Dolphin Slaughter

[JohnC6]

I watched some distressing footage on the news earlier. My wife left the room. The Faroe islanders (not all I assume) took part in a 'traditional' slaughter of dolphins. The largest ever. A super-pod of 1500. It beggars belief that they continue to do this. In the footage I saw parents with small children watching. One of the whalers was interviewed on tv and he said it's a tradition going back to the 9th century..like his mentality..and those who stand alongside him.

Dolphin slaughter in Faroe Islands sparks fury after record numbers killed

The tradition is called Grindadrap and involves the animals having their necks cut with knives or being killed with harpoons.

news.sky.com

A petition get it stopped https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-dolphin-slaughter-in-feroe-iland-denmark

The islands are ownd by Denmark but are self-governing. Having read this 2015 article it looks as though the Danish authorities are complicit.

Denmark must stop the Faroe Islands cetacean slaughter

This year's 'Grind' in the Faroe Islands was as bloody as ever, writes Captain Paul Watson, who witnessed the slaughter of a pod of 22 pilot whales with vicious hooks and long knives. If Denmark wants to be considered a 'civilised' nation, it must stop its aggressive support for the cruel and...

theecologist.org

There was an outcry when some activists showed footage they'd taken of the same thing happening in Japan but today Taiji is now the only town in Japan where drive hunting still takes place on a large scale.
The government quota allows over 2,000 cetaceans to be slaughtered or captured, and this hunt is one of the world's biggest. However, the country with the worst record for this is Peru which kill dolphins to use a bait for sharks and tuna. They kill 15,000 dolphins annually. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/japans-controversial-annual-dolphin-hunt-begins

This read is a terrible indictment on mankind.

World-wide https://uk.whales.org/2018/08/06/ne...-dolphins-and-small-whales-hunted-every-year/

What bothers me is that there seems to be no world body that can stop it. I appreciate that some countries have laws against it but it isn't policed and no doubt there's an element of corruption. We know so much more about the lives of wildlife and dolphins are highly intelligent and form close bonds..sometimes,ironically, with people they come into contact with. Look at how they 'play..even show off, some say,,when people go out on boat tours to see them. I find it quite distressing.

 

[LCPete]

So sad I knew it still went on but didn’t realise that so many were still being killed

 

[Deleted member 26215]

I watched some distressing footage on the news earlier. My wife left the room. The Faroe islanders (not all I assume) took part in a 'traditional' slaughter of dolphins. The largest ever. A super-pod of 1500. It beggars belief that they continue to do this. In the footage I saw parents with small children watching. One of the whalers was interviewed on tv and he said it's a tradition going back to the 9th century..like his mentality..and those who stand alongside him.

Dolphin slaughter in Faroe Islands sparks fury after record numbers killed

The tradition is called Grindadrap and involves the animals having their necks cut with knives or being killed with harpoons.

news.sky.com

A petition get it stopped https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/stop-the-dolphin-slaughter-in-feroe-iland-denmark

The islands are ownd by Denmark but are self-governing. Having read this 2015 article it looks as though the Danish authorities are complicit.

Denmark must stop the Faroe Islands cetacean slaughter

This year's 'Grind' in the Faroe Islands was as bloody as ever, writes Captain Paul Watson, who witnessed the slaughter of a pod of 22 pilot whales with vicious hooks and long knives. If Denmark wants to be considered a 'civilised' nation, it must stop its aggressive support for the cruel and...

theecologist.org

There was an outcry when some activists showed footage they'd taken of the same thing happening in Japan but today Taiji is now the only town in Japan where drive hunting still takes place on a large scale.
The government quota allows over 2,000 cetaceans to be slaughtered or captured, and this hunt is one of the world's biggest. However, the country wqith the worst record for this peru which kill dolphins to use a bait for sharks and tuna. They kill 15,000 dolphins annually. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/japans-controversial-annual-dolphin-hunt-begins

This read is a terrible indictment on mankind.

World-wide https://uk.whales.org/2018/08/06/ne...-dolphins-and-small-whales-hunted-every-year/

What bothers me is that there seems to be no world body that can stop it. I appreciate that some countries have laws against it but it isn't policed and no doubt there's an element of corruption. We know so much more about the lives of wildlife and dolphins are highly intelligent and form close bonds..sometimes,ironically, with people they come into contact with. Look at how they 'play..even show off, some say,,when people go out on boat tours to see them. I find it quite distressing.

Well, when you consider what human beings do to each other...

 

[JohnC6]

Well, when you consider what human beings do to each other...

Very true and it's utterly depressing. I admit that I take more than a healthy interest in 'matters of the world' and get pretty execised by it hence some suggestions on here, from time to time, to chill out. I won't give any latest examples (of what's going on in the world) and leave the thread with the dolphins.

 

[LCPete]

Very true and it's utterly depressing. I admit that I take more than a healthy interest in 'matters of the world' and get pretty execised by it hence some suggestiions on here from time to time to chill out. I won't give any latest examples and leave the thread with the dolphins.

Yes I completely understand how you feel my wife says I pay too much attention to stuff going on but it’s just because I care
I’ve noticed a big drop in the insect population and I’m by no means an expert but I believe it’s down to the use of chemicals on the land

 

[jerry12953]

Yes, I saw most of the film and the interview. It is pretty gross. I thought they hunted pilot whales like this - maybe it's just what happens to be available.

The interviewee I thought answered the questions pretty well. Questions were answered in terms of food miles (you can't argue with that) and was it animal welfare? I understand that these hunts are "traditional" but when the traditions began they would have used much more primitive methods and equipment and killed far fewer creatures than they do now.

I fail to understand how such intelligent and wealthy people as the Faeroese feel they need to continue such slaughter.

 

[Box Brownie]

I was listening to a report about this mass slaughter and it seems, a bit like the Spaniards and bull fighting, there are some Faroese who are in favour of ending the "Grind" even more so following this largest ever mass killing.

The supporters espouse that it is:-
Traditional (don't they appreciate that some traditions outgrow the reason of their origins)
Carefully done (no idea how that is met!)
Killed humanely and quickly (the report mentioned that there were too few men with knives & skill to kill all them in s timely manner, let alone many dying in distress and not by the knife)
'Only' done for provision of food (just one would represent a token traditional food killing but 1500 is more meat than the whole population could eat = they died not even meeting that criteria!)

The slaughter of this super pod was nothing of the sort on all counts and IMO was a blood lust driven destruction of one of the most intelligent mammals apart from primates on the planet.

The same report mentioned that this event even prompted (many?) who had supported the Grind to question it and say it now has to end!

Let us hope this tradition will now cease!

 

[arclight]

The slaughter of the dolphins is a despicable and revolting event.

Here in the UK there are in the region of 30-40 MILLIONS of pheasants reared to be slaughtered for fun every year (plus many other species deemed to pose a threat to those about to die).

Seem to be a lot of mentally disturbed people who enjoy killing.

 

[Mr Bump]

This is the thing with the world at the moment and why we as humans are losing the plot.
so many awful things going on in the world we become numb and disinterested.

i read the other day 71,000 estimated civilians were killed during the afghan war yet we don't say a thing to remember them during the whole 9/11 thing recently.

the world is truly doomed and we the humans will kill it and it wont be 100s of years away, then next generation will feel all the pain due to the utter selfishness of there parents.

 

[LCPete]

The slaughter of the dolphins is a despicable and revolting event.

Here in the UK there are in the region of 30-40 MILLIONS of pheasants reared to be slaughtered for fun every year (plus many other species deemed to pose a threat to those about to die).

Seem to be a lot of mentally disturbed people who enjoy killing.

Yes and all those pheasants have a very bad impact on our native birds
Huge biomass takes food supply from natural birds

 

[woof woof]

It's just awful and difficult to understand how civilised people can do this in this day and age.

 

[JohnC6]

I came across this blog today. It's written by a young Australian photographer who, with her husband travel the world. For some unfathomable reason she's become an apologist for the whale/dolphin killing..the so-called annual Grinadrap. She's actually suggested that it's more important to keep tradition than worry about the dolphins and whales.

It's lengthy so I wouldn't expect anyone to read it all. I've read a fair bit but will continue tomorrow. What struck me was the patronising way she thanks those who criticise it saying thank you for responding and that they have a right to object. I feel like responding.

Understanding the Faroe Islands Grindadrap - Mapping Megan

Whaling is an issue which is plaguing the international media, and the current saga surrounding the Faroe Islands Grindadrap is headline news. Few would have missed the recent media circus and international outrage surrounding the killing of pilot whales in the Faroe Islands, a practice known...

www.mappingmegan.com

What's also going under the radar with these people in the Faroes is the klilling of the likes of puffins and guillemots etc.

Disappearing Puffins Bring an Icelandic Hunting Tradition Under Scrutiny

Historically, hunting seabirds has been a distinctive feature of Nordic coastal culture. Should it still be?

www.smithsonianmag.com

The Danish government could put a stop to all this slaughter. They give the islanders approximately 100 million a year however, the islanders are pretty well self-sufficient and it's only a small part of their income. Most comes from fishing. Faroe Islands are rated amongst the highest for GDP per capita in the world. They're rich. The EU can't stop it because whilst Denmark is a member the Faroes aren't. Having said that the EU won't stop another brutal so-called 'tradition'..bull fighting. I'll also include the so-called Running of the Bulls in Pamplona. Covid put a stop to that in 2020 and this year. I actually rejoice when I read of anyone coming to grief when a bull gets the better of them just as I rejoice when the bullfighters involved with the bulls in a ring come to grief. It's no less than they deserve .

Are there no depths that humanity will go to in the name of tradition ?

Warning..disturbing reading and photos June 2020. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/inside-horrors-yulin-dog-festival-22243960

 

[JohnC6]

The slaughter of the dolphins is a despicable and revolting event.

Here in the UK there are in the region of 30-40 MILLIONS of pheasants reared to be slaughtered for fun every year (plus many other species deemed to pose a threat to those about to die).

Seem to be a lot of mentally disturbed people who enjoy killing.

You can add to those who enjoy killing.... those that watch it too.

 

[Mr Bump]

It's just awful and difficult to understand how civilised people can do this in this day and age.

can you not really? its happening all day every day, our own government has been complicit in the murder of 10s of 1000s of civilians in the middle east saga over the last decade are they invisible to you?

 

[woof woof]

can you not really? its happening all day every day, our own government has been complicit in the murder of 10s of 1000s of civilians in the middle east saga over the last decade are they invisible to you?

Jesus. You need to stop sniffing whatever you're sniffing and stop following demented loons on friendface and twonker. Or maybe your brain has melted and it's just too late for you. Judging you on this post, that seems to be the case.

 

[jerry12953]

The slaughter of the dolphins is a despicable and revolting event.

Here in the UK there are in the region of 30-40 MILLIONS of pheasants reared to be slaughtered for fun every year (plus many other species deemed to pose a threat to those about to die).

Seem to be a lot of mentally disturbed people who enjoy killing.

Probably more than 40 million, actually. More like 60m if you add in the red-legged partridges that are released to be killed as well.

 

[Mr Bump]

Jesus. You need to stop sniffing whatever you're sniffing and stop following demented loons on friendface and twonker. Or maybe your brain has melted and it's just too late for you. Judging you on this post, that seems to be the case.

BBC news actually and by your comment I guess you like most people just think this mass death in the middle east is collateral damage on the fight against terror?

 

[jerry12953]

Time to put an end to this, I suggest.

 

[arclight]

Probably more than 40 million, actually. More like 60m if you add in the red-legged partridges that are released to be killed as well.

Yes, I knew my figures are on the low side. Then there are the creatures that are snared and trapped (e.g. weasels and stoats) because they are seen as a threat to the birds that are there to be killed for fun. How many shots are fired during a shoot ? Many more than one per bird. My local pheasant shoot (who, BTW, cull roe deer because they can run through the drives and spoil the "sport") discharge close to 3 shots for every bird killed (they have someone with a counter to record this). Where does all this mass of highly toxic lead land ? No where safe that is for sure.

The people who own/manage the land where all this carnage takes places try to tell us that they are the "guardians of the countryside".

 

[jerry12953]

Yes, I knew my figures are on the low side. Then there are the creatures that are snared and trapped (e.g. weasels and stoats) because they are seen as a threat to the birds that are there to be killed for fun. How many shots are fired during a shoot ? Many more than one per bird. My local pheasant shoot (who, BTW, cull roe deer because they can run through the drives and spoil the "sport") discharge close to 3 shots for every bird killed (they have someone with a counter to record this). Where does all this mass of highly toxic lead land ? No where safe that is for sure.

The people who own/manage the land where all this carnage takes places try to tell us that they are the "guardians of the countryside".

The shooting industry itself has produced figures showing that only about 35% of released birds are actually shot. The rest die lingering deaths from disease or starvation, or are run over by cars.

 

[JohnC6]

Yes, I knew my figures are on the low side. Then there are the creatures that are snared and trapped (e.g. weasels and stoats) because they are seen as a threat to the birds that are there to be killed for fun. How many shots are fired during a shoot ? Many more than one per bird. My local pheasant shoot (who, BTW, cull roe deer because they can run through the drives and spoil the "sport") discharge close to 3 shots for every bird killed (they have someone with a counter to record this). Where does all this mass of highly toxic lead land ? No where safe that is for sure.

The people who own/manage the land where all this carnage takes places try to tell us that they are the "guardians of the countryside".

I've just read about that...ie. other wild animals snared. https://www.league.org.uk/shooting

From your post a few back No #8. "Seem to be a lot of mentally disturbed people who enjoy killing".

I did add a 'like' but it was to recognise that along with those who actively take part in events such as the dolphin slaughter and you mentioned pheasant shooting too are the by-standers. Re bullfighting the spectators are called aficionados. Maybe I should have quoted it but deleting the last paragraph re their state of mind. In one of the photos I saw a mother with what looked like a 5 year old boy sitting on high ground above the bay where the slaughter took place. Another shot showed a 9/10 year old boy sitting astride a dolphin that had had its neck severed. The kid sat right by the gaping wound. It wasn't a 'like' re your assertion that they are mentally disturbed. The reason being that they aren't.

Here's the definition.
Any of various disorders, such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or autism spectrum disorder, characterized by a distressing or disabling impairment of an individual's cognitive, emotional, or social functioning.

Don't get me wrong, Doug. I'm 100% with you as you've probably gathered after reading my posts over time in relation to these matters. I lump those who watch these activities in with those who carry them out. What sort of people take the trouble to go along and watch and re bullfighting pay an admission fee.

I'm sure a minority, both participants and by-standers, followers and spectators, do have sadistic tendencies but in reality 99.99% don't. Re this activity. Bullfighting.. I refuse to call it a sport.. this is what happens pre the fight. I mention it because I'm sure the spectators and apologists for it are unaware of what precedes the fight and what happens afterwards if the bull isn't killed.

The vast majority of bulls are forced to undergo afeitado, the cutting down or filing of the horns. Part of the bull's horns is sawn off so that he cannot thrust at his opponent properly. ... For hours before to the bullfight, the bull is held in a tiny, dark isolation cell. He is not given food or water.

I've also read that sometimes vaseline is rubbed in to the eyes to blur vision to the advantage of the matador.I knew I was right..Not only vaseline but .....https://findanyanswer.com/what-do-they-do-to-bulls-before-a-bullfight


So..You mentioned that people who actively take part in these practices are mentally disturbed. Activities such as the bullfighting mentioned above, slaughter of dolphins, fox hunting, pheasant/partridge shoots..what else ?..dog fights..I think they're confined to so-called travellers,though. There's deer hunting and hare coursing, too.

The fox hunting people are generally the wealthy. To be wealthy you, generally, need to be intelligent unless you win the lottery or be an heir to a fortune . It must cost a lot of money to keep those horses. I have seen a couple of hunts. I saw the Cotswold hunt one day after I'd been out with my 100-400mm lens for birding. I didnt know there was a hunt on and down a country lane I quickly hid my lens under a coat on the car seat for obvious reasons. Another occasion involved the Beaufort Hunt when I was close to large lakes..once again with my 100-400mm lens for wildfowl and I was by a five-bar gate and a male horse rider in full hunting outfit went over it a couple of feet from me..deliberately without warning., I hadn't seen him coming from behind me. He was followed by a couple of lady riders who very courteous/friendly to me especially when I told them I was there to photogrpah the wildfowl on the huge lakes. I have to say that the horses were magnificent creatures.

The shooting people. Once again on the wealthy side and involving the land owners. I don;'t know the cost of a day's shooting but it';s lot. I think quite a few city-types get up onto the moorlands for several days during the season. I've tried to find an explanation, a common thread as to why they all enjoy killing animals/birds and I can't. With fox hunting (I know it's banned but it went on and still does..and the state of mind of the participants is unchanged) ..and bullfighting there's the added dimension of torture re the bulls and re foxes a terrifying chase by hounds and hunts-people on horses. They aren't, as you suggest, 'mentally disturbed', they're just like you and me as far as mental stability goes. That's the point of my post. The unavoidable truth is that they are, on the whole just like you and me but think differently...absolutely wrongly in my opinion..and yours, obviously and it's not a matter of a questionable state of mind.

 

[jerry12953]

I just found the following from the Guardian -

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...rce=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=greenlight_email

and this -

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...es-dolphin-hunt-review-amid-outcry-at-carnage

 

[arclight]

I've just read about that...ie. other wild animals snared. https://www.league.org.uk/shooting


John C wrote ... inter alia :-
"The shooting people. Once again on the wealthy side and involving the land owners. I don;'t know the cost of a day's shooting but it';s lot. I think quite a few city-types get up onto the moorlands for several days during the season. I've tried to find an explanation, a common thread as to why they all enjoy killing animals/birds and I can't. With fox hunting (I know it's banned but it went on and still does..and the state of mind of the participants is unchanged) ..and bullfighting there's the added dimension of torture re the bulls and re foxes a terrifying chase by hounds and hunts-people on horses. They aren't, as you suggest, 'mentally disturbed', they're just like you and me as far as mental stability goes. That's the point of my post. The unavoidable truth is that they are, on the whole just like you and me but think differently...absolutely wrongly in my opinion..and yours, obviously and it's not a matter of a questionable state of mind."

I understand what you say, John.

What is in my mind is the connection between those that hurt animals and psycopathy. There is reason for concern.

You mentioned the cost of a day's shooting. "Guns on Pegs" website has information.
The local shoot in my neck of the woods costs about £1000 per day, but only those who "meet with the landowners approval" need apply.
There does not appear to be more than 12 guns who kill an average of 20 birds each shoot at the start of the season (numbers tail off as the season progresses).

In some places youngsters, on killing their first stag have their faces daubed with it's blood. What sort of person would indulge in such a barbaric ritual (foxhunters, I think).

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

To be wealthy you, generally, need to be intelligent

I take "wealthy" to mean having more wealth than 90% of your fellow citizens.

In that respect, my experience suggests that you mainly need to be immoral; a mental disease such as psychopathy also helps.

Having these two traits is, of course, no guarantee of wealth.

 

[JohnC6]

I understand what you say, John.

What is in my mind is the connection between those that hurt animals and psycopathy. There is reason for concern.

You mentioned the cost of a day's shooting. "Guns on Pegs" website has information.
The local shoot in my neck of the woods costs about £1000 per day, but only those who "meet with the landowners approval" need apply.
There does not appear to be more than 12 guns who kill an average of 20 birds each shoot at the start of the season (numbers tail off as the season progresses).

In some places youngsters, on killing their first stag have their faces daubed with it's blood. What sort of person would indulge in such a barbaric ritual (foxhunters, I think).

£1000 a day ??

Re the first stag kill and fox hunting.. Yes...I believe they 'bloody' the face of youngtsers in fox-hunting circles too. One might consider it a form of child abuse.It's been going on for many years.

Here's an extract from the Cheltenham Examiner of March 25, 1909, in reference to the "eviction" and butchery of a fox which had taken refuse in a drain.

"Captain Elwe’s two children being present at the death of a fox on their father’s preserves, the old hunting custom of ‘blooding’ was duly performed by Charlie Beacham, who, after dipping the brush of the fox in its own blood, sprinkled the foreheads of both children, hoping they would be aspirants to the ‘sport of kings.’ "


Another despicable practice when they hunted legally and who knows. might still engage in. https://foxhuntingevidenceuk.com/the-truth/truth-about-cub-hunting/

An article from January 6th this year addressing the restrictions put in place re Covid and how it's affected the hunts. I say that as a given that they continue despite the illegality of it. https://waronwildlife.co.uk/2021/01/06/national-lockdown-hunting-season-on-hold/

I'm still 'researching' as to why, on the face of it, people follow hunts, watch bullfighting, watch heinous rituals like this one in Lesbos..[Lesvos in Greek] https://www.baboolife.com/2019/08/100/

In 2000, in a small Spanish village 155 miles NW of Madrid, the annual custom..tradition of course...of throwing a goat from a church steeple, to be caught in a canvas held by outstretched by locals..so they did,at least have some compassion, was banned. You have to wonder why the priest allowed it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/jan/24/2 .They obviously suffered withdrawal symptoms because in 2014 they used a toy goat..no doubt minus the life-saving canvas,I assume.

This time it's Greeks on the island of Lesbos..Greek Lesvos https://www.baboolife.com/2019/08/100/

One article I read might have the answer. Too many of us don't see animals /birds as sentient beings but 'things'.

 

[JohnC6]

I take "wealthy" to mean having more wealth than 90% of your fellow citizens.

In that respect, my experience suggests that you mainly need to be immoral; a mental disease such as psychopathy also helps.

Having these two traits is, of course, no guarantee of wealth.

That might well be the case. Some of the traits of the wealthy do come under the umbrella of psychopathy. With regard to that I recall reading that people at the top..eg Richard Fuld of Lehman Bros in New York ((nicknamed..the Gorilla) who brought down the company in 200 , are classed as 'corporate psychopaths. Most people think a psychopath is a serial killer.

I can't speak for Doug nor know what was in his mind when he posted this..

'Seem to be a lot of mentally disturbed people who enjoy killing'.

I can only summise he wasn't alluding to people without morals but with actual mental welfare issues that one would normally seek treatment for.

 

[Box Brownie]

£1000 a day ??

Re the first stag kill and fox hunting.. Yes...I believe they 'bloody' the face of youngtsers in fox-hunting circles too. One might consider it a form of child abuse.It's been going on for many years.

Here's an extract from the Cheltenham Examiner of March 25, 1909, in reference to the "eviction" and butchery of a fox which had taken refuse in a drain.

"Captain Elwe’s two children being present at the death of a fox on their father’s preserves, the old hunting custom of ‘blooding’ was duly performed by Charlie Beacham, who, after dipping the brush of the fox in its own blood, sprinkled the foreheads of both children, hoping they would be aspirants to the ‘sport of kings.’ "


Another despicable practice when they hunted legally and who knows. might still engage in. https://foxhuntingevidenceuk.com/the-truth/truth-about-cub-hunting/

An article from January 6th this year addressing the restrictions put in place re Covid and how it's affected the hunts. I say that as a given that they continue despite the illegality of it. https://waronwildlife.co.uk/2021/01/06/national-lockdown-hunting-season-on-hold/

I'm still 'researching' as to why, on the face of it, people follow hunts, watch bullfighting, watch heinous rituals like this one in Lesbos..[Lesvos in Greek] https://www.baboolife.com/2019/08/100/

In 2000, in a small Spanish village 155 miles NW of Madrid, the annual custom..tradition of course...of throwing a goat from a church steeple, to be caught in a canvas held by outstretched by locals..so they did,at least have some compassion, was banned. You have to wonder why the priest allowed it. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/jan/24/2 .They obviously suffered withdrawal symptoms because in 2014 they used a toy goat..no doubt minus the life-saving canvas,I assume.

This time it's Greeks on the island of Lesbos..Greek Lesvos https://www.baboolife.com/2019/08/100/

One article I read might have the answer. Too many of us don't see animals /birds as sentient beings but 'things'.

On this last part, the recent change to the law concerning theft of dogs......as in no longer viewed 'simply' as property.

I seriously wonder how many dog owners, who see their pets as family members and hence more than just property, look at the likes of fox hunting and all blood sports where non pet animals are killed in awefull ways? If they accept/support such "sport" how do they reconcile that with the love of their dog(s)!

 

[simon ess]

It is all rather unsavoury but I wonder how it compares to the mass slaughter of our own food animals, including millions of tons of fish.

Is it the wild aspect vs domesticated, or perceived intelligence perhaps?

I don't know, I'm just wondering.

 

[JohnC6]

On this last part, the recent change to the law concerning theft of dogs......as in no longer viewed 'simply' as property.

I seriously wonder how many dog owners, who see their pets as family members and hence more than just property, look at the likes of fox hunting and all blood sports where non pet animals are killed in awefull ways? If they accept/support such "sport" how do they reconcile that with the love of their dog(s)!

Yes..I recall that a new specific law is going through Parliament. Pet abduction/theft acknowledging the sentience of animals and the effect that a loss has on the owner. As you say, at present the animals are regarded as 'property' and dealt with accordingly. The consequence of a specific law will carry with it meaningful sentencing too.

I think a lot of people look on criminals as stupid..having seen CCTV footage of bungling burglars and youngsters stealing high powered cars but here, as you know, they're exploiting the demand for pets..mainly dogs..during the lockdowns. Ongoing, is the theft of catalytic converters because the price of precious metals inside the units has soared. I think they get about £400-500 for them .Ever the opportunists. Pity they can't put their 'awareness' capabilities to involving themselves in legal activities.

Re dog owners and fox hunting. One category of dog owner who don't have any regard for their dogs are the hunting fraternity themselves. It's estimated that they kill..or did before the ban on fox hunting with hounds 3000 hounds a year and that number is given by the Countryside Alliance (their own organisation) and that only refers to the retired hounds. There are the puppies to be considered too because they're surplus to requirements.

Re dog/pet owners. Maybe the answer would be different if you were to run a survey in an urban area as oppopsed to a rural area.You'd hope that the sentient link would have them oppose any blood sport. I'm also against horse racing and greyhound racing too and pigeon racing. The people who indulge in that are ruthless. If the pigeon has served its purpose and can no longer race they break its neck with a sharp twist. https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-the-rspcas-view-on-pigeon-racing/

I'm against confinement in cages of birds..eg budgies/parrots/Macaws.I recall telling a member of staff at a café on the Scilly Isles that whilst the coffee/cake was excellent the visit was somewhat marred by seeing a group of goldfinches enclosed in an aviary. Why do it ?

 

[JohnC6]

It is all rather unsavoury but I wonder how it compares to the mass slaughter of our own food animals, including millions of tons of fish.

Is it the wild aspect vs domesticated, or perceived intelligence perhaps?

I don't know, I'm just wondering.

It's a mute point. The scale of slaughter for food is concerning. You mention the tonnage of fish caught. I wonder there's any left in the oceans. Back in the cave days a group of humans would just kill what they needed.

I think it's a different conversation re hunting wild animals. Slaughter is under..or should be..controlled humane conditions and according to law but I readily accept that in too many countries,including Europe, standards fall well below what is acceptable. There's also the aspects of Halal and Kosher meat .However, a bunch of people on horses accompanied by hounds (it still goes on) chasing a fox or a deer across the landscape is a different issue. It's classed a sport. Country sports. No need to go into the why's and wherefore's as it's not the question you're posing.