Driverless Cars

If some software on a computer had to be operated like we have to operate a manual gearbox car, where you have to move levers and pedals with precise timing and accuracy, we'd not tolerate it, yell at the computer, and change to a better program straight away. He'll, in a car, twitch the steering wheel at the right time, just one inch, and you die!
 
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ianp5a said:
If some software on a computer had to be operated like we have to operate a manual gearbox car, where you have to move levers and pedals with precise timing and accuracy, we'd not tolerate it, yell at the computer, and change to a better program straight away. He'll, in a car, twitch the steering wheel at the right time, just one inch, and you die!
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Maybe if it runs windows! But luckily even ford is now ditching their partnership
 
Steve Smith said:
What would be the point of an automated car with no passengers?


Steve.
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Sorry, poor post.

I like rail travel. I think it's great, it goes a lot faster than a car. My issues with it are it doesn't give you the freedom of a car and you have to share the space with the public.

Imagine a car going at the speed of a TGV train or even a class 390 without sharing it with the public but having your own space AND the freedom that automotive travel gives you. Sounds good. I would drive when I wanted to enjoy but self drive would work for me. Particularly whilst I'm still disqualified
 
ST4 said:
Imagine a car going at the speed of a TGV train or even a class 390 without sharing it with the public but having your own space AND the freedom that automotive travel gives you. Sounds good. I would drive when I wanted to enjoy but self drive would work for me. Particularly whilst I'm still disqualified
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I'm fairly sure that there will be legislation requiring any automatic car to have a licenced driver on board sitting in the driver's seat - just in case!


Steve.
 
Isn't it good that you've all got Programme mode and autofocus on your cameras! :p

Otherwise you might have to regard photography as a skill - like actually controlling a car!


CaveDweller said:
Is society getting lazier and lazier or is it just me? I'd rather have an old car where the only electrics are for wipers and lights. None of this self driven, on board computers and more stupid electrics that go wrongs and you have to plug in a diagnostics computer to find out what's going on kind of stuff....
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Doesn't go nearly far enough!

For years I've contended that the only way to get other traffic out of my way - and incidentally get rid of all the OOF driving Gods - is to ban all corrosive fluids from motor cars!

Lots of people might cope with mechanical rather than hydraulic brakes but take away battery acid and leave the engine sparking only on a magneto and it would see them trying to work out how to crank the engine over with the starting handle ... while I could start my transport with a flip of the manual ignition quadrant!

daugirdas said:
I'll quite happily have one. There is nothing entertaining to drive 100+ miles after midnight or before sunrise.
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How funny! In 21st century Britain that's the only time when driving is entertaining!

ianp5a said:
If some software on a computer had to be operated like we have to operate a manual gearbox car, where you have to move levers and pedals with precise timing and accuracy, we'd not tolerate it, yell at the computer, and change to a better program straight away. He'll, in a car, twitch the steering wheel at the right time, just one inch, and you die!
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I prefer to think it's really good to be an adult and take responsibilty for keeping yourself alive - just by twitching the steering wheel at some other right time!!
 
Steve Smith said:
I'm fairly sure that there will be legislation requiring any automatic car to have a licenced driver on board sitting in the driver's seat - just in case!
Steve.
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It depends on if it is in the transition period of mixed vehicles. Or once there are only autonomous cars involved, when, say, cities only allow that type. And pedestrians are well out of the way. At crossings, cars can cross at high speeds like those motorcycle display teams who just miss each other as they interleave.

Yves Geza said:
I prefer to think it's really good to be an adult and take responsibilty for keeping yourself alive - just by twitching the steering wheel at some other right time!!
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There are very few things in daily life, where a small mistake is rewarded with death. And it happens all to often. I suspect, with the help of legislators and insurance companies, this crazy situation will become a thing of the past.
 
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ianp5a said:
At crossings, cars can cross at high speeds like those motorcycle display teams who just miss each other as they interleave.
.
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It is already implemented in most Indian cities. I cannot say I'd like to see the same here
 
Bad news, the current thinking I am told, means that there will have to be a driver, sober, and paying attention for a considerable time before any Government will even think about allowing the car to do it's own thing.
If the car cocks it up and has an accident the driver will still be responsible, in the same way as they are now with cars that have these clever cruise controls, or a pilot and train driver are.
Both those 2 groups cannot drive with excess of a specified amount of alcohol in their systems, and both are culpable if it goes wrong and they did nothing to stop it.
Speed limits aren't going to change for a long time either.
 
Bernie174 said:
Bad news, the current thinking I am told, means that there will have to be a driver, sober, and paying attention for a considerable time before any Government will even think about allowing the car to do it's own thing.
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That makes sense for the transition period. But later there will be fully autonomous only zones. Like in cities.
 
It will be a very long time before that happens. I don't doubt they said the same when automated pilots came in, yet you still have at least 2 crew on an aircraft.
There's a lot of issues you'd have to overcome anyway. Who pays when it goes wrong? If the manufacturer, then they aren't going to produce cars that are automated, the risk is far too high. If its the owner, you'd be daft, a simple software fault and you could kill someone. No thanks, I've seen what windows can do!
Besides, at the moment the automation can't talk to all the other cars around it, so has no idea what they will do in any given circumstances. So you wont have the TCAS type system you have in aircraft, which because of the third dimension they work in have somewhere to go.
Even in very mature automation software, like aircraft autopilots, they go wrong, badly some times.
 
Sure it might take a while. But I still think it is on it's way. And "they" calculate a big reduction in accidents and deaths because of it. Making it attractive. They will need an certified algorithm. And also black box telemetry to see if the vehicle followed the certified algorithm correctly in an accident situation.
This doesn't get around the moral question of if you should swerve to kill 1 person to avoid 2 people. The famous "Fat Man" question. But that question exists today. It will be no worse. Separation of pedestrians exists today and would need to be enhanced in city situations. If a vehicle is driving empty outside those places, low speed convoys may be the safest way.

I expect there will be more recreational go-kart tracks for those who will miss the noise and the adrenalin. But the less noise an adrenalin in the city the better.
 
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ianp5a said:
This doesn't get around the moral question of if you should swerve to kill 1 person to avoid 2 people. The famous "Fat Man" question. But that question exists today..
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You break instead.
 
ianp5a said:
If a vehicle is driving empty outside those places, low speed convoys may be the safest way.
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And if they could put a universal magnetic coupling front and back then it would be just like my old lego train set :)

There are a bunch of "problems" with the plan but they separate nicely into legal, technical and a bucket you could call "details".

Legal problems can always be solved if you through enough money at them. The tech bits actually pretty hard but it looks like we're close to cracking that. And details are, well, just that. Do the cars talk to each other? Is there a central control? Will we change speed limits for driverless vehicles? etc. Just details - almost at the level where they need any decision to tick them off.
 
These are all things that have been on aircraft since the second world war. We still have pilots.
The simple fact is that while Government allow 'hands free' cars, you will still have a driver who will hold responsibility for a very very long time to come.
On the kill 1 or kill 2, do you really think the software makers are going to have that lumped on them repeatedly? Because without the driver, it is them who will hold the responsibility. It's that reason I doubt we will be anywhere near the driverless situation for a very very long time.
 
I think carless drivers would be safer than driverless cars.


Steve.
 
Pilots have unions, innit?
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They do, yes. But if you were planning on flying aircraft with no crews, them going on strike wouldn't help them!

The reason you still have a pilot is because things still happen an autopilot can't deal with.
Heathrow a couple of years ago being a good example.
Also even with Tcas, Air traffic control and a third dimension to maneuver in you still have collisions.
And thats in a very big sky, heavily regulated. Compared with crowed roads with mixed users.
 
And that brings us neatly to Horses on the road :) I'm quite happy to go back to those days....carless drivers, horses and carriages....good times :)
 
My father told me back then, you could drive into town, park in front of the shop, buy your stuff and drive off again. Not so easy these days.

Sadly going back to horse and cart does not automatically mean less crowded cities and happen times.
 
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ST4 said:
I'll buy you a horse if you give me the GL class :D I'll also buy you a pony for the Golf.
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How about 557 Friesians for the GL, and 298 Thoroughbreds for the Golf? :P
 
ST4 said:
I was thinking just any old nag I could find in the classifieds, I am tight ya know. Maybe a mule?
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On yer bike :P
 
ST4 said:
Ain't gonna happen. Personal mobility is too big a part of people's lives.
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People are happy to give that up in gridlocked, overcrowded cities. And that's where it will all begin.
 
ianp5a said:
People are happy to give that up in gridlocked, overcrowded cities. And that's where it will all begin.
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Car growth is still happening, there's enough suburbanites and rural people to keep the industry alive, and young people still aspire to having a nice car. Any twonk can get an iPhone for a status symbol, a Mercedes, BMW etc will always be wanted.
 
Oh I'm not fortelling the end of the car industry. I hope not. That is where I work. Upcoming BMWs will also be autonomous.
 
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People are happy to give that up in gridlocked, overcrowded cities. And that's where it will all begin.
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More likely to remove the need to go into Towns in such large numbers.
Internet shopping and working at home being 2 examples of that. Also congestion charging in big cities like London have an impact, forcing people into Public transport.
I went into London a few months ago, arriving at 7.30am. The Waterloo area should, in my mind have been wall to wall cars, certainly was when I worked round there. There was hardly anything. I walked over an almost empty Westminster Bridge, and even Whitehall and Parliament Square were moving smoothly. There's nothing like the traffic there was.
 
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