Doubling your Power with Godox

[Ecco]

What you were doing did not bypass internal trigger,

Mike

So i take it those XTR receivers will bypass the internal trigger automatically or is their a setting on the AD600's to turn it off?

 

[HoppyUK]

So i take it those XTR receivers will bypass the internal trigger automatically or is their a setting on the AD600's to turn it off?

Not sure, maybe. I disabled the AD600's internal receiver by switching the unit to optical slave mode.

 

[mike weeks]

So i take it those XTR receivers will bypass the internal trigger automatically or is their a setting on the AD600's to turn it off?

There is a setting, you simply press the mode button until you put it in slave mode as in no lightning bolt or lollipop top left of LCD

Mike

 

[Ecco]

Got it guys. It's the wireless button and when you press it thats when its ready to be used by the XTR-16. I will order them tonight and report back with my results once tested. Thanks again for everyones input

 

[sk66]

I just checked, taping over the TTL pin puts the trigger/flash into dumb/manual mode preventing auto HSS, but the camera does not recognize that a flash/trigger is attached. All pins must have connectivity for the camera to recognize the trigger/flash and activate the HSS timing, but this also enables the auto HSS function.
So it does look like a manual trigger (XTR-16) attached to the flash is the only way to get it to do tail sync. You do have to disable the internal radio trigger as well.

 

[HoppyUK]

Got it guys. It's the wireless button and when you press it thats when its ready to be used by the XTR-16. I will order them tonight and report back with my results once tested. Thanks again for everyones input

Another way of doing it, if you just wanted to get it working, would be to pop a speedlight into the X1's pass-through hot-shoe (in manual, low power or bounced), then switch the AD600 to optical slave mode. Adjust X1's delay off-set.

 

[sk66]

Another way of doing it, if you just wanted to get it working, would be to pop a speedlight into the X1's pass-through hot-shoe (in manual, low power or bounced), then switch the AD600 to optical slave mode. Adjust X1's delay off-set.

I thought about that... but then I think the flash would need to be TTL and firing in HSS w/ limited power control(?). I wonder if it could work with a manual/dumb flash )or TTL) and the X1T in single pin mode?

The XTR16 makes the most sense in an all Godox setup. But if there is a mix of other lights in the kit ,maybe piggybacking a cheap manual transmitter/trigger like you did would make more sense.

 

[HoppyUK]

I thought about that... but then I think the flash would need to be TTL and firing in HSS w/ limited power control(?). I wonder if it could work with a manual/dumb flash )or TTL) and the X1T in single pin mode?

The XTR16 makes the most sense in an all Godox setup. But if there is a mix of other lights in the kit ,maybe piggybacking a cheap manual transmitter/trigger like you did would make more sense.

Yes, I wondered about that - the flash in HSS mode or not. I think that depends on the trigger/camera brand and whether or not the centre-pin is active.

It would work, but hardly the best way - I suggested it just so Craig could give it a go now. XTR16 is defo the neatest and easiest option. Quite a sweet and practical workaround in fact

 

[Ecco]

Thanks for your help guys. I haven't got a speedlight anymore so I can't test that theory HoppyUK I have ordered 2 XTR16's though and they will be arriving tomorrow so I will report back. I take it the X1TN trigger doesn't need to be connected via a pc sync cord does it? I'm hoping it can just go on the hotshoe of the camera and just work from there. Any ideas about that? Don't know whether to order a sync cable. Thanks

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks for your help guys. I haven't got a speedlight anymore so I can't test that theory HoppyUK I have ordered 2 XTR16's though and they will be arriving tomorrow so I will report back. I take it the X1TN trigger doesn't need to be connected via a pc sync cord does it? I'm hoping it can just go on the hotshoe of the camera and just work from there. Any ideas about that? Don't know whether to order a sync cable. Thanks

No PC cord needed. In fact, not sure if this is always 100% true, but I think you only get normal x-sync out of the PC socket and HSS is exclusively a hot-shoe thing. Just need to ensure that the XTR is on the same channel as the AD600, and that the AD600 will not fire off the X1 - either by switching to a different channel, or disabling the AD600's internal receiver (which may happen automatically when you plug in the XTR).

Either way it's pretty easy.

 

[Ecco]

Thanks a lot for this HoppyUK. Will report back tomorrow evening with my own results. Once again thanks ever so much

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks a lot for this HoppyUK. Will report back tomorrow evening with my own results. Once again thanks ever so much

It's easy when you know how, but let's not speak too soon

I guess you're aware of the uneven brightness you get up the frame with tail-hypersync? To see what you're getting, just fire the flash at a plain wall and you'll have a stop or two brighter at the bottom as the shutter tracks the fading tail of the flash pulse. It varies by camera model and by shutter speed too, but your D700 has quite a fast shutter action which helps reduce it. It can be a price worth paying when max brightness is paramount.

In daylight, you'll most likely hardly notice it as the ambient light evens things out quite effectively, but if it's a problem you can sometimes balance things out by using the inverse square law when the strobe is positioned quite close. Basically if you position the strobe so it's nearest the top/pentaprism side of the camera, and experiment with distances a bit, you can get ISL fall-off to cancel out the fading flash. A softbox is probably the weapon of choice for this, to get the distance in the right zone.

 

[Ecco]

Yeh the uneven brightness I know about. I mainly need to shoot at the higher shutter speeds too so it might be even more of an issue. I shoot fast action so I depend upon really fast shutter speeds and having to place the flashes further away. Thats the reason every stop of light counts for me HoppyUK.

I will have a little play when the receivers arrive later and show you my results. Have you been quite successful with this method yourself?

 

[mike weeks]

Yeh the uneven brightness I know about. I mainly need to shoot at the higher shutter speeds too so it might be even more of an issue. I shoot fast action so I depend upon really fast shutter speeds and having to place the flashes further away. Thats the reason every stop of light counts for me HoppyUK.

I will have a little play when the receivers arrive later and show you my results. Have you been quite successful with this method yourself?

Might be able to give some more input if we know what sport

Mike

 

[Ecco]

Oh I shoot a lot of extreme sports Mike. A little bit of blur is ok but I just love sharp images so I mainly shoot at 1/4000th or above in HSS and it's good. I just want as much output as I can because as you might know I can't always have my flashes close

 

[Ecco]

You guys are absolutely amazing! Just tested it out and it seems like it's a little bit more than a stop of light between HS and HSS. I'm going to put the images into lightroom and compare properly but this hack or tweak is fantastic! That stop is going to help out so much!! THANKYOU!!!!

I will post up the images soon and show you

 

[mike weeks]

You guys are absolutely amazing! Just tested it out and it seems like it's a little bit more than a stop of light between HS and HSS. I'm going to put the images into lightroom and compare properly but this hack or tweak is fantastic! That stop is going to help out so much!! THANKYOU!!!!

I will post up the images soon and show you

I take no credit other than testing before posting something I had read elsewhere. The theory behind it is relatively simple. Yey to try @HoppyUK 's twin head hack but in theory it should light up anything very brightly. as a side note the H1200B is far more efficient than the H600B

Mike

 

[sk66]

I take no credit other than testing before posting something I had read elsewhere. The theory behind it is relatively simple. Yey to try @HoppyUK 's twin head hack but in theory it should light up anything very brightly. as a side note the H1200B is far more efficient than the H600B

Mike

I think the twin head hack would require two X1T's piggybacked... one set to a greater delay than the other. On one hand the max brightness would be slightly lower because the output doesn't completely overlay. On the other hand you get more even coverage...

 

[Ecco]

1/2

 

[Ecco]

2/2

 

[Ecco]

The 1st image is taken at sync speed 1/250th f16. I then go up shutter by a stop each time and down the aperture by a stop too. Hope that makes sense but it seems with this hack you actually gain a little bit of light as you go up. Also as you can see by the 1/8000th f2.8 image there doesn't seem to be any black lines coming through at all which is amazing! WOW!!

 

[Ecco]

I hope these images make sense too. The 1st was shot with HS at 1/8000th f5.6. The second was shot with HSS at exactly the same settings and the 3rd image i added 2 stops of exposure to the HSS image to get it where the HS image is at. 2 STOPS more light than HSS!! Incredible! Thankyou guys!!

 

[sk66]

it seems with this hack you actually gain a little bit of light as you go up.

The only reason I can see for that is because the entire image is recorded at the flash peak with less ambient being recorded.

I hope these images make sense too.

I don't understand why the first two images are so different if they were taken exactly the same...

 

[mike weeks]

I think the twin head hack would require two X1T's piggybacked... one set to a greater delay than the other. On one hand the max brightness would be slightly lower because the output doesn't completely overlay. On the other hand you get more even coverage...

I think an X1T with an X16 maybe able to do the job but need to test if the passthrough is subject to the same delay setting as set in the X1

Mike

 

[Ecco]

The only reason I can see for that is because the entire image is recorded at the flash peak with less ambient being recorded.

I don't understand why the first two images are so different if they were taken exactly the same...

Sorry it might just be the way i'm explaining it. The first image is taken with the hacked hypersync (HS) method and the second image is just using the built in high speed sync (HSS) of the AD600. No settings on the camera changed at all but yet there is a clear near 2 stop difference. So this proves that HS is much more efficient than HSS but we already knew that anyway

 

[mike weeks]

I don't understand why the first two images are so different if they were taken exactly the same...

First image using the Tail Sync hack as discussed, 2nd image using standard HSS (what did not change was camera settings)

Mike

 

[mike weeks]

Sorry it might just be the way i'm explaining it. The first image is taken with the hacked hypersync (HS) method and the second image is just using the built in high speed sync (HSS) of the AD600. No settings on the camera changed at all but yet there is a clear near 2 stop difference. So this proves that HS is much more efficient than HSS but we already knew that anyway

Remember that this is a full power trick only. at lower power settings it will fail

mike

 

[sk66]

First image using the Tail Sync hack as discussed, 2nd image using standard HSS (what did not change was camera settings)

Mike

Ah, I missed the difference between HS/HSS as typed...

 

[Ecco]

Remember that this is a full power trick only. at lower power settings it will fail

mike

Yes and thats why it's so perfect for me. I will only be using this outdoors when it is really bright and i'm struggling with HSS at full power. For everything else HSS will be fine. This is really fantastic for what i do! So glad it works!

 

[Ecco]

Another thing I found out too for anyone wanting to do this in the future is that the AD600 doesn't need to be in slave mode so that's one less step

 

[HoppyUK]

I hope these images make sense too. The 1st was shot with HS at 1/8000th f5.6. The second was shot with HSS at exactly the same settings and the 3rd image i added 2 stops of exposure to the HSS image to get it where the HS image is at. 2 STOPS more light than HSS!! Incredible! Thankyou guys!!

First and third are the same image aren't they? But two stops extra brightness doesn't sound unreasonable, depends at which point in the frame - top or bottom or middle - where you're making the comparison. Experiment with off-set timing for the best result. It's great technique for outdoors action in daylight, but try it in a darkened studio with a plain background and the downsides begin to show.

And yes, exposures will vary with shutter speed as the shutter samples different points of the flash output curve. Likewise, you can adjust the timing off-set to reduce fading up the frame but with lower overall brightness, and vice versa.

 

[Ecco]

HoppyUK I think you could be right now that i'm looking at it. Maybe I uploaded the wrong one. Anyway it was very close to 2 stops that I had to put in to make it match the HS method. Yeh this technique will never be used in a dark studio for me and only out in the sun when I am forced to shoot during the middle of the day. This is an example of HSS at 1/8000th shutter in the middle of the day. I had to have the flashes really close that they nearly came in the frame. So this trick will help me to be able to put the flashes a little further back. Heres the photo...

 

[Ecco]

So i did another little test outside to see what HSS vs HS was like and i'm still pulling nearly 2 stops of light more on my subject using HS over HSS. That means for the stuff i shoot i can pull the lightstands double the distance back and get near enough the same exposure on my riders than with HSS. Wow! Can't wait for drier and warmer days to get out and test this out with a proper subject

 

[Ecco]

Guys sorry to bring this post back up but just wondering if i was to buy a PW Flex TT5 and a couple of PW X's would it give me exactly the same results as this using hypersync? Just want to change as reliability isn't perfect with the XTR 16's or the X1Tn. Thanks in advance

 

[HoppyUK]

Guys sorry to bring this post back up but just wondering if i was to buy a PW Flex TT5 and a couple of PW X's would it give me exactly the same results as this using hypersync? Just want to change as reliability isn't perfect with the XTR 16's or the X1Tn. Thanks in advance

You can do most things if you put your mind to it, but may well end up with a cumbersome-complex-expensive-unreliable system. Or you may get lucky

But what's this unreliability? What exactly are you wanting to do, what are you doing it with, and what's not working?

 

[Phil V]

Guys sorry to bring this post back up but just wondering if i was to buy a PW Flex TT5 and a couple of PW X's would it give me exactly the same results as this using hypersync? Just want to change as reliability isn't perfect with the XTR 16's or the X1Tn. Thanks in advance

Without more specific clues to your problems it’s difficult to advise for sure.

All I’ll say is that the PW flex are probably the least reliable ‘branded’ triggers in the UK. I sold mine after several frustrating weddings where I had 100% failures due to interference*.

I have never experienced radio failure with Yongnuo or Godox triggers.

* research tells me that the US versions never suffered from interference from other sources, except some Canon flashguns where PW sold a ‘sock’ for the flash to combat the issue. I couldn’t recommend the PW flex in 2018 as they’re effectively the worst of both worlds (unreliable and expensive)

 

[Ecco]

Just misfires really guys. I actually think now it's more of the connection between the x1tn and the hotshoe of my d700 as when I press test on the trigger it works everytime but not actually when I press the shutter on the camera. More testing required I think. Thanks guys

 

[HoppyUK]

Just misfires really guys. I actually think now it's more of the connection between the x1tn and the hotshoe of my d700 as when I press test on the trigger it works everytime but not actually when I press the shutter on the camera. More testing required I think. Thanks guys

Intermittent firing is usually a connection issue, especially when the camera is turned vertical. Clean all contacts and dust out hot-shoe, and make sure everything is properly seated.

 

[davidparryphoto]

Hello from Australia,
Firstly, thank you for all the great information in this thread!
I have played around with my Godox kit and i wanted to post my findings and ask a question as well.
I think i have been able to do a Hypersync of sorts by doing the following:
D750 with an Xpro triggering a Godox tt600 in HSS mode - > an AD600 in slave mode at full power (being triggered by the tt600 flash. It appears that at 1/4000 (my cameras max shutter speed) I am getting more light from the AD600 in comparison to firing it in HSS mode.

My questions are:
1. I notice the above posts talk about adding a flash delay, The Xpro doesn't have that option (that I can find) so am I potentially losing some light by not having a delay or given I am not seeing banding is it not an issue?
2. If I buy a XTR16 receiver (so I can do away with firing a Speedlight to trigger the AD600) would i be able to trigger it with the xpro trigger and if so would there be an issue given there is no delay setting on the Xpro?

Thanks in advance.
Dave

 

[HoppyUK]

Hello from Australia,
Firstly, thank you for all the great information in this thread!
I have played around with my Godox kit and i wanted to post my findings and ask a question as well.
I think i have been able to do a Hypersync of sorts by doing the following:
D750 with an Xpro triggering a Godox tt600 in HSS mode - > an AD600 in slave mode at full power (being triggered by the tt600 flash. It appears that at 1/4000 (my cameras max shutter speed) I am getting more light from the AD600 in comparison to firing it in HSS mode.

My questions are:
1. I notice the above posts talk about adding a flash delay, The Xpro doesn't have that option (that I can find) so am I potentially losing some light by not having a delay or given I am not seeing banding is it not an issue?
2. If I buy a XTR16 receiver (so I can do away with firing a Speedlight to trigger the AD600) would i be able to trigger it with the xpro trigger and if so would there be an issue given there is no delay setting on the Xpro?

Thanks in advance.
Dave

From memory, I think you're right - surprisingly, the XPro trigger* doesn't have a sync timing off-set feature, and that's really essential for getting the most out of tail-hypersync. Both the XT32 and X1 triggers do though, and the X1 also has the advantage of a pass-through hot-shoe which is handy for this kind of experimentation.

*I don't have one to check, but I can't see it in the listed specs