Dormer Extension at front of house

[akr]

Hello

Quick background and bit of a ramble. We have a small 3 bedroom semi-detached house, 1960s build. House next to us is smaller 1/2 beds crammed between us and a paintshop. After the pain shop is a single different style house (detached) followed by 3 3 storey townhouses. Houses opposite are a variety of styles as you go up and down the road. Some houses opposite have front dormer windows, some velux and some of course no conversions do not. We live on a fairly busy B road in London.

We have got permitted development through for a loft conversion. This would change us from 2 double, one single into 3 double + extra bathroom. 4 of us in the house this should be fine, however we would like to try and get an extra room for a variety of reasons (family staying, I work from home quite a bit etc). Only way I think we can do this is with some form of dormer at the front. I've spoken to the council and am going in to see them next Tuesday to see what their view is - my understanding is that they are generally against front dormers and described the request as 'unusual'.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice who has done, or knows someone who has had some form of front dormer done and or spoken to a council about it. We probably have 3 options full front dormer (likely to be turned down, not sure how it would look, but most space) or 1 to 2 dormer Windows at the front, or velux only (which is on the current plan). This is just a general discussion next week but we'd need planning permission for the 1st two options. If you have done a full front dormer, how did it look? Have you seen nice looking front dormers. some of them I've seen have not looked great...I'm not too fussed about looks, we don't have an amazingly beautiful house. Any great ideas for front dormers?

I will also be speaking to our architect who did our permitted dev plans, but wanted an outside general view.

Thanks in advance.

 

[viv1969]

You say that some houses in the street already have front dormers?
That sets a precedent, and unless the local planning rules have changed, they'd be hard pressed to deny an application.
To me, added dormers always seem to look a bit "plopped on", but I can definitely see the benefit of the added area.

 

[Cobra]

I live in a house with full front and rear dormers, but it was built like that.
it does increase the space (if you look at the pitch of the gable end) that's for sure.
I had a side extension built, the same, (Up to the boundary)
but it was in keeping, so there were no issues, except that I had to set back the front one 2.4 meters,
in case next door built a side extension.
It then would become "terraced" apparently
So I guess the back doesn't count

my understanding is that they are generally against front dormers and described the request as 'unusual'.

That does seems a strange "outlook" (sorry about the pun)
from the council, but then I live in MK not London.

There are also a couple of bungalow's around here, that have had a full dormer conversion,
they look quite smart IMO, they just look like a "low house"
We also have 3 story houses around here, where the top floor is two dormers both front and back.
They look fine too. (Again they were built that way)

No real advice, I'm afraid, if the planners have their minds set against it,
I doubt that you'll change their minds TBH.
But good luck

 

[admirable]

You don't mention if your house is a bungalow (a dormer would make it a 1½ story) or if the other properties in the street with dormers are one story or two story. Councils often object to planning for a dormer on two story houses (making them 2½ story properties) as the fire regulations etc are a whole new ball game and the general aesthetics are not as nice as a purpose built three story building.
If there is a similar property to your own with a front dormer that was a conversion then as said above they'll need to have a good reason to refuse you.

 

[dekeyboy]

A few questions.
1. Is it a house or a bungalow.
2. How high is the ridge. This would determine the type of dormer you can build. Flat roof dormers on the front of a property do not give the best effect visually.
3. Will the bathroom be on the front?

 

[boyfalldown]

my understanding is that they are generally against front dormers and described the request as 'unusual'.

When we had our loft done the London borough we're in is generally against dormers. Eventually we got a stepped in one approved but we were told at the time a full size one wouldn't have been.

 

[akr]

You say that some houses in the street already have front dormers?
That sets a precedent, and unless the local planning rules have changed, they'd be hard pressed to deny an application.
To me, added dormers always seem to look a bit "plopped on", but I can definitely see the benefit of the added area.

The front dormers on some of the houses opposite (different type of houses - very big and nicer, and mostly flats now) are window ones, as opposed to full dormers if that makes sense. I asked our architect this before we submitted our permitted development plans, but he told us he'd never heard of anyone getting front dormers in our borough, and our builder said something similar though was not as certain. I'm now wondering whether our architect wanted more of an easy life not going through planning permission etc, which is why I want to speak to the council myself. Whilst I think he is probably correct for a lot of the period property on the side roads where all the buildings looks a alike, the main road is a complete mixture of house (and further down kebab shops \ newsagents etc) - well it's not a conservation area is the best way I can put it.

Our main issue is doing the loft to get the extra room will cost a significant amount of course, but moving to a 4 bedroom house the way prices are going around here is probably 1 or 2 times the price we originally paid for our house - just crazy. It's loft conversions galore where I live as people who are staying lots just can't move, or have to move out of the area \ London.

I live in a house with full front and rear dormers, but it was built like that.
it does increase the space (if you look at the pitch of the gable end) that's for sure.
I had a side extension built, the same, (Up to the boundary)
but it was in keeping, so there were no issues, except that I had to set back the front one 2.4 meters,
in case next door built a side extension.
It then would become "terraced" apparently
So I guess the back doesn't count

my understanding is that they are generally against front dormers and described the request as 'unusual'.

That does seems a strange "outlook" (sorry about the pun)
from the council, but then I live in MK not London.

There are also a couple of bungalow's around here, that have had a full dormer conversion,
they look quite smart IMO, they just look like a "low house"
We also have 3 story houses around here, where the top floor is two dormers both front and back.
They look fine too. (Again they were built that way)

No real advice, I'm afraid, if the planners have their minds set against it,
I doubt that you'll change their minds TBH.
But good luck

Good to hear - maybe I should move!

You don't mention if your house is a bungalow (a dormer would make it a 1½ story) or if the other properties in the street with dormers are one story or two story. Councils often object to planning for a dormer on two story houses (making them 2½ story properties) as the fire regulations etc are a whole new ball game and the general aesthetics are not as nice as a purpose built three story building.
If there is a similar property to your own with a front dormer that was a conversion then as said above they'll need to have a good reason to refuse you.

Two story house, other houses with dormers (though not full dormers) are 3 story. Our property is a bit odd around where I live, most others are much older so there are hardly any other 1960s nearby (though I'm not sure about the town houses which are of course 3 story but not sure how old they are). So effectively there are nice house with dormer windows, but I don't think there are any full front dormers that I can see near me.

A few questions.
1. Is it a house or a bungalow.
2. How high is the ridge. This would determine the type of dormer you can build. Flat roof dormers on the front of a property do not give the best effect visually.
3. Will the bathroom be on the front?

1. House
2. Not sure I've left the architect to do all the measurements- but high enough for a full dormer at the back, so I assumed we could do the same at the front, technically anyway.
3. Existing 1st floor bathroom is at the front. On our original plan for permitted development the loft one was at the back. If we could get the dormer at the front not sure, would need to get plans drawn up again - I don't care too much either way.

When we had our loft done the London borough we're in is generally against dormers. Eventually we got a stepped in one approved but we were told at the time a full size one wouldn't have been.

Thanks - by stepped in do you mean all the way across but not starting at the base of the roof, or just a section of eg in the middle. Did it add much space doing it that way in practical terms? I guess you got some storage as well if it was the first option.

 

[boyfalldown]

It's stepped in on 3 of 4 sides. So it's stepped in from the base of the roof, finishes 50cm below the ridge of the roof, and 1m from the gable end. It does reach to the party wall with the adjoining property. It was my first choice (mainly because of the planners) but it made the work practice as well. If they'd refused it I'd of had to encroach on an existing bedroom with the stairs to the loft to meet building regs

 

[SarahLee]

If they're against 'front dormers' specifically, is a full rear dormer a possible option for you?

You might have an easier time getting that through since it's not visible from the road, but who knows?
There's no accounting for planning departments really.

 

[akr]

It's stepped in on 3 of 4 sides. So it's stepped in from the base of the roof, finishes 50cm below the ridge of the roof, and 1m from the gable end. It does reach to the party wall with the adjoining property. It was my first choice (mainly because of the planners) but it made the work practice as well. If they'd refused it I'd of had to encroach on an existing bedroom with the stairs to the loft to meet building regs

Thanks Hugh that's really useful. If you are comfortable doing it, and have one, would you be able to email me a photo of just the front dormer (I can PM you my email address)? Absolutely not problem at all if you cannot or don't want to though for any reason.

If they're against 'front dormers' specifically, is a full rear dormer a possible option for you?

You might have an easier time getting that through since it's not visible from the road, but who knows?
There's no accounting for planning departments really.

If just front ones they are against - we have approval for a back one just under normal permitted development. I'm trying to get front and back dormers, or maximise what we can do at the front.

 

[boyfalldown]

Thanks Hugh that's really useful. If you are comfortable doing it, and have one, would you be able to email me a photo of just the front dormer (I can PM you my email address)? Absolutely not problem at all if you cannot or don't want to though for any reason.



If just front ones they are against - we have approval for a back one just under normal permitted development. I'm trying to get front and back dormers, or maximise what we can do at the front.

Sure I'm more then happy to. Pm me your email & I'll shot them in the morning

 

[akr]

Update - firstly thanks everyone for all the advice and Hugh for sending over the photos

So I went to see the planning office this morning. As requested, I turned up with photos but no plan. I think you can see where this is going....

Anyway, first up was a face like I was mad to be asking for any form of dormer extension. After much inane and contradictory statements and being informed more than once it would have been better if I had a plan, I was told that some form of small dormer window might be allowed (as the house opposite had them, before then saying as our house is different style it will be treated on a standalone basis), but anything larger unlikely.

I think we will probably submit an application anyway for a stepped dormer as Hugh mentioned and just see what happens.

A slightly wasted morning