Do's and Don'ts - long lens

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I have recently bought a Sigma 150-500mm to shooot mostly widlife/Birds etc

I cant seem to nail the shot in respect of them being tack sharp,

I do get some nice shots ccasionally Im not a complete looser

but the ratio is definatley more loosers than keepers

I shoot in Shutter speed priority mode and try to keep the shutter speed as high as possible which on some days means pushing the iso to 800)+ the OS is set to No1- & when using a tripod I have the OS turned off

Is there a better method??? - Manualor Programme- I use a sony a700 body at present 12 Megapixels- although I am about to update to a newer sony a57 a65 or a77 not really made up my mind yet

any help would be gratefully received

Thanks guys

Les :D
 
Sutter speed isn't everything, you don't mention what aperture you're using and I suspect this might be the issue.

For info, the depth of field at 30ft with a 500mm at f6.3 is about 3 inches.

The other question is 'is your gear up to it'?

Are you using a tripod?
 
Switch to aperture priority mode and use the ISO to keep the shutter speed up.

Also, show us some samples of where you have problems, easier to determine what the problem is when we can see it...
 
What sort of distances do you usually shoot at Lez? You have to remember that any slight vibration and I mean slight will be magnified. I guess you probably know that but at close range and with a narrow dof it can produce shots that are not as sharp as you would have hoped. Also what is your PP method? All of your pics have the Exif stripped and it cannot be found on your Flickr page either. As for camera settings Lez I cannot advise really, it may well just be a small mixture of technique, processing, and camera settings which is the cause :shrug:
 
I'd get a monopod and see if that makes much of a difference.

You can hand hold at slower shutter speeds and get sharp shots but you have to concentrate on being very still and very careful which is hard to do if whatever your photographing is rushing around like a blue arsed fly.

If DOF is down to a few inches on a frame filler then you have to be extra careful with focussing and continuous AF can be a devil for slipping off your intended subject. I often find single shot is more reliable as you can fix focus to a rough distance and catch the subject coming back through that plane of focus. I should probably make use of the limit switch that is on some of my lenses more often... helps stop the whirring back and forth over the entire focal range :)
 
Thanks guys

I shoot at all distances and try to use a tripod or monopod if I can, although its not always practical, locations etc

I also shoot in continuous focus on the drive so I can fire of a burst if required, AF is also used and centre spot being the bias for focusing

The aperture at 500mm withg iso around then 800 mark is usually f6.7 - f7.1 sometimes f8
and higher

I shoot with a sony a700 so the gear is up to the job, maybe its just me :cuckoo:

I will try the Aperture Prioity mode method and adjust the iso to keep the shutter speed up, see how I get on
Rich, I will apply the filter to Flickr to enable exif to be displayed, just for you

eg of the un sharp focusing

Young Heron 2 by Lez325, on Flickr


Les :thumbs:
 
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RichardtheSane said:
Switch to aperture priority mode and use the ISO to keep the shutter speed up.

Also, show us some samples of where you have problems, easier to determine what the problem is when we can see it...
Click to expand...

what would the best aperture be then????

Les :thumbs:
 
I'm going to say something that maybe daft, have you tried taking a shot of say an soft toy or Maybe an apple etc at the rough distance that your bird shots are using tripod and remote release/timer to rule out movement shake etc do this with af and then mf to check that the lens is focusing correctly and then see if they are sharp
 
If you are shooting bursts you may want to consider using back button focus, to prevent the lens refocussing after first aquisition. I use Servo all the time and back button, for a single shot just a quick dab, for tracking birds in flight just hold it. Much easier to seperate the focusing from the shutter function.
 
Equally you might not - personally I hate BB focus because I keep forgetting to focus before i take the shot , and its a bitch to keep up with action. Try it an see but it isnt for everyone
 
I have this lens and try and keep it at f8 to keep the dof wider and improve focus hit rate. Pretty much always use the IS when shooting wildlife, but I tend to team it with a monopod for any sports I shoot, I find after a couple of hours the shots can start to get a bit of shake in them without it.
 
I've got one of these and use it handheld nearly all the time. I have a very good keeper rate with it, from my 7D, 5D2 and 5D3. I went out to a wildlife park a few weeks ago with my 5D3 and just this lens and took just under 900 photos in a day and have still got 862 of them on my drive. Most of them are good, but more than a few are superbly sharp and some 60+ of those have been added to my digital photo frame for display. A lot of the photos were taken wide open at f6.3, but the best ones are around f8. I even got some shots of a waterfall handheld at 1/10sec and they were very usable.
 
Lez325 said:
what would the best aperture be then????

Les :thumbs:
Click to expand...

When I got mine I was told that the "sweet spot" was between f8 and f11.

.....and much sharper if I use a monopod or tripod too!

Heather
 
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How much sharpening are you adding, Les? All digital images are slightly soft simply as a function of the processing - nothing to do with kit. So you need to add sharpening, either in-camera or when processing (or a combination).
 
Ive not as yet tried the lens with a tripod / Monopod although I do own both :lol:

Maybe thats the problem with it being a heavy lens :shake:

I will try the soft toy approch Andrew - good idea that is, thank you :clap:

Im thinking I just need practice, tried a few shots today shooting in ,manual f8 @ 500th/sec iso 400, seemed to come out ok but not pin sharp

John, I dont add sharpening if I can avoid it, I shall also give this a try, shame I have no one close enought to have a look at my technique or lack of and point me in the right direction, londaon camera exchange and sell it lol

Thanks for the help guys, its appreciated, as Im slowly loosing the will to live

latest test shot from this morning hand held- exif intact on Flickr
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=4657598#post4657598





Les :help:
 
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billybob99 said:
I'm going to say something that maybe daft, have you tried taking a shot of say an soft toy or Maybe an apple etc at the rough distance that your bird shots are using tripod and remote release/timer to rule out movement shake etc do this with af and then mf to check that the lens is focusing correctly and then see if they are sharp
Click to expand...

Cracking Idea Andrew- I'll give that a go tomorrow after work and let you know the results

Les :D
 
Thank you Neil, I'll have a read after lunch, it looks to be just what I need

Les :thumbs:
 
I'd also try some jpgs from the camera and experiment with default sharpness and a few of the higher settings with no other edits to see how they look too.

What RAW processing software do you use?
 
Lez325 said:
John, I dont add sharpening if I can avoid it, I shall also give this a try, shame I have no one close enought to have a look at my technique or lack of and point me in the right direction, londaon camera exchange and sell it lol

Thanks for the help guys, its appreciated, as Im slowly loosing the will to live

latest test shot from this morning hand held- exif intact on Flickr
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=4657598#post4657598

.
Les :help:
Click to expand...

Any reason for this? Pretty much every shot I take gets some sharpening. And Glastonbury was quite close to Taunton last time I looked...

The egret shot looks like blur/shake rather than missed focus.
 
jon ryan said:
The egret shot looks like blur/shake rather than missed focus.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that - the head and eye seem pretty sharp to me, but I can definitely see fringing around the beak - looks like CA ?
 
BeeJayEff said:
I'm not so sure about that - the head and eye seem pretty sharp to me, but I can definitely see fringing around the beak - looks like CA ?
Click to expand...

Could be. :shrug: It may be just that the lens is a little beyond its capabilities.
 
jon ryan said:
Any reason for this? Pretty much every shot I take gets some sharpening. And Glastonbury was quite close to Taunton last time I looked...

The egret shot looks like blur/shake rather than missed focus.
Click to expand...

Maybe its just me and the lens is fine- will do some tests as suggested, tripod and remote shutter etc- using MF & AF and see what we get in respect of sharpness etc.

Jon, Idid'nt realise you were in Glastonbury :eek: Billybob has PM'd me and we are trying to arrange an evening meet to see whats what as Andrew uses a sony a580, so the 150-500mm will fit his camera


Heather, If you click on the image in Flickr, look to the right and click on the camera details Sony DSLR A700- then EXIF will be diplayed :thumbs:

Andrew, I await your contact to arrange a meet and Im most grateful

Rich, You have PM fella

Thanks for all the advice and comments guys


Les :D
 
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Nice thread, I've just picked up its little brother the 120-400mm, some useful tips here, subscribed incase there's more.

Matt

9237f9bd.jpg


f7cebd72.jpg
 
Lez, was that heron shot from Swell woods??

I'm not far from Taunton & have a 7D with the Sigma 150-500, if you want to meet up some time there's loads of excellent RSPB reserves nearby?

I get the same probs with my sigma & I reckon it's mostly my (lack of) technique .

Steve
 
The questions I'd like answered, through a bit of controlled testing, are....

1. Is the lens capable of producing a sharp image - i.e. is it optically sound?

2. Is the body/lens combination focusing accurately?

From the heron image I think there may be evidence of some front focusing. At 800 ISO I also have a suspicion that noise and noise reduction are compromising results, and having a soft image which needs oversharpening (just look at the halos around the branches) is not helping. If you don't determine the performance capabilities of the equipment through some controlled tests I think you will be left frustrated with results which technique will not be able to address.

It's a shame the camera does not have live view, but I'd be performing an AF test in good light, outdoors, with a sturdy tripod at around 20m distance and using a contrasty flat target (not angled) for focusing and an angled ruler from which to judge the focus results. Something like this would be a good start. If the text is not sharp then you can't expect live animals to look sharp either.

20091104_173005_31_LR.jpg


Another setup, for indoor testing of shorter lenses, but again with the same design principles - flat target with sharp, contrasty details, set square to the camera and an angled scale from which to determine the sharpest point of focus relative to the intended focus distance.

20100220_161721_0120_LR.jpg


Even without setting up such a test, you can get a rough idea, although not quite ideal, by focusing at something like a brick wall from an angle. The angle could produce a small margin for focus error, which is why it is not the best approach for proper AF testing, but if the DOF shows the focus to be well away from intended distance then you at least have one answer. Then, if it turns out that the focus is adrift, you will still hopefully find a part of the wall that is well focused and from that you can see how sharp a properly focused part of the image can be. If nothing is properly sharp then you have a soft lens. If the DOF band is sharp, but not where you expect it to be then you have a focus calibration problem. If the focus is where you expect and it is good and sharp then your problem is probably with technique.

All this testing should be performed with a good, solid tripod on firm ground, in good light, at maximum aperture and 100 ISO. Use mirror lockup and a timed or remote release. I'd keep the distance for testing at around 20m if possible, especially if checking the long end of the lens.

Oh, and I'd recommend shooting raw so that you preserve your options with respect to how much NR and sharpening is applied to each image, not to mention all the other benefits.
 
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Interesting Tim :thumbs: a dumb question probably :suspect: does it matter what angle the ruler is, I am thinking not :shrug:
 
The ruler just gives some detail that allows you to check whereabouts the sharpest point is. The angle is not especially critical in that you don't need to really measure how far back or front focused things might be in absolute terms, just be able to see it and adjust for it. About 45 degrees is a fair enough sort of angle, but really not crucial. Anything that lets you see what you need to see is fine.

It doesn't even need to be a ruler, except that is a very convenient thing if you have one. You could equally well use some news print or similar, laid along an angled support - a book, plank, whatever is handy and least effort. Anything with sufficient detail to judge sharpness and its position relative to the target is all you need.
 
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tdodd said:
The ruler just gives some detail that allows you to check whereabouts the sharpest point is. The angle is not especially critical in that you don't need to really measure how far back or front focused things might be in absolute terms, just be able to see it and adjust for it. About 45 degrees is a fair enough sort of angle, but really not crucial. Anything that lets you see what you need to see is fine.

It doesn't even need to be a ruler, except that is a very convenient thing if you have one. You could equally well use some news print or similar, laid along an angled support - a book, plank, whatever is handy and least effort. Anything with sufficient detail to judge sharpness and its position relative to the target is all you need.
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Thank you Tim :thumbs:
 
No Probs.

While I can't say I'm a fan of the price, this commercial product is a perfect illustration of the sort of setup I simulate with simple household items....

http://michaeltapesdesign.com/lensalign.html

There should be some videos kicking around on the website which show how to use it.

Personally I'm now using software to make my focus calibration adjustments - http://reikan.co.uk/focal/ - so I've done away with the box and ruler type setup, but it can still be a handy and cheap way to check your gear out.

Of course, with a 40D you don't actually have the option to make such adjustments for yourself, but at least with the manual method you can determine whether or not you have a problem and, if you do, how significant it is and in which direction. That might be something you can compensate for, or simply ignore, for real world shooting.
 
tdodd said:
Of course, with a 40D you don't actually have the option to make such adjustments for yourself, but at least with the manual method you can determine whether or not you have a problem and, if you do, how significant it is and in which direction. That might be something you can compensate for, or simply ignore, for real world shooting.
Click to expand...

:thumbs:;)
 
I believe 45 degrees is optimal.
 
Mad Badger said:
Lez, was that heron shot from Swell woods??

I'm not far from Taunton & have a 7D with the Sigma 150-500, if you want to meet up some time there's loads of excellent RSPB reserves nearby?

I get the same probs with my sigma & I reckon it's mostly my (lack of) technique .

Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer Steve- I did send you a PM and I await your reponse

Les :thumbs:
 
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