DPF

markyboy.1967

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Mark Molloy
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I bought a little Citroen van just over a year ago( its now 33 months old) and recently the screen says"filter risk of clogging".Now i believe this is the DPF and a good run up a motorway for 30 mins around 3000rpm should clear it but it hasnt.Would a DPF issue be covered by the manufacturers warranty? The van has only covered 32,000 miles now and has Citroen history.Im just looking for info before i get to Citroen garage on Monday.
 
Not sure of the science of it all but if this as only appeared with the cold weather that could be the issue with the particulate,i would wait and see if a rise in temp solves the issue, had a similar problem that was intermittent with a higher mileage car, something to do with a additive to burn the particulate that didn't work in the extreme cold..eventually it disappeared
 
I think it depends on manufacturer. I have heard some claims being successful and other being sold at a 'cost price' to the customer as a goodwill gesture of sorts.

Usually the main dealer can force a 'regen' but thats not always the magic bullet.
 
you can get some additives to add to the fuel that increase the temp and burn of the ecess soot as well.
 
I had this with my Audi. It was actually a faulty sensor.

I had tried clearing it by taking a detour up the motorway several times with no luck so returned it to the garage and they fixed it. The car was 2 years old and i'd only had it a month. I would occasionally get DPF warning after that but a short trip on the motorway would clear it.
 
I would suggest giving the van a good "thrash" through the gears, over about 30 miles, so that the DPF can clean itself. This would involve taking the car up to the max in each gear - keeping within speed limits - then slowing and repeating.
I am so glad that our diesel does not have a DPF.

I learnt the above from a VAG forum.
 
I would suggest giving the van a good "thrash" through the gears, over about 30 miles, so that the DPF can clean itself. This would involve taking the car up to the max in each gear - keeping within speed limits - then slowing and repeating.
I am so glad that our diesel does not have a DPF.

I learnt the above from a VAG forum.
If my old Mondeo had a dpf, I wouldn't have got out of 3rd gear doing that.
 
If my old Mondeo had a dpf, I wouldn't have got out of 3rd gear doing that.

Exactly, that is the only way that you can possibly manage it. A couple of years ago I had a petrol Mondeo which was always close to the limit on emissions, so I used to bung a container of CAT cleaner in the tank, and then take it for a blast up the motorway in 3rd/4th gear, to thoroughly warm it up, and to burn off any sooty deposits. It used to creep through the MOT using that procedure.
 
Exactly, that is the only way that you can possibly manage it. A couple of years ago I had a petrol Mondeo which was always close to the limit on emissions, so I used to bung a container of CAT cleaner in the tank, and then take it for a blast up the motorway in 3rd/4th gear, to thoroughly warm it up, and to burn off any sooty deposits. It used to creep through the MOT using that procedure.
Good old Italian tuning. Modern petrol engines with direct injection suffer from the injectors getting coked up, it pays to give the car a blast from time to time to keep them clear, also it helps with the lambda sensors too which is the reason a lot of cars fail on emissions and not the actual emissions themselves.
 
I think some modern diesels like citroens also have thes ealoys fluid (crap spelling) tank that injects dpf cleaning fluid into the tank when you fill up with fuel
 
Good old Italian tuning. Modern petrol engines with direct injection suffer from the injectors getting coked up, it pays to give the car a blast from time to time to keep them clear, also it helps with the lambda sensors too which is the reason a lot of cars fail on emissions and not the actual emissions themselves.


As an owner of four Alfas over the years, I have used the "technique" from time to time, particularly on cars which may have been sitting in the garage for a while. I used to have an old Giulietta with the 1.8 twin cam engine and Dell Orto carbs, and the sound it made through the stainless exhaust in third gear at 7000 revs was amazing.
 
if it won't regenerate you'll need to try it on a decent run, how far do you normally drive it.

I have a 2013 doblo but as it spends most of its life on the motorway the light hasn't come on at all

the postman has the same van and it's on every other day
 
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I would suggest giving the van a good "thrash" through the gears, over about 30 miles, so that the DPF can clean itself. This would involve taking the car up to the max in each gear - keeping within speed limits - then slowing and repeating.
I am so glad that our diesel does not have a DPF.

I learnt the above from a VAG forum.

Sorry but that won't cure a DPF problem in a VAG and I'd be suprised if it worked in a s***reon. I had a 2.0 diesel VAG (remapped :) ) and the way to clear a light is to run the car at around 2500k rpm constantly for a good 10min run. Fortunately I never got a light, but you could always tell when it was doing a regen as the revs were higher at tickover.
 
Sorry but that won't cure a DPF problem in a VAG and I'd be suprised if it worked in a s***reon. I had a 2.0 diesel VAG (remapped :) ) and the way to clear a light is to run the car at around 2500k rpm constantly for a good 10min run. Fortunately I never got a light, but you could always tell when it was doing a regen as the revs were higher at tickover.
They don't perform a regen when idling. You MUST be going a steady speed for a while, which means a good 30min-60min motorway journey. Water temp has to be at the correct running temp, or above 75degrees if you have a dodgy thermostat stopping it reaching 90ish. Also the exhaust temp has to be higher than normal to help start the regen along with more than 10L of fuel. A long cruise in a gear lower than normal will help that.

I've had loads of people come to my work with clogged DPF's and a lot of people don't understand the criteria that has to be met for a regeneration to happen. Short stop/start journeys are a killer for them. The best way to solve the problem I cannot say because mods will just delete all my posts, again.
 
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I'm only 5.5 miles to work and the same back again. Every 2-3 weeks I'm up north but often run it in 5th gear so will need to re-think that and drop a gear or two for a while.

not nearly enough for a diesel, you need to be thinking about taking it for a run once a week/10 days with your short work journeys or you are going to continue to have problems. In fact, I would suggest that if that is going to be your expected life pattern for the forseeable, you might want to consider trading it in for a petrol if you can, even with a van there is enough choice out there now with good fuel consumption and RFL to make it a better option for you.
 
They don't perform a regen when idling. You MUST be going a steady speed for a while, which means a good 30min-60min motorway journey. Water temp has to be at the correct running temp, or above 75degrees if you have a dodgy thermostat stopping it reaching 90ish. Also the exhaust temp has to be higher than normal to help start the regen along with more than 10L of fuel. A long cruise in a gear lower than normal will help that.

I've had loads of people come to my work with clogged DPF's and a lot of people don't understand the criteria that has to be met for a regeneration to happen. Short stop/start journeys are a killer for them. The best way to solve the problem I cannot say because mods will just delete all my posts, again.

Never heard about the water temp being required, but I suppose it would be already at full temp by the time a regen starts.

Unfortunately, there is no indication in the car to warn you that a regen is taking place. If one starts whilst driving and you come to a stop, say at traffic lights, the car will be idling at around 1k rpm instead of below. Also, if you stop the car midway through a regen the cooling fans will stay on for a while, due to the exhaust being very hot. There's also a nice burning smell that drifts out and can be worrying to those who do not know.

The text below has been borrowed from another forum (also available elsewhere), it's essential reading for anyone with a DPF imo.

VAG DISESEL PARTICULATE FILTERS

Courtesy of David Bodily Volkswagen Technical Support Specialist

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)


Detailed below is important information outlining the function and features of the Diesel Particulate filter which all members of your team need to be aware of.

Diesel particulate filters are becoming more commonplace on diesel engines, particularly sizes 2.0L upwards. This is in order to reduce the exhaust emissions as required by European legislation.

The prime reason for a DPF is to reduce particulate matter entering the atmosphere. Particulate matter is found in the form of soot, which is produced during diesel combustion. The DPF traps most of the soot which would normally travel down the exhaust and into the atmosphere. The DPF can hold a certain amount of soot, but not a huge quantity and therefore it needs to go through a process called ‘regeneration’ in order to clear the soot loading. When the soot goes through a ‘regeneration’ process it will be converted to a much smaller amount of ash. The ash is non-removable. There are two types of ‘regeneration’, passive and active.

During long motorway journeys, passive regeneration will occur. This needs no intervention from the engine control unit. Due to the raised exhaust temperatures on a long journey (temperatures between 350 and 500°C), the procedure occurs slowly and continuously across the catalytic-coated (with platinum) DPF. The catalytic-coated DPF is situated close to the Engine, therefore the exhaust gas temperature is high enough (500°C) to ignite the soot particles. Due to this soot is burned-off and is converted into a smaller amount of ash.

Active ‘regeneration’ is when the ECU intervenes when the soot loading in the DPF is calculated to be 45%. The procedure lasts for about 5 – 10 minutes. Specific measures are taken by the ECU to raise the engine exhaust temperature to above 600°C, these include switching off the exhaust gas recirculation and increasing the fuel injection period to include a small injection after the main injection. The soot particles are oxidised at this temperature.

The ECU will trigger a regeneration process, if for some reason this is aborted, ie. customer slows down, stops etc, the process will be resumed when regeneration conditions are once again met, above 60km/h (38mph). This will continue for 15 minutes.

If after 2 attempts of 15 minutes, a successful regeneration has not been possible, the loading will increase. At 50% soot loading, the ECU will continue to maintain maximum exhaust temperatures of 600°C to 650°C to cause a regeneration process. The system will try to run a regeneration process for 15 minutes. If unsuccessful, the system will repeat this process for a further 15 minutes, if still unsuccessful, the DPF light on the driver display panel will then be lit.

The owners handbook states, the DPF symbol lights up to indicate that the diesel particulate filter has become obstructed with soot due to frequent short trips. When the warning lamp comes on, the driver should drive at a constant speed of at least 60 km/h for about 10 minutes. As a result of the increase in temperature the soot in the filter will be burned off. If the DPF symbol does not go out, the driver should contact an authorised Volkswagen repairer and have the fault rectified.

At 55% soot loading the DPF light is lit on driver display panel. At this point the customer should follow the advice in the handbook. If they ignore this information and continue driving the vehicle until the soot loading reaches 75% without successful regeneration, additional warning lamps will light up. At this point the customer will also be complaining of lack of power, etc.

At 75%, regeneration is still possible with the use of the VAS tester. Only when the loading is above 95%, is it necessary to replace the DPF unit.


Operating Status System Response


45% DPF Load Level 1
Normal Regeneration

50% DPF Load Level 2
Regeneration at maximum exhaust temperatures

55% DPF Load DPF lamp
Regeneration from 60 km/h onwards
("See operating manual")

75% DPF Load DPF, SYS and MI lamp
Torque limitation, EGR deactivation,

Regeneration via VAG tester only
95% DPF Load Replace the DPF Unit



The Warranty department has confirmed that if there is no fault on the vehicle and DPF regeneration has been unsuccessful due to the customers driving style and the customers failure to comply with the instructions in the handbook, DPF replacement will not be paid for by warranty.


Common causes for complaint


• Frequent short journeys – Regeneration conditions are not met.
Not recommended for sale in the Channel Islands and inner city driving.

• Customers who continue to drive the vehicle with DPF light on – Continued
driving with the DPF light on and without successful regeneration results in
excessive soot loading of the DPF, to a point where it is above 95% loaded.
At this point regeneration is not an option and replacement of the DPF is
necessary.

• Fault 18434 particle filter bank 1 malfunction – Common fault code. This does
not only relate to the DPF itself, but the entire exhaust gas handling system. This
can be caused by defective temperature sensors, pressure sensors, additive
system components (if applicable), poor connections, wiring issues, etc.



Important Information

• Before diagnosing a problem vehicle or attempting to perform an emergency
regeneration, it is important to obtain a full diagnostic log and read out relevant
measured value blocks. These MVB’s contain important information on the
condition of the DPF system and are essential in diagnosing the fault. When the
DPF light is illuminated, it does not necessarily mean that the DPF requires
regeneration. For further advice, please contact Technical Support with the
information from the diagnostic log and MVB data.

• If a problem vehicle arrives with the DPF light, the engine management light and
the emissions light on. If during your diagnosis and reading of relevant MVB’s,
you find that the soot loading exceeds 75% (but is still below 95%), an
emergency regeneration procedure must be performed with the VAS tester.
Further to this, the customer needs to be educated. They need to understand
why the lights have appeared on the dash panel. Their attention needs to be
brought to the owners handbook instructions, so that they are aware of what the
DPF light means and what to do when it appears. This should prevent
unnecessary repeat visits for regeneration purposes.
 
Never heard about the water temp being required, but I suppose it would be already at full temp by the time a regen starts.

Unfortunately, there is no indication in the car to warn you that a regen is taking place. If one starts whilst driving and you come to a stop, say at traffic lights, the car will be idling at around 1k rpm instead of below. Also, if you stop the car midway through a regen the cooling fans will stay on for a while, due to the exhaust being very hot. There's also a nice burning smell that drifts out and can be worrying to those who do not know.

The text below has been borrowed from another forum (also available elsewhere), it's essential reading for anyone with a DPF imo.

Yeh you're right water temp will be up to the correct temperature by the time a regen is needed, but a lot of cars suffer from dodgy thermostats (mostly BMW's) that can actually stop a regen no matter how long you drive for. Before I replaced my thermostats my car wouldn't get above 65degrees, minimum requirement for a DPF regen is 75. Also most BMW's don't have a water temp gauge on the dash so you have to access it by a hidden menu.

A warning that a regeneration is happening would be great. don;t know why no one has done it yet.

I think it's also something people need to be more educated on when buying a modern diesel. The way things are going petrol cars will soon be the cheaper option (between diesel and petrol that is)
 
I know what you mean about BMW's I have a two year old 1 series diesel. No water temp indicator in there, but the three series and above do afaik.

To be fair to the beamer, I have never been able to tell if it has done any form of regen since owning from new. With the VAG, it was pretty obvious and there would be at least one per 1k miles.
 
not nearly enough for a diesel, you need to be thinking about taking it for a run once a week/10 days with your short work journeys or you are going to continue to have problems. In fact, I would suggest that if that is going to be your expected life pattern for the forseeable, you might want to consider trading it in for a petrol if you can, even with a van there is enough choice out there now with good fuel consumption and RFL to make it a better option for you.
This :) I think the UK has gone overboard from almost a hatred towards anything diesel in the mid nineties to getting a diesel where it just doesn't make any logical sense...It is almost like people are "scared" of buying a petrol when it is for many a really good choice...
 
Good old Italian tuning. Modern petrol engines with direct injection suffer from the injectors getting coked up, it pays to give the car a blast from time to time to keep them clear, also it helps with the lambda sensors too which is the reason a lot of cars fail on emissions and not the actual emissions themselves.

THIS^^^

It may be possible also to force a DPF regen, dealer/garage can do this on a diagnostic system. I wouldn't imagine you'd need a new one, the car/van gives ample warning so this can be done rather than a new DPF needing fitted.
 
THIS^^^

It may be possible also to force a DPF regen, dealer/garage can do this on a diagnostic system. I wouldn't imagine you'd need a new one, the car/van gives ample warning so this can be done rather than a new DPF needing fitted.

aaaaaaand he's back lol. Indeed, it's hard to force a regen without the software.
 
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aaaaaaand he's back lol. Indeed, it's hard to force a regen without the software.

Early on you can force it with an italian tune but beyond a certain point it needs a forced regen, often requiring special diagnostics to do so.

IMHO the biggest problem is incomplete regen where extra fuel is added to force regen, and if the cars stopped this fuel can end up in the oil sump, oil level rises, oils diluted so its lubircation isn't as effective and worse still it can overfill the sump and the engine run on the oil/diesel mix and blow the engine.

Trick is regular oil changes and maybe fill only to 3/4 level so overfill is less likely, and change it often so your motor oil isn't diluted too much.
 
My car regens quite regularly and it was alarming the first time as you could feel the heat in the garage from the whole of the rear of the car and there was lots of pinking and tinkling as the metal in the exhaust system was expanding/contracting. I had to go and check as I thought there was something wrong, particularly as the NSR wheel area was hot (you could feel the heat coming from the wheel arch area)

I had an issue with the DPF once where it came up on the dash as a warning after I had done lots of short/stop/start journeys without a long run. I spoke to the main dealer (it was still in warranty) and they said it is a common problem due to the popularity of diesels but those cars only being used for short journeys.

The key is not to give it a blast but to run it at a constant speed/revs to trigger the regen. I had to run the car at something like 3000-4000rpm and 50-55mph in 4th gear for around 10 mins to force the region and it worked!!

Many manufacturers also view the DPF as a wear and tear part and I know that on mine its not far off £800-1000 for the part inc fitting :eek:
 
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Symptoms of active regeneration
During active regeneration you may notice the following symptoms:

  • Cooling fans running
  • Increased idle speed
  • Deactivation of automatic Stop/Start
  • A slight increase in fuel consumption
  • A hot, acrid smell from the exhaust.
  • Engine note change
 
I have an Octavia vRS TDI.

I find that, when I regen is necessary, there is a slight hesitancy in acceleration at 2-2.5k. This is the sweetspot for regen, holding the revs there provides the most effective regen conditions.

I've confirmed this while watching the percentage come down on diagnostics.

It may be specific to my car, or VAG PD engines, but maybe of use.
 
Ah I'd still be in second in the Tvr ;). ( it revs out at 40mph per gear)
 
Ah I'd still be in second in the Tvr ;). ( it revs out at 40mph per gear)
That's what I like :D My 330D will only get 50mph out of second, but get into 5th and 6th and it still climbs like it's in second. I took it to an abandoned air strip near Elgin and it got to 155mph no problem, not bad for a daily diesel;)
My project car on the other hand (still ongoing) probably won't be a good idea to put my foot down even in 5th:naughty:
 
That's what I like :D My 330D will only get 50mph out of second, but get into 5th and 6th and it still climbs like it's in second. I took it to an abandoned air strip near Elgin and it got to 155mph no problem, not bad for a daily diesel;)
My project car on the other hand (still ongoing) probably won't be a good idea to put my foot down even in 5th:naughty:

My old boss had one from new and had put 215k miles on it with out any issues when I left. Last I heard he was still running it.
 
So how do you know if a region is happening or not?

If you have a trip computer in your car keep an eye on your mpg on over run/foot off the loud peddle during normal everyday driving . Ours normally reads .999 but during regeneration it reads a lot lower also your mpg will decrease ,at idle ours normally sits at .1 I think during regen it goes up to .7 . Why cars haven't been fitted with a regeneration in progress warning just to let people know what's going on is beyond me .
 
My mazda 6 went in for its 24k service and came out smoking from the exhaust and so took it back. They said no issue and it came back not smoking. Makes me wonder if they triggered a regen as part of the service, despite not needing it? It has few local journeys.
 
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