hatches... hmmm I'd go for Focus ST here myself if I was forced at a gunpoint to get one. Standard sized Golfs are very tight inside. Octavia VRS / Golf plus / Tiguan - more like it (more space). Honestly, there are much nicer Passats, Audi A6, 4-6 series BMW and they go even better. Maybe even B-class merc if buying new. They can be quite thuggish with 2.1 L diesel owing to nice seating positions with great visibility, low weight and low end diesel grunt. You just don't want to face the repair bills of these things.
As far as your daughters go I suspect they may too prefer to spend more time with handheld electronic gadgets. New generation seem to go this way; very few young people are truly enthusiastic about cars they way it used to be. They may be more than happy with your average auto eco box as long as it 'just goes' from A to B.
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Focus RS due at end of the year, 320PS plus, but expect it to be more in the region of 350PS
A mate at work has already driven a detuned (300PS) test vehicle on Ford's Lommel proving grounds and reckons it's mental. Took a lot of goes to get the back end to step out even just a little bit.
dejongj
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But but but, to use your words, its much better, quicker, faster, better handling, better screwed together, and cheaper. It eats any ford currently on sale for breakfast
Seriously though I don't care less about anyone elses choice or preference or opinion. It is great that there is so much choice about.
Something for everyone, it is a futile exercise to try and convince someone that there is only once choice. I just don't understand that. For most people, except people called 'Kevin', there is some kind of emotional part of the decision which may seem irrational to other, however it doesn't make it wrong.
dejongj
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Lol no electronic gadgets for ours. We are quite strict about that especially as a) the eldest broke our trust, and b) on a professional level I have a unique insight gathered now over many years as to how big the problem is. But that is a whole different conversation I can not have in public.
They do like their cars both of them. They've been driving a few times at Brooklands. And on farmland and private land. From when they've been sensible I've also taught them the basics of a powerboat. They understand the mechanics of an engine and how it responds.
But also because of where we live they have no choice but to get transport or ask me or my wife kindly ;-) public transport is not an option.
dejongj
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I recon they should get more power out of it. It will really be trailing behind the competition and it is rather late.
Will it still be fwd? I have a few acquaintances with the old one and they just cant get the power down and forget it with a bit of rain.
Personally I would find the new Type R more interesting. A friend got the new Audi RS3 on order, again doesn't do it for me either. I hate the interior, truly dislike it.
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They are not though, they are more expensive and not better screwed together as you put it. I get to see them dismantled completely into component form at work and believe me they are nothing special. Oh and the currently on sale Ford Mustang GT will eat your Golf R for breakfast, and when the uprated version comes out it will likely eat it for lunch dinner and supper too.But but but, to use your words, its much better, quicker, faster, better handling, better screwed together, and cheaper. It eats any ford currently on sale for breakfast
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The new RS is 4wd, but with an intelligent 4wd system that instead of backing off power to a wheel that has lost grip will increase power up to 100%, to the opposite wheel instead to allow the car to continue to power through a bend safely rather than it applying the brakes and making it slower. It will also come with drift mode and track mode should you want to take it on a race track.
dejongj
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I like the Mustang GT, the word is that finally for the first time they could go around a corner as well. Hmm we'll have to see about that. But ahem, it is not actually on sale just yet...it is not released yet in the UK as far as I am aware...They are not though, they are more expensive and not better screwed together as you put it. I get to see them dismantled completely into component form at work and believe me they are nothing special. Oh and the currently on sale Ford Mustang GT will eat your Golf R for breakfast, and when the uprated version comes out it will likely eat it for lunch dinner and supper too.
That is good to know, it needed that....We'll have to see when it comes out as to whether it is any good. Just hope it won't have those ghastly spoilers and colours from the past models...
EDIT: Oops, oh dear...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/90260/ford-focus-rs-unleashed-at-last-pictures#1
definitely a boy racers special in the looks department...No matter how good it may be, those kind of looks I find very hmmm interesting. That spoiler comes in handy in a pub car park, perfect to put your beers on whilst having a natter....A boys car imo, or a mans car for grown men who wear rally jackets with all the labels on it in my opinion....Not for me at all....
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StewartR
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Just to try to get this thread vaguely back on track: I wonder what will happen to the hot car / boy racer culture when driverless cars become the norm? I wouldn't mind betting that a computer controlled car could hustle it along country lanes faster than most human drivers could; will that matter? Will there be a market for performance tuning in software rather than hardware? Will people still argue the toss over the Focus ST vs the Golf R or whatever?
ianp5a
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Thanks for bringing it back on track. For the boy racers, you could still fit a huge spoiler and have engine revving noises over the sound system. The head up display could be converted so the driver can play Super Mario Kart.
I cannot get excited about hot hatches. I'd drool over some Aston Martins and various sports cars from the 60's though.
I cannot get excited about hot hatches. I'd drool over some Aston Martins and various sports cars from the 60's though.
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wyx087
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I'd like to think performance tuning in driverless cars would be like doing "GTA 5's taxi ride of death" (google it): dangerously pushing the AI to its limits, taking unnecessary risks. That trip only have 10% survival rate, I've never survived trying it.
I think driverless cars are still very far off as long as there are human elements on the road. A complete change of road infrastructure is needed for true zero-car ownership and driverless taxi rides. Frankly, I don't wish car ownership to become a niche, it would become too expensive for those who like to drive.
In next few years, people will still argue over Focus ST and Golf R. Only difference would be newer vehicles can function without driver interaction while under certain conditions. Human judgement is still needed at junctions and roundabouts, there's too many variables.
I think driverless cars are still very far off as long as there are human elements on the road. A complete change of road infrastructure is needed for true zero-car ownership and driverless taxi rides. Frankly, I don't wish car ownership to become a niche, it would become too expensive for those who like to drive.
In next few years, people will still argue over Focus ST and Golf R. Only difference would be newer vehicles can function without driver interaction while under certain conditions. Human judgement is still needed at junctions and roundabouts, there's too many variables.
dejongj
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I think it will all be about breaking the control of the computer and providing a manual override. In addition there will always be tinkering 'Kevin' who think they know better and will provide 'improvements' to the handling, suspension, distance of the car in-front etc...
I disagree with wuyanxu, a computer is much better and quicker at calculating the impacts and possible outcomes of variables at junctions and roundabouts...And unless someone tinkers with the computer programmes or the fail saves they will actually stick to the rules....
I just hope, although I know it is in vain, that people stop saying that their choice is the right one and better one for everyone else....But hey I guess fanboys in all categories will remain to exist...The topics might change, the behaviours are strictly human.
wyx087
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I agree with that statement and that theory. Indeed a complete automated junction will mean zero congestion.
But as long as there is human element in the equation, the complexity of calculations increases exponentially. This is why in the coming years (by which I mean the next 10 years), I can't see completely automated cars a reality on our roads. Technology is ready for automation under only certain conditions.
ianp5a
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Cities with the most dire congestion will be the first to introduce "driverless only" separated routes. Which, at twice the speed and half the gap, and no junction controls, will suck a whole load of traffic out of the congested roads. And encourage use of more driverless vehicles. And lower city air pollution.
I'll wave with both hands out the side window at the boy racers, sitting in stop-start traffic, as I whistle past.
I'll wave with both hands out the side window at the boy racers, sitting in stop-start traffic, as I whistle past.
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decigallen
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It's incredible arrogance of some to assume that humans are somehow better at driving that machines will be. The decision making abilities of computers will very quickly surpass that of most drivers - it probably has, already. Their 'always-on' AI will easily better the fleeting attention spans and carelessness of most drivers. Between 1951 and 2006 a total of 309,144 people were killed and 17.6 million were injured in accidents on British roads, I can only imagine the worldwide figures... human drivers are far from infallible.
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dejongj
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I wish it was true. It seems to be unimaginative and total lack of trabsformational decisions with dedicated bus and cycle lanes. Stuff the rest of Europe done 25 years ago. Britain really need to get their act together and be forward thinking.
I vote for ianp5
But lets get one step further and go multi level b
I vote for ianp5
But lets get one step further and go multi level b
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boy racer culture is already falling / fallen. All it took was stringent insurance rules and much higher premiums for under 25s. Mobile phone obsession was another nail in the coffin. The only sort of buy racers left are maybe the mega rich of London and if I may say so the older generation petrolheads that still need the excitement. The US market may be very different, but this is certainly true in EU.
As the driverless cars take over I can see 2 areas of choice and competition: 1. Economy, tax, subscription fees, etc; 2. Passenger comfort and luxury features, cargo space, visual design. I.e. You get austerity shoebox at the low end of spectrum and all the way up it is a fully loaded limo full of gadgets, but this time with no driver. This sort of means performance cars would only survive if / until human driving is not outlawed or simply priced out by insurance. This will soon leave us only with the likes of Bugatti, Lambo, Ferrari and McLaren for the selected few.
ianp5a
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Although machines are excellent drivers, they are awful at seeing and recognising things like humans can. But perhaps they are getting good enough to drive.
Personal a to b transport is different from current public transport. However if tube trains break (decouple) into pods and branch off, and join up to make new trains, we might be getting somewhere.
Reminds me of the Rush song Red Barchetta. In a dystopic future, he sneaks outside the wire to a hidden vintage sportscar to go for his regular illegal spin out in the bad-lands. But gets chased by the guards in huge modern air cars. But the superior handling and small size of his roadster lets him get away. Or something.
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I had a yellow barchetta on order once
StewartR
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Ooh, nice one. Haven't listened to that for ages. Thanks.
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Many years ago, a motorcycle copper on a MAG toy run had the number 2112 - he overheard us noticing it and we were chatting so much that we got left behind. Cue us following him at a little over the limit round the back of town! Made a change chasing a copper!
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None of that makes sense. If driverless cars will be on separated routes and remove a lot of traffic from the congested roads, the congested roads will no longer be congested and you won't be waving at them with both hands as you'll be on a separate road.
ianp5a
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It will take a while for some people to see the light. But sitting there watching people whizz past with a furrow on their Neanderthal brow it'll eventually sink in. However, others will remain set in their ways.
Some lanes will be initially separated by just a crash barrier. This will be moved one lane across, to make more capacity as the proportion increases.
Some lanes will be initially separated by just a crash barrier. This will be moved one lane across, to make more capacity as the proportion increases.
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It's obviously an alien concept to you but some of us actually enjoy driving. Since passing my test over 34yrs ago I can honestly say I've been a passenger in a car no more than 10 times.
dejongj
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That is besides the point. Many of is enjoy driving, but that is irrelevant.
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No argument from me