Downgrade Dslr to micro 4/3?

I have taken the Olympus OMD route, and using it to take the same type & printed size photo's as I would have taken with my Pentax K7, I am impressed.

I do miss the f2.8 lens that lived on my Pentax, I became so used to it that every thing worked on auto-pilot. I am going to buy the 12-35mm m4/3 lens at some stage.

I wanted, interchangeable lenses, smaller size & lighter weight. In my situation the OMD suits. :thumbs:

Regards
 
I sold up shop when Sony released their NEX range and didnt look back for a long time...until I started finding my love for photography again. It kind of went downhill for me.

The lack of dedicated lenses was the biggest downside. The mount adaptors were then released but using dedicated Sony lenses was great but AF was horribly slow. The new mount adaptor came out but was scary expensive so opted to sit and MF. Then came the option of trying to use a flash but no specific connection for a regular flash just made it a deal breaker.

Was not interested in forking out again for the new NEX-7 (for now) and ended up back with a DSLR. Not planning to make the same decision again.

Did I regret the move? In a way, no. Whilst I was just taking photos for fun, it was a no brainer. I only came to regret it once I wanted to get more serious and have a go at more advance things like panning during motorsports and weddings.
 
The OM-D is expensive, and I very nearly didn't buy it because of this, but the way I saw it was, this was spending £1150 on the best M43 body and kit lens available, compared to say spending at least £2000+ on a 5Dmk2 with a 24-105L. The 5D2 is full frame but it's double the price and a load bigger and heavier, and the 5D2 is old now, if you wanted a 5D3, you're talking over £3k for the same setup.....so yes, the OM-D is expensive compared to other M43 bodies, but it's not really compared to top of the range SLR's.

But, without going off topic too much, OP is looking to change over to M43 because he obviously wants something that isn't as bulky, easier to take about everywhere, but doesn't compromise on image quality. He isn't a pro and isn't going to be pixel peeping and blowing up to giant prints, so I'd think most M43 bodies will deliver what he wants as long as he invests in some decent lenses. I'd also suggest to wait for the new sensor Oly bodies to come out if you're bothered about having the latest sensor but they might be quite pricey on release. Maybe consider a Panasonic G3 as they are meant to be great if you can't afford the OM-D, or for low budget kit, Jessops is doing the E-PL3 double zoom kit for £369 which is a very good deal imo.
 
arad85 said:
I would consider 30 x 40 as large prints and not the norm. What size would you consider you could print m4/3rds up to? Also, which camera was this? The newer sensors are supposedly much better than the old.
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Probably up to A4, (but even then I wasn't completely satisfied with some).

It was with the 12MP sensors, EP-L2 and G2, whilst the newer sensors are undeniably better they are stupidly priced and aren't a logical path of downgrade from the average DSLR (at least financially).
 
Id agree with Dave after having a few mirrorless cameras, the image quality is good but not good enough to replace my main system. I still have various mirrorless but those are for the odd day out, they could never replace my DSLR setup completely.
 
twist said:
Id agree with Dave after having a few mirrorless cameras, the image quality is good but not good enough to replace my main system. I still have various mirrorless but those are for the odd day out, they could never replace my DSLR setup completely.
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Well I've gone from 5D2 to m43, you don't need to spend big bucks, the G3/G5 quality is fantastic. If I wasn't happy I'd not have ditched my 5D2 period!
 
rjbell said:
The om-d looks overpriced already, but if the £650 suggested price of the xe-1 is correct. The om-d looks wildly expensive!
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XE-1 preorder price is £799, I guess £650 is a direct conversion from the $1000
and definitely not accurate.

I don't think the OM-D is overpriced although it is expensive and prices will fall. It does have advantages over the Fuji though especially as far as the system is concerned. You have two companies producing bodies and several more producing lenses while with Fuji you only depend on them.

No matter how committed Fuji is to the X system and admittedly they seem quite keen on pushing it you do depend on one manufacturer to provide bodies and lenses.

Having said that, I love the looks, the size and the sensor.

Personally I am holding off for a more functional / smaller mirrorless K mount camera from Pentax but I won't be for much longer. I love my K-5 and the little pancakes but it is still a large beast when compared to things like the XE-1 or anything from the M4/3 camp.
 
Dave1 said:
Probably up to A4, (but even then I wasn't completely satisfied with some).

It was with the 12MP sensors, EP-L2 and G2, whilst the newer sensors are undeniably better they are stupidly priced and aren't a logical path of downgrade from the average DSLR (at least financially).
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You can get kit GX-1 for 400, S/h for 250, G3 for even less and all these have the better newer 16MP sensors, even the G5 is around 500£. The only expensive option is the OM-D but I think there are reasons for that.
 
Dave1 said:
It was with the 12MP sensors, EP-L2 and G2, whilst the newer sensors are undeniably better they are stupidly priced and aren't a logical path of downgrade from the average DSLR (at least financially).
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Wot Julian says here:

ShrubMonkey said:
Well I've gone from 5D2 to m43, you don't need to spend big bucks, the G3/G5 quality is fantastic. If I wasn't happy I'd not have ditched my 5D2 period!
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I probably could have written that statement as I went5D2 -> G5 with decent lenses - 12-35 and waiting for 35-100 to be announced and possibly looking at OM-D/GH3.
 
ShrubMonkey said:
Well I've gone from 5D2 to m43, you don't need to spend big bucks, the G3/G5 quality is fantastic. If I wasn't happy I'd not have ditched my 5D2 period!
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Its a good thing we arent all the same then. Id like to be able to downgrade, save some money and convince myself that the quality of my mirrorless systems are equal to my DSLR setup, but I cant. If you can, thats great as youve probably saved a few quid.
 
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Kid_UK said:
I've never been to a wedding where the bride got down the aisle that fast...

;) :D
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Poor wording on my part although it would be interesting if that ever happened. :lol:
 
Dave1 said:
Yes, it must be user error,
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Well, I'm glad you admit it :D

My comment was not aimed specifically at you, but I must say that reading post after post on this and other sites that seem completely at odds with my own experience does lead me to believe that some (not necessarily you specifically) are far too quick and too willing to jump on the bandwaggon and blame kit.

My own experience is that my own lowly G1 can at low to middling ISO's produce whole image screen images or prints up to and including A3 which are to the average person and to indeed to me virtually indistinguishable from my 5D shots.

IMVHO when used to it's strengths and when processing shots to get the best out of them I can only tell 4/3 shots from 5D shots by pixel peeping or looking for clues in DoF or lens characteristics. As I've often said on this site, anyone believing that kit is the limiting factor should take a look at what other people are doing with the same kit and if you specifically can do that and still think that the kit is limiting you specifically then your comments are justified but if you're not getting the best out of your kit you perhaps need to revisit what you're doing.

PS. I've been shooting sonce the 60's so I can see how a relative newcomer like yourself struggles a bit :)
 
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vrapan said:
XE-1 preorder price is £799, I guess £650 is a direct conversion from the $1000
and definitely not accurate.

I don't think the OM-D is overpriced although it is expensive and prices will fall. It does have advantages over the Fuji though especially as far as the system is concerned. You have two companies producing bodies and several more producing lenses while with Fuji you only depend on them.

No matter how committed Fuji is to the X system and admittedly they seem quite keen on pushing it you do depend on one manufacturer to provide bodies and lenses.

Having said that, I love the looks, the size and the sensor.

Personally I am holding off for a more functional / smaller mirrorless K mount camera from Pentax but I won't be for much longer. I love my K-5 and the little pancakes but it is still a large beast when compared to things like the XE-1 or anything from the M4/3 camp.
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Quite the opposite, normally it's the pre-order price that's inaccurate, usually a couple of hundred extra. The price in Amateur Photographer is EURO800 so the price we get it will be a direct conversion of that. I'm not a fanboy i won't be buying one either but the new nex6 will be the same price too, so the om-d needs to drop in line.
 
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I have a e-pl3 with 14mm 2.5, 20mm 1.7, 45mm 1.8 and just got the 45-200mm for long end.

I did before tried and owned the GF2 with kit lens, G3 with 14-140mm. But I decided I like my current combo as my family snapshot setup.

My primes gives me that SLR like quailty that's hard to get from a point and shoot.

I still own a 5DII with L lenses but the micro 4/3 is so much lighter to carry for holiday!
 
Ricky said:
I have a e-pl3 with 14mm 2.5, 20mm 1.7, 45mm 1.8 and just got the 45-200mm for long end.

I did before tried and owned the GF2 with kit lens, G3 with 14-140mm. But I decided I like my current combo as my family snapshot setup.

My primes gives me that SLR like quailty that's hard to get from a point and shoot.

I still own a 5DII with L lenses but the micro 4/3 is so much lighter to carry for holiday!
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Hi Ricky, As you owned both, what do you think the E-PL3 does better than the GF2 ?
 
I am one step ahead of the OP as I have just sold my Nikon D90 but haven’t replaced it yet by a M4/3 (waiting for Photokina to have the full picture of what is coming this year). My experience with a DSLR is similar as well, it did great pics and I ve probably never used it to its full potential, on the other side it s pretty heavy/bulky.

But beyond the obvious dilemma size Vs quality, the one thing that decides me is the look. Not the look of the camera, the look that people have when they see someone with a DSLR. Zoom on, even the 18-105 kit lens made a DSLR standing out. The issue is not even restricted to street photography, taking the camera for a day out with friends or colleague and you are pretty quickly tagged as the photographer of the group. People are permanently conscious about it because it s a bloody imposing piece of equipment with a clear serious photography connotation (and I didn’t even have a D800 with a 70-200 VR). I was losing the candid situation I was trying to capture. It is personal feeling, my friend with a d90 love the attention and look he gets from people when he start shooting his DSLR in club and party.

On the top of that, there is the classic size burden debate of whether it s worth taking camera out for the day for going to the pub/see a friend ect... For me, it ended up in the wardrobe most of the time.

Lastly, the latest model of camera, especially the Fuji X-pro1 seems to be on par with what an high end DSLR can do in term of IQ (not autofocus speed obviously). As I don’t do sport shooting, the dilemma size/weight is all of a sudden completely changed.

On a separate note, it s quite astonishing that every technology has dramatically improved in size and performance such as TV, phone and computer but we are still shooting with the same sized DSLR than 40 years ago. It finally seems that the industry found a new technology to reduce size to a more modern standard without compromising performances (work in progress of course) but mirrorless camera are a huge turn in the industry IMVHO.
 
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I completely get what you are saying.

The problem i also have is people demand i take pictures of them when im holding my slr as they see me as the pro. The thing is i hate taking those standard -everyone stand infront of camera, look straight into it and say cheese- shots. I want to be able to walk around and capture the moment without getting pulled away by someone.

So i guess im now asking, if the IQ of an entry level SLR such as the d3000 could match say for example the IQ of the EPL-3.
 
asadhumayun85 said:
I completely get what you are saying.

The problem i also have is people demand i take pictures of them when im holding my slr as they see me as the pro. The thing is i hate taking those standard -everyone stand infront of camera, look straight into it and say cheese- shots. I want to be able to walk around and capture the moment without getting pulled away by someone.

So i guess im now asking, if the IQ of an entry level SLR such as the d3000 could match say for example the IQ of the EPL-3.
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Beyond the IQ, I think what you should consider is the user experience. For instance, some all the M43 have an EVF (electronic viewfinder instead of an optical one (OVF). So what you see before you press the shutter is a computer generated image which obvisouly will lag and struggle to adjust to changing frame & condition while in a DSLR you see directly through the lens. It s a very different experience, some people hate the EVF. That s one of the reason why I may go to Fuji as they equipped the X100 and the X-pro with an OVF.

Other thing to consider: Autofocus will be slower and you might not have many lenses/zoom available. Apparenlty it is also much easier to shoot with a DSLR (D90 - my first camera - was super easy to learn and use) than one of those Fuji with a retro control (that some people love because it feels just like the film camera)

Well as you can imagine, every camera will be different anyway, I guess you just identify your type of photography and your style.:geek:
 
Philuk1 said:
On a separate note, its quite astonishing that every technology has dramatically improved in size and performance such as TV, phone and computer but we are still shooting with the same sized DSLR than 40 years ago. It finally seems that the industry found a new technology to reduce size to a more modern standard without compromising performances (work in progress of course) but mirrorless camera are a huge turn in the industry IMVHO.
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I don't think the large size is because of a technology limitation, it is more to do with the size people want. How many DSLR users don't like the size of the entry level DSLRs claiming they are too small in the hand.

I prefer the size and shape of a DSLR and I preferred the 20D I had to the 1100D as it was more comfortable to hold due to the larger size.
I don't like the weight of DSLRs however.
 
Philuk1 said:
Beyond the IQ, I think what you should consider is the user experience. For instance, some all the M43 have an EVF (electronic viewfinder instead of an optical one (OVF). So what you see before you press the shutter is a computer generated image which obvisouly will lag and struggle to adjust to changing frame & condition while in a DSLR you see directly through the lens. It s a very different experience, some people hate the EVF. That s one of the reason why I may go to Fuji as they equipped the X100 and the X-pro with an OVF.
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Agree. I have just started using an X100 and if it only had the EVF I wouldn't have bought one. I haven't tried many EVFs and would hope that the Fuji one is a very bad example as I think it is awful. Too bright and unrealistic, laggy when moving camera around and grainy in low light

The OVF on the other hand is absolutely brilliant to use. Having full set of customisable info and a live histogram through viewfinder (coupled with image review straight after shot due to hybrid setup) means that to me this is a big improvement on any DSLR viewfinder I have tried.
 
ernesto said:
I don't think the large size is because of a technology limitation, it is more to do with the size people want. How many DSLR users don't like the size of the entry level DSLRs claiming they are too small in the hand.

I prefer the size and shape of a DSLR and I preferred the 20D I had to the 1100D as it was more comfortable to hold due to the larger size.
I don't like the weight of DSLRs however.
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I am quite certain that most of the bulk/size of the cameras has to do with the size of the components needed to go in them. You need a pentaprism or pentamirror, you still need a distance between the lenses and the sensor and also a lot of DSLRs because they are geared towards professionals try to fit as large batteries as possible.

So there is definitely some obstacles in miniaturising DSLRs that are very hard to overcome, if you could design a tiny DSLR with a great optical viewfinder then I think someone would have jumped on it by now.
 
vrapan said:
I am quite certain that most of the bulk/size of the cameras has to do with the size of the components needed to go in them. You need a pentaprism or pentamirror, you still need a distance between the lenses and the sensor and also a lot of DSLRs because they are geared towards professionals try to fit as large batteries as possible.

So there is definitely some obstacles in miniaturising DSLRs that are very hard to overcome, if you could design a tiny DSLR with a great optical viewfinder then I think someone would have jumped on it by now.
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Well, you can certainly design a smaller DSLR as the 1100D is small and does what a DSLR needs to do.
They are not what the 'pro' wants though are they as they may want a grip, they want an LCD screen etc,. and they also need a good size and weight to balance with a heavy lens on it.
 
Spy said:
Hi Ricky, As you owned both, what do you think the E-PL3 does better than the GF2 ?
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I started off with GF2, which was good but I had a US model which means the video was on NTSC.

I find I like the jpegs SOOC more from e-pl3 than both GF2/G3.

As I'm using it as a super point and shoot, I find e-pl3 great and even suit my wife!

I did very nearly got the OMD but decide I would wait for the OMD v2.
 
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I went the route of D80 to D300 to Canon Bridge to D90 to a GX1.

The D80 was great and I learnt a shed load. I was seduced by a D300 but is was all so heavy but the quality was good. Too heavy, I got the bridge and everytime I looked at the pictures I regretted getting rid of the D80 so got a D90.

The D90 was okay but I had gotten used to carrying the bridge. The pictures were fine - but I needed a rucksack for all the kit. I got the Panasonic GX1.

The GX1 is light, a range of lenses (14mm, 14-42mm, 45-200mm), an LVF2, a flash and a monopod are in a bag the size I used to have for the D90. I don't regret the swap. I don't lug a rucksack. The pictures are as good as most I ever got from the Nikons.

I'm not a pro (very much not a pro). I enjoy taking photos - and I intend to keep the GX1 a long long time. I did think at the outset that had I not had experience with the DSLRs I would have serious issues using the GX1 as I think they are harder to use than certainly the Nikons were.
 
So I'm starting to look at the market but there are too many options

Budget would be about 300-350.
 
bl0at3r said:
So all your m43 gear is gone Dave?
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ShrubMonkey said:
Wow, so you only have the RX100 now?
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Yes to both, I call it 'FREEDOM'.

Now I can go out and enjoy my surroundings without waiting untill I get home and look at the pictures to see where I've been.

The RX 100 is a camera I've been waiting for......A luxury pocket sized P&S with an excellent sensor (1 inch) and with full control if required.

Take a look here, scroll down to the bottom for 'Large' images, taken by A Another with his RX100.
http://www.mu-43.com/f76/dslr-m4-3-rx100-loving-33209/
 
Agree, I have always opted for freedom. Even when using a DSLR I only ever owned one lens at a time.
You don't have to have a bag full of lenses, flashes and all other sorts of kit to go out and take photos.
 
Very true but I personally like a VF and I don't enjoy shooting without one so that limits my choices, really.
 
I'm using a D90 at the moment and have been looking for a smaller lighter camera recently. One option I thought about was the Nikon 1 J2 with the FT-1 mount. The reason behind that thought was that with the optional F-mount you can use existing Nikkor AF-S lenses. It's a bit pricey combination but I liked having the ability to use existing lenses.

It's just a thought so I hope it's not a silly one!
 
I'm thinking of following Dave and selling our GX1, OM-D and various lenses and grabbing an RX100. We went micro 4/3 because we wanted smaller kit and to save some money (both important with an 18 month old running around!) but we've still got quite an expensive collection and when you've got a small person to chase around it really is a pain swapping lenses so we rarely do. All of which makes me think we are better off with a good compact and the money saved can go towards something else.
 
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