Doing my first paid photography job(Indoor) Advice???

J

JedCamara

Suspended / Banned
Messages
5
Name
Jed Camara
Edit My Images
No
Hi there, I normally do video and filmmaking, but I've also been doing more photography these days and would like to be able to make money out of photography as well.

I've got my first paid photography job coming up, it's indoors in a hair salon. Never done an indoor photo shoot like this before so I need all the advice I can get. I consider myself a newbie to photography so give me all the basic stuff I need to know!

My equipment is:
Canon 550d(With Magic Lantern firmware)
Canon 50mm 1.8
Canon 28mm 2.8(broken auto focus)
Samyang 14mm 2.8
Peleng/Belomo 8mm Fisheye 3.5
Sigma 70 - 300mm

I'm guessing my main lens of use will be the 50mm. I've also got a monopod and a tripod if needed but I don't know if I would need that since I think I'm gonna be moving around a lot. I just ordered a battery grip just incase I need it and to make me look a bit more professional :P

Any advice for me please?

Also how do you usually handle payments? Make them pay after you've sent them the photos? Charge via paypal? Direct debit? cash in hand?


Here's my flickr, keep in mind some of the photos were taken when I only had a kit lens. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ejcamara
 
Last edited:
My best advice would be to delete your post!

Then go read the forum on 'how to' - then come back with any questions.

The reason for me to say delete the post is because it will turn into thread of calling you names and 'how could you charge' (if you do not know what you are doing) - etc

With all the best will in the world, if you need to ask the questions you have - do you think you are ready for the shoot?
 
Last edited:
I know the answer to this question but I will refrain from commenting as I got slaughtered the last time.
 
Really struggling to reply to this post, sorry Jed. To be brutally honest do you think you should be taking on paying customers before you have even got to grips with the very basics?
 
Please oh great tog god in the sky tell me its a troll
 
I assume you got this on word of mouth "my friends mates friends sons daughters boyfriend has a camera", (sort of thing), which is fair enough, but does put a tonne of pressure on you and your consumer end kit.

A lot depends on what they want. If they want photos of the premises, it's different to photo's of the staff or models. Be ready for extremely poor lighting (lots of downward flourescent light, casting nasty shadows, nasty mirrors and relective surfaces, etc).

I'd say take payment in cash for now, if your otherwise employed you have to declare any second income. If your otherwise unemployed (on JSA) you could find yourself getting shafted. Cash leaves no trace, no point getting yourself into hot water over a (so far) one off job.

Everyone has to start somewhere..... I got payment in beer when I did a friends sons birthday party :)
 
Last edited:
Some kinda light source will be a good start.
 
This gets better we now add defrauding the revenue
 
The only answer is to wait until you know what you are doing before you start charging:thumbs:.

Over 200 words and you haven't said what you'll be shooting:shake:

You have asked for advice - listed your kit - and not said what you'll be shooting:shake:

The subject, the product and the light you have available are all more important than any of the 200+ words you've used.

Given how wrong that is so far, would you hire you to take photographs?

Ask yourself 'I want some photographs taking, which will have some value to me' what are your priorities as a customer? Do they have anything to do with lenses (or camera grips:nuts:). Or did you ought to be thinking about the subject and how it needs to be portrayed, and how that would be achieved.
 
jd.smith said:
This gets better we now add defrauding the revenue
Click to expand...

The bean counters don't like people trying to start their own business, payment in cash lets you test the waters first.
Once you start taking other payments, you need to set about doing all the paper work and tax returns, even though there is a limit over which you must pay tax and this guy ^^ is unlikely to reach that limit any time soon anyway.

What if he is on JSA? One payment of a few £ can get your JSA suspended, it's not much encouragement to try is it?
It's half the reason we have so many unemployed in this country, they're too scared to get out there and try, because one job that pays £10, could cost them £60 or more.

So there's no defrauding going on, just some common sense.... ;)
 
Last edited:
What's up with the snobby attitude people? I'm just looking for some general advice, if you want to act all sarcastic and elitist just ignore my post and get on with your life. Perhaps I was a little bit too modest and sold myself short. I'm not a complete newbie, as I'm a film maker and do videography obviously I'm aware of things like f stops, iso and all that. I also do a lot of cinematography so composition is something I'm very much aware of.

Of course I'm ready to take on paying customers, I've done paid videography jobs before and non-paid photography jobs before too. I'm just making sure I make the effort to learn as much as I can before I do the shoot. How am I meant to learn and improve if I don't bite the bullet and go for it?

I forgot to mention I can also rent out an external flash unit from my university if needed. Obviously I'd practise using it beforehand, but I've never used them before myself. I also have my own reflectors.

@tiler65 I'll go read it right now, thanks :)
@Lyonspride A client I did a promo video for recommended me to his friend who is opening up a new hair salon and needs a photographer. Not sure yet what exactly they will want me to shoot as I've just been told about this job, but from what I got from the brief email it will involve a model and photographing their "services." I'm guessing the lighting won't be fantastic yeah :P


I've just started contacting the client which is why I don't have any details on exactly what I will be shooting yet. I was just looking for general advice for now.
 
Last edited:
I hardly see anyone being snobby or elitist in thier replys. You've asked for advice on a job you have little knowledge of yourself. How would we know what info you're looking for?
And if you've done videography, you should know how to take fairly decent photos at least. I've had a look at your Flickr, and to be honest I feel some if your photos to be flat. The two portraits of people are not lit correctly and just don't work.

I understand you feel ready to take on paid work, and it's always a buzz getting paid for something you enjoy doing. Just keep in mind, a bad review gets spread more than a good one.

That being said, the only info I can give is this. Learn about angles to shoot from, Learn how to light your subject well. Try use window light if available. If you're using a flash, use a bounce or bounce off a wall or ceiling. You're 50mm whilst a good lens might be a little to long (remember your crop factor). So you might be best with something shorter. And good luck :)
 
Given what you will be shooting I would only concern yourself with the 50mm f1.8 and the 28mm f2.8
Where the 50mm is too long the 28mm will come into play albeit in MF mode only.
Most hair salons are tight for space so I wouldn't bother with the tele lens.
I would forget about the grip too, and the thought process of looking more professional - that comes from other avenues, not what stuff you can bolt on to your body.

Flash is a must to get nice lighting. I Would recke the salon before the shoot to get an idea of space best angle to shoot etc.
As there will be loads of mirrors you risk capturing yourself in the image - be cautious of this as you dont really want to be in any of the shots.

As for payment - money before goods like most walks of life. Do it the other way round and you risk handing over images and not getting paid, especially if its cash in hand with no formal contract.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@John mc: Sorry I didn't mean everyone in that statement. Yeah those two portraits aren't very good, they weren't lit at all to be honest, I just wanted to get some people portraits in there. Should probably delete them actually. Some of those photos are quite old(the band photo shoot in particular) when I just used a Nikon d40 in auto mode with a kit lens. I haven't really got around to updating my Flickr in a while. Like I said I consider myself a newbie in photography, it's just it feels like some people here took that statement as if I'd be shooting everything in auto and the pop up flash. I realise I won't be getting photos as good as photographers who have been doing it professionally for years(this will be reflected in my price) but this is a chance to get some valuable experience. Just gotta make sure I don't mess it up.

I'll definitely rent out an external camera flash and have lots of practice using it before I do the shoot.

I'll post here again once I know more about what I will be shooting and under what sort of conditions.

@Stupar: Nice one thanks.

What sort of external flash units should I look to get? Any specific models?(Preferably 3rd party due to my budget) I'm not 100% sure if this is the case but my university might only have Nikon branded flash units(I may be wrong), if this is the case can I still use them on a Canon?(Might be a stupid question)
 
Last edited:
stupar said:
Given what you will be shooting I would only concern yourself with the 50mm f1.8 and the 28mm f2.8
Where the 50mm is too long the 28mm will come into play albeit in MF mode only.
Most hair salons are tight for space so I wouldn't bother with the tele lens.
I would forget about the grip too, and the thought process of looking more professional - that comes from other avenues, not what stuff you can bolt on to your body.

Flash is a must to get nice lighting. I Would recke the salon before the shoot to get an idea of space best angle to shoot etc.
Click to expand...

Well if I'm getting labelled as elitist, I'm duty bound to point out this as psychic. The OP doesn't know what he'll be shooting yet so how can you say any of this?

I may be too picky, but when the OP comes back with a brief, I'm sure he'll get useful advice.

To the OP, the best way to ensure you get snarky comments from professionals in any field will be to join a forum and in your first post announce that you've taken on a professional job and want to know how to do it.

Just for a second, think about it from the outside and see how it looks.

It might be a while since that Flickr feed was updated, but I'd expect to see a lot better from someone confident to do this job. I hope you're being honest with yourself here, you were happy to share that as an example of your work, so it's a bit late to be making excuses about it.
 
^^^ Wot Phil said ^^^

Jed, there are some bloody good photographers on here who have been doing the sort of work you mention - and getting paid for it - for many years. Reel it in a bit and listen to the good, free, advice you're getting.

To test yourself, find a shot of the sort your client is after. Then take a shot like that. If the difference between the two is negligible, you're good to go. If your shot doesn't look as good, well, you still have a bit to learn.

Don't get offended. We all had to lean. Experience in video is a bit useful, but frankly not very. It's like saying you've done some car racing, so now you're ready to try power boats.

An advertising shoot of the type you mention is pretty tricky even for a seasoned pro.
 
I'm sorry but if your flickr stream is anything to go by your not ready to be charging money for photography services, I didn't look at all the photo's but based on your posts thus far I zeroed in on your portraiture folder, no looking past the fact that 75% of the folder was of Dogs as apposed to people the white balance was all over the place and most of the were far from correctly focused, these are the most basic requirements for taking a photo of someone...you need a lot more practice before evening thinking about charging people for the service that you provide

It's not members being snobby or anything of the sort this is an amazingly friendly forum but we're not going to tell you your ready to go out on a paid commission when patiently your nowhere near ready
 
Do it for free. Learn from the experience. If they like what you have done ask for a few free haircuts and some sort of reference. You have something and a free invaluable experience and they get something which in essence they contribute towards.
 
Last edited:
Phil V said:
Well if I'm getting labelled as elitist, I'm duty bound to point out this as psychic. The OP doesn't know what he'll be shooting yet so how can you say any of this?

I may be too picky, but when the OP comes back with a brief, I'm sure he'll get useful advice.

To the OP, the best way to ensure you get snarky comments from professionals in any field will be to join a forum and in your first post announce that you've taken on a professional job and want to know how to do it.

Just for a second, think about it from the outside and see how it looks.

It might be a while since that Flickr feed was updated, but I'd expect to see a lot better from someone confident to do this job. I hope you're being honest with yourself here, you were happy to share that as an example of your work, so it's a bit late to be making excuses about it.
Click to expand...

My term "given what you will be shooting" was more in reference to the salon than the contents inside it.
Yes I'm not a psychic but even without a brief, given the location there are a few things you can submize, which is what I did.
Apologies if I have given the OP false information.
 
Ok I'll ignore most of what others have written as ultimitely it's entirely up to you if you do paid jobs or not... this isn't someone's wedding so the standard is really less of an issue. You feel you can deliver anyway so I'll just let you make that call and not other people.

What time of day are you shooting in the salon? I shot in one recently but it was after the sun set so was very dark in there, which then involved a fairly high ISO AND 2 flashes through different diffusers... if it's during the day it shouldn't be too difficult but depending on what you're shooting you will need to add flash one way or another i'd imagine.

Here's a link to the shoot I did... the nail shots were all done with a shoot through above and to the side pointing down, the hair being done was a shoot through in front and to the side and a bounce behind and on the other side. The shots of the dresses on hangers etc all done with a shoot through placed to the side and in front slightly, and the girl in the dress with a shoot through about 45 degrees to the side and slightly above.

Like I said no idea what you're shooting in the salon but might give you an idea of what others have done for similar shoots.

If shooting in the day time I'd lose the bounce umbrella from the hair shots but keep the shoot through

http://www.andyhudsonphotography.co.uk/portfolio-item/sos-professionals/
 
Phil V said:
Well if I'm getting labelled as elitist, I'm duty bound to point out this as psychic. The OP doesn't know what he'll be shooting yet so how can you say any of this?

I may be too picky, but when the OP comes back with a brief, I'm sure he'll get useful advice.

To the OP, the best way to ensure you get snarky comments from professionals in any field will be to join a forum and in your first post announce that you've taken on a professional job and want to know how to do it.

Just for a second, think about it from the outside and see how it looks.

It might be a while since that Flickr feed was updated, but I'd expect to see a lot better from someone confident to do this job. I hope you're being honest with yourself here, you were happy to share that as an example of your work, so it's a bit late to be making excuses about it.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate I wasn't actually referring to you with that statement, your advice was actually constructive which is what I need. I don't claim to be an expert, I even called myself a newbie. I'm happy to show them as examples of my work as the people I did them for were happy with them but I can also see that some of them aren't very good. I'm looking to step it up and I see this project as a chance to do so. For now I was just looking for very general advice like what Stupar and John Mc have given me.

Obviously I'm not gonna take the **** and charge the clients as much as experienced professional photographers do. Right now I'm expecting the photos to be fairly candid and not a studio type of affair. But if I find out the type of photo's they want me to take I can't do due to inexperience(and lack of time to learn) then I'm happy to volunteer to do it for free or do them a video instead.
 
If your going to take on a paid job is your contract with the client watertight.if the standard is not what the client expects then be prepared for legal action against you. Have you got 3rd party insurance? have you got a clear mandate of what the client wants? have you allowed for clients "extras" above the contract such as copyright -reproduction rights etc etc.


Realspeed
 
MWHCVT said:
I'm sorry but if your flickr stream is anything to go by your not ready to be charging money for photography services, I didn't look at all the photo's but based on your posts thus far I zeroed in on your portraiture folder, no looking past the fact that 75% of the folder was of Dogs as apposed to people the white balance was all over the place and most of the were far from correctly focused, these are the most basic requirements for taking a photo of someone...you need a lot more practice before evening thinking about charging people for the service that you provide

It's not members being snobby or anything of the sort this is an amazingly friendly forum but we're not going to tell you your ready to go out on a paid commission when patiently your nowhere near ready
Click to expand...

Na it's fine man I appreciate this sort of constructive advice, it's just little sarcastic comments like Jd Smith's that I have no patience for and do me no good. The white balance thing might just be my post processing, I added a coloured layer or two on top to give it those colours. Personally I like it but that's just me. The photo of the little girl sucks, I accidently left the cinestyle flat picture tone on when I took it. I just wanted to throw that photo in there so it wasn't all just dog pictures. I have no problem admitting I still have much to learn. I guess I'll see what sort of standard of photos the client is expecting and I can judge if I can deliver this for them. If it's just candid photos of them doing their job I'm definitely confident I can do it, but if they want portraits of the models that would require more complex lighting set ups I don't think I'd feel confident enough to charge them with my level of experience and I'll just tell them I'll do a video for them instead or do the shoot for free.

ajax_andy said:
Ok I'll ignore most of what others have written as ultimitely it's entirely up to you if you do paid jobs or not... this isn't someone's wedding so the standard is really less of an issue. You feel you can deliver anyway so I'll just let you make that call and not other people.

What time of day are you shooting in the salon? I shot in one recently but it was after the sun set so was very dark in there, which then involved a fairly high ISO AND 2 flashes through different diffusers... if it's during the day it shouldn't be too difficult but depending on what you're shooting you will need to add flash one way or another i'd imagine.

Here's a link to the shoot I did... the nail shots were all done with a shoot through above and to the side pointing down, the hair being done was a shoot through in front and to the side and a bounce behind and on the other side. The shots of the dresses on hangers etc all done with a shoot through placed to the side and in front slightly, and the girl in the dress with a shoot through about 45 degrees to the side and slightly above.

Like I said no idea what you're shooting in the salon but might give you an idea of what others have done for similar shoots.

If shooting in the day time I'd lose the bounce umbrella from the hair shots but keep the shoot through

http://www.andyhudsonphotography.co.uk/portfolio-item/sos-professionals/
Click to expand...

Right now I've been told it would take a day for the shoot. I can't see it going until night time but probably till the sun is starting to go down. Lovely pictures by the way.

Being honest to myself perhaps I'm not quite ready yet after all, but I'll find out first what sort of stuff they will want me to do before I give them the thumbs up. I don't wanna risk ruining my reputation by messing a job up due to inexperience. I would definitely prefer to do them a video instead of photography.
 
ajax_andy said:
Ok I'll ignore most of what others have written as ultimitely it's entirely up to you if you do paid jobs or not... this isn't someone's wedding so the standard is really less of an issue.
Click to expand...

Among the worst bit of advice on the thread - I am amazed!!!
 
tiler65 said:
Among the worst bit of advice on the thread - I am amazed!!!
Click to expand...

What I meant by that was people just jumped on the OP the same way they do someone going 'i've just bought a dslr and i'm shooting a wedding'.

The fact is the shots can be re-done by someone else if he mucks it up so it's not quite the same as a wedding where it's one opportunity or someone's memories are ruined forever. Yeah it'd be crap for his rep, but people were going on like they do with weddings and a neewbie.

If he thinks he's ready then let him get on with it, if he does a bad job his rep will be tarnished but the shop can hire someone else to re-do the job properly.

I'm not advocating walking in without a clue and not giving 2 hoots... OP said he was ready and so that's good enough for me
 
But after reading the comments in this thread the OP realises he may not quite be ready, so those who were wary were perhaps correct?

More importantly they might have saved the OP tarnishing his reputation.
 
AllyB999 said:
But after reading the comments in this thread the OP realises he may not quite be ready, so those who were wary were perhaps correct?

More importantly they might have saved the OP tarnishing his reputation.
Click to expand...

No harm in friendly advice warning of the pits falls but people really jump on people on here... it's advice but it's not always very friendly.

I think there's a few who forget that they had to start somewhere at some point and there's probs been jobs they've been a little bit of a newbie when attempting. You learn and if you do a good job then you get better through experience and confidence. I think most think no one should EVER do anything unless they are David Bailey or Anton Corbijn's standard before doing a paid gig. Fair enough sometimes thats 100% correct in that the person is going to balls it up big style, but in others you have to IMO let them decide if they are ready or at least give friendly advice of the pitfalls if they aren't. These types of threads are like a red flag to a bull yet these people asking the questions were probably me or you or them once upon a time
 
Last edited:
Ok so I am sarcastic your damn right given the opening post; as a videographer and filmmaker surely you realised the need for extra light as being key even with fast primes? You gave no idea of what was being shot, premisies, product staff in action... yet want to know how to shot it. You have a tripod but wont use it as your moving about a lot. You might want to consider mounting the camera on it and using a remote it will stop the shake as you move around and its reflection will be easier removed from the hundreds of mirrors most salons have than removing you stood holding it.

Did you think about using the film making lights and shooting under a constant lights or maybe buying a flash instead of a grip to look the part?

Why dont you just invoice as per your video work are havent you been paid for that yet either?

Maybe when you realise my thoughts process, because I did think you may realise why I didnt believe it as a real post! There are loads of posts like this people who would like to make money from their photogtaphy and some will do it but theres a lot more to it than asking question on here.

Jd
 
jd.smith said:
Ok so I am sarcastic your damn right given the opening post; as a videographer and filmmaker surely you realised the need for extra light as being key even with fast primes? You gave no idea of what was being shot, premisies, product staff in action... yet want to know how to shot it. You have a tripod but wont use it as your moving about a lot. You might want to consider mounting the camera on it and using a remote it will stop the shake as you move around and its reflection will be easier removed from the hundreds of mirrors most salons have than removing you stood holding it.

Did you think about using the film making lights and shooting under a constant lights or maybe buying a flash instead of a grip to look the part?

Why dont you just invoice as per your video work are havent you been paid for that yet either?

Maybe when you realise my thoughts process, because I did think you may realise why I didnt believe it as a real post! There are loads of posts like this people who would like to make money from their photogtaphy and some will do it but theres a lot more to it than asking question on here.

Jd
Click to expand...

And....... Breathe:)




Better now:lol:
 
Yes thanks Phil :) its my Bentley up bringing cant keep my mouth shut :)
 
JedCamara said:
I just ordered a battery grip just incase I need it and to make me look a bit more professional :P
Click to expand...

You can't be serious. this has to be some sort of joke. I'm no newbie. But I am very far from even considering doing a paid Job
 
Last edited:
I'm a newbie, self confessed.
All the jobs I've done for people have been on this basis, while you're gaining knowledge and confidence I think its good to be up front with people. In the vast majority of cases there's a good product at the end of the shoot and I get paid by the client for the work if they're happy.

But here are a few tips I've picked up the hard way:

The vast majority of your work should be prep. Finding our what the client is looking for, visiting the location of the shoot before the day to judge the lighting and space. Planning the shots you'll need, researching techniques required to get the shot if you're not sure.

The next is lighting, some of my best shots have been taken with a 10 year old DSLR and kit lens when i paid attention to the lighting. Hopefully you've got some constant lighting rigs available to you from your videography work. Not ideal but better than nothing, or something like a flash that you're not sure how to use.

As a side note, kit doesn't make you look professional, the results do.

Don't be afraid to be honest with the client and manage their expectations. Hope this helps.
 
To be honest, I'm lost for words with some of the replies on here. It appears that a lot of people have forgotten where they themselves once started!

I would have expected to see more help for the lad but instead it appears that he's been attacked by several individuals.

In such a situation I would suggest to charge no fee for the job, portfolio and reputation is more important than earning your first commission. If your work comes out to a good standard, we both know that the salon owner will feel obliged to provide you with some beer tokens etc!

Please don't let any of the negative comments on here put you down, if this is something you really want to do then don't let anyone stop you!
 
As already mentioned don't charge for the shoot . Use it to expand your portfolio , and also explain to the owner your experience so as not to over sell yourself . I believe in under promise , over deliver . Not over promise under deliver . If shooting hair style / makeup shots try to find an area outside to take these if the weather is good as the lighting will no doubt be much better than inside . A large piece of thick paper or card taped to a wall could act as a backdrop . Another piece or bed sheet etc could act as a flag / defuser . Good luck, whatever happens .
 
I am just getting into photography myself so no experience, so can't help with the questions you have OP, but I am quite shocked at some of the replies, understandably though as it is lost work for a professional studio.

It seems the salon know they don't want a studio professional in in the first place, else they would have surely done there research first or the local studio is out of there price range with the business just starting out.

If I could help you OP in your questions I would, as I am a firm believer that a forum is for discussion, not discouragement.
 
Last edited:
Ivan S said:
I am just getting into photography myself so no experience, so can't help with the questions you have OP, but I am quite shocked at some of the replies, understandably though as it is lost work for a professional studio.

It seems the salon know they don't want a studio professional in in the first place, else they would have surely done there research first or the local studio is out of there price range with the business just starting out.

If I could help you OP in your questions I would, as I am a firm believer that a forum is for discussion, not discouragement.
Click to expand...
It's not about discouragement, (though some replies could be read as that), it's about a reality check.

If someone goes into 'talk wildlife' and ask about shooting birds in flight with a bridge camera, plenty of the experts will point out its not possible. Some people might see the advice as harsh, but no-one will get upset at those posters.

But as soon as a pro says something less than encouraging about someone taking on a paid job they've not equipped for, they're accused of trying to protect the industry, and many threads get quite heated.

The reality is that there are hundreds of people on this forum who've been helped into semi pro or pro status, but it depends entirely on the thread starter and their attitude, experience and gear.
 
Harsh advice may be hard to take but it is usually the advice you look back on and think "they were right, I'm glad I listened" or "They were right, I wish I had listened"
 
I went to a wedding last week where the "pro tog" was using a canon 550d with 18-55 kit lens and a 50mm 1.8 worse part was she was using liveview all the time with face recognition focus. I havnt seen the end product yet but iam not expecting stellar results.
 
danolive1 said:
I went to a wedding last week where the "pro tog" was using a canon 550d with 18-55 kit lens and a 50mm 1.8 worse part was she was using liveview all the time with face recognition focus. I havnt seen the end product yet but iam not expecting stellar results.
Click to expand...

This always amazes me, people see 'pro togs' who haven't got a clue but just accept that what they're seeing is a professional photographer. :nuts:

When professional photographers on the forum try to give people advice, it's to keep standards up and hopefully stop the 'pro tog' spoiling someone's photos.

The tog at that wedding is probably a friend who's hoping to make it, if they'd come here and asked for advice, the pros discouraging them would have been slated. Because lots of amateurs don't see that it's 2 sides of the same story.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top