Doing a Wedding HELP.

[AliB]

By all means get into the industry but please get training , go and assist and learn the trade there is a damm sight more to it than buying a camera from jessops and taking 100's of snaps.

Which is precicely why I wrote to the editor of practical photography and I'm not even a wedding tog! (Although I do assist for a very good pro)

On the subject of assisting, it really is a good way to learn. I have no intention of doing it full time so I am not a threat to his business. What it does offer though is a chance for me to learn skills and in return, he has an extra pair of hands and eyes on the day. So hopefully I add something to his business. It's a good arrangement and yes it is hard work for me for no financial renumeration but you get out of it what you put in.

 

[PsiFox]

I agree with a lot of what he is complaining about. I totally and whole heartidly disagree with his method of complaining.

Creating a thread to DELIBERATELY slag off a few members is cruel. be honest and straight to the point if you MUST make them feel like sh*t. Why get the whole world to join in? It's playground bullying, and it sucks to see it here of all places.

Gary.
PS - ignore my spelling, I never did school

 

[Jayst84]

I dont think anyone said you NEED at flash to do a wedding... :

I think PL eluded to it in his first post, and again later.

i would use the flash to fill in the foreground and lighten the shadows in outdoor portraits, you would not have them looking into the sun as they will all be squinting.

Of course, but there are other ways of dealing with this. If we all wanted to assume PL's high n whatever attitude, I'm sure there are plenty of togs out there who could point their noses to the vertical and say he shouldn't be using flash. Rather one should master the available light.

What ever happened to CJnicolai?

 

[DiddyDave]

Is there a record for the fastest growing thread on TP ???

Or even the one with the most angry posts on it ???



DD

 

[PsiFox]

I'm not angry just disappointed with attitudes and don't like posts that deliberately set out to belittle others.

It is not necessary.

 

[DiddyDave]

Errrrrr

(Scared now :shake

I use flash, reflectors and ambient light

Does that make for me to be hung, drawn & quartered?

DD

PS trying to inject a little calm here !!!

 

[Jayst84]

Is there a record for the fastest growing thread on TP ???

Or even the one with the most angry posts on it ???



DD

Not sure, I was thinking of nominating PL's post #34 for most quoted though.. :rules:

 

[Slvrbck]

Is there a record for the fastest growing thread on TP ???

Or even the one with the most angry posts on it ???



DD

I don't know, Betty got pretty upset when someone asked about freezing bugs...

 

[fletch5]

hmm, frozen bugs

 

[AliB]

ewwwww!

How about freezing brides then, Stop the blighters moving about so much!

 

[DiddyDave]

I'm not angry just disappointed with attitudes and don't like posts that deliberately set out to belittle others.

It is not necessary.

Though as my first post showed I didn't see it that way, and as (hopefully) my 2nd showed - anyone doing a mates wedding is not a competitor of a Pro IMHO - so yes, I'm happy to help

I've not seen a TPer say "Bought my first camera & kit lens, now I'm a Pro", but if I had, I'd rather ignore them bth

DD

 

[Marcel]

Hmmm lets see what I have here to add to the discussion.

 

[StewartR]

I agree with a lot of what he is complaining about. I totally and whole heartidly disagree with his method of complaining.

Creating a thread to DELIBERATELY slag off a few members is cruel. be honest and straight to the point if you MUST make them feel like sh*t. Why get the whole world to join in? It's playground bullying, and it sucks to see it here of all places.

Gary.
PS - ignore my spelling, I never did school

Well said Gary.

 

[PsiFox]

Hmmm lets see what I have here to add to the discussion.

Waits with bated breath!!!!!

 

[fletch5]

 

[Marcel]

Hmm this is close, it'll have to do for now.

I'd also like to say. If someone feels strongly about something, that's fine, but for the love of god be polite about it. Anything less just makes them look like a tit who likes to rant.

I'll reply in more depth later.

 

[DiddyDave]

Have you got a shot of a 'Ranting Tit' then Marcel?

Love to see that one

DD

 

[Marcel]

Im desperately looking through my archives to find one lol

 

[EdinburghGary]

Im desperately looking through my archives to find one lol

So we should see it next week then?

Marcels Archives, 100 TB and counting...

 

[Marcel]

INCOMING. The man with wisdom is approaching.
Everyone stand up....and shush!
Da da da dee da da daaaaaaaaa!

 

[fletch5]

So we should see it next week then?

Marcels Archives, 100 TB and counting...

is that all

 

[PsiFox]

Im desperately looking through my archives to find one lol

don't image search google with that term though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CT]

This thread has been reported as gratuitously offensive, and in all honesty - I think it is. My first instinct was to close it, but as this topic seems to come up on a regular basis, perhaps it's time to clear the air on a few things.

Whether the die hard pros like it or not, digital photography has made wedding photography a far less daunting prospect than it it used to be. The comforter blanket of that preview screen and the ability to shoot a ridiculous amount of shots is tremendous even for a hardened pro. We can moan till the cows come home that you shouldn't have to rely on rescuing often dodgy shots in processing, but the fact is you often can. Not many people would relish taking that first wedding with a roll or two of 35mm film,, but they don't have to and the pros need to wake uip and smell the coffee ... the game has changed out of all recognition. I think most of the pros woke up a long time ago though Papa.

 

[PsiFox]

INCOMING. The man with wisdom is approaching.
Everyone stand up....and shush!
Da da da dee da da daaaaaaaaa!

And?????

Edit were you referring to the post above ?

 

[EdinburghGary]

And?????

Doh...you missed it

CT, well said.

 

[fletch5]

i am curious to how many complaints this thread actually got to be fair

 

[starman]

This thread has been reported as gratuitously offensive, and in all honesty - I think it is. My first instinct was to close it, but as this topic seems to come up on a regular basis, perhaps it's time to clear the air on a few things.

Whether the die hard pros like it or not, digital photography has made wedding photography a far less daunting prospect than it it used to be. The comforter blanket of that preview screen and the ability to shoot a ridiculous amount of shots is tremendous even for a hardened pro. We can moan till the cows come home that you shouldn't have to rely on rescuing often dodgy shots in processing, but the fact is you often can. Not many people would relish taking that first wedding with a roll or two of 35mm film,, but they don't have to and the pros need to wake uip and smell the coffee ... the game has changed out of all recognition. I think most of the pros woke up a long time ago though Papa.

Must be something wrong with me ........
I dont shoot 100's of shots
I dont spend hours post processing
I dont spend half the wedding peering at a little screen

I dont belive the "game" has changed beyond recognition
I just think there is more choice
A client can now choose someone that knows what they are doing without all the heavy reliance on digital technology ...ie a person who has experience , technique and above all an eye for a picture ...none of which can be bought at jessops.
Or of course they can go for someone that has not bothered to learn the trade and thinks a few words on a forum will get them out of trouble ....

 

[Matt]

i am curious to how many complaints this thread actually got to be fair

enough to warrant admin intervention. CT has hit the nail on the head i think, i have nothing more to add to what hes put apart from

 

[Matt]

Or of course they can go for someone that has not bothered to learn the trade and thinks a few words on a forum will get them out of trouble ....

caveat empor.

You pays your money, you takes your choice. Customers need to look at Portfolios, meet the tog, and decide that way.

Internet forums are what they are, the rise of cheap, digital, cameras HAS changed the game, of that there is no doubt, the pro togs have to show that they are the ones to choose over the 'learner newbies', im sure belittling those who buy a DSLR and jump in with both feet isnt the way to do, selling yourself to the customer is.

 

[dazzajl]

These threads always seem to make me chuckle and seethe in equal measures.

The digital world has turned my industry and our hobby on it's head and then over and over again. The market I work in, not weddings btw, has changed as much as the equipment I use to serve it and in some ways the work is harder to getand there is no shortage of snappers crying into their beer about how their living has been eeked away by the unworthy.

My response is always the same...... Tough!

Just get on with it, if you're good enough then the work is still out there. It may take less time now and hence be worth less but that's the way it is. In the olden days of film, jobs took an eternity with polaroids to shoot and waiting on film biked over to the lab. All that time was charged and we raked in the cash. Now, I shoot, the client looks at the laptop, he/she tells me I'm great and we move on.... job done and I issue a much smaller invoice than I would in the days of the big wait.

This is just too much for some snappers. Whether it's the commercial bod like me, the wedding hack like PL or the freelancer shooting for stock.

It's odd that none of them stop to think about the people that used to process their great wads of film, or work over an enlarger to make those beautiful prints....... they have no job left at all and no-one moans for them.

The world has changed. Smile and move with it or shut the f.......ummm, door on the way out.

 

[GarynLea]

SO from a noobs point of view ...

I dont intend to shoot weedings but if I did, where do I start?

I dont know any pro togs in my area that I can shadow. Yes, I can learn the techniques from books, I can practise in a studio or on family doing portraits but a wedding is a totally different ball-game.

To me, the best resource was here. Listening to the helpful tips and advice offered, looking at the shots that you guys have taken and thinking about how I could achieve similar. I say 'was' because after reading this thread, I'd now be looking elsewhere for fear of upsetting someone.

Gary

 

[Slvrbck]

and thinks a few words on a forum will get them out of trouble ....

Are you trying to top the bill for having the most offensive post in this tread??

It's not about "a few words getting you out of trouble", for me it has been, and still about getting advice from friends that know a bit more than you.

 

[Susane]

Don't lock it Admins, sticky it!

This has been very enlightening and may cut down on similar threads being posted!

 

[Dangleman]

Don't lock it admins - this forum is great, but normally everyone is so polite it can get a tad dull Nice to see some passion!

 

[awp]

right then - is everyone happy again?

 

[WeddingHack]

Ok - if you want to shoot weddings great. Amateurs with NO experience should not shoot weddings PERIOD. Yes, you have to start somewhere - but you do not start by using a real wedding as a test ground for your ability. You start by assisting another photographer - for lots and lots of weddings - in all sorts of venues - in all sorts of weather conditions - and you learn how it's done - there is a LOT more to it than knowing how to use a DSLR. After maybe a couple of years of that you go it alone. Another way - if it's a friends wedding is to shoot candids - along side the pro - as someone mentioned in this thread - you can learn a lot from that as well - without the total responsibility of handling the entire job. If you are asked - then think long and hard - for the sake of the B&G - before saying yes.

I'm not getting at anyone - I hope this is helpful and sensible advice!

The risk-averse may wish to look away now ...

I shot my first wedding on the day after I left my previous non-photogrphy related job. It was for a friend of a friend - they had not budgeted for a photographer and my friend let them know my situation (redundancy) and asked if I could shoot for them. I was working at cost - the couple paid for the cost of the prints, that's all.

Prior to this I was a keen amatuer with two years photography experience, but rarely shot people and had never owned a flash. In the week before the wedding I bought a 1DMKii, 16-35, 70-200 & 580ex - my 10D wasn't going to cut it in weddings. I had 1 days experience with the new kit before going to the wedding.

To be perfectly honest I didn't have a clue what I was doing and made it up as I went along. The couple were very happy the results and I used this wedding as a portfolio to get four other weddings over the next three months (Nov-Jan) - all again at cost - my aim was to build a portfolio and my experience before taking on paid jobs the next year. The clients were all very well aware of my level of experience, and all were pleased with the results.

In the next year I shot 25 paid weddings, turned over £30K with a profit of approximately £0 - like any first year business there is a lot of expense to soak up - don't think wedding photography is a get rich quick option. I'm now in my fourth season and doing well financially.

What I'm saying is that you can jump in to this game with nothing and make a success of it - but you do have to have supreme confidence in your abilities, be very comfortable with people, and manage client expectations well. That's to say nothing of the business and marketing skills you need. In my view shooting with another pro for years is a waste of time and potential earnings if you have the balls to do it alone. All you are going to learn is how to shoot like them. I've always shot pretty much what I please and then found clients that were drawn to that.

As for the view that couples should make photography a higher priority and cut costs elsewhere to fund it, that's just nonsense - everyone has their own priorities in life, for some photography doesn't score that highly. Last year I shot two weddings in succession - one was higher end, budget probably in excess £50K - they booked my smallest package, the next weekend my fee was greater than the cost of their venue & food for 60 combined - different strokes for different folks.

If you are interested in wedding photography as a profession, it's the most rewarding job I've ever had, I get to go to a party every weekend, and I'm being paid to do what I love the most - learning to take better photos (yes I still learn on the job - shock horror). The flip side I work long hours and miss out on my friends social life at the weekends. You need to enjoy stress, enjoy people and be able to turn out the goods in any situation. It aint easy, but the good things in life never are.

Duncan

 

[Graham_P_Clarke]

I think that this has got out of hand.

But I would like to add one point, Many people are saying the only thing from a wedding is the photos. When I got married 23years ago I could not afford a photographer or car or much at all, infact the most expensive part of my wedding was the registrars fees!!!. I would have loved to have some pictures from the day but I got the most important thing that day my WIFE!!.

 

[Snowball]

These threads always seem to make me chuckle and seethe in equal measures.

The digital world has turned my industry and our hobby on it's head and then over and over again. The market I work in, not weddings btw, has changed as much as the equipment I use to serve it and in some ways the work is harder to getand there is no shortage of snappers crying into their beer about how their living has been eeked away by the unworthy.

My response is always the same...... Tough!

Just get on with it, if you're good enough then the work is still out there. It may take less time now and hence be worth less but that's the way it is. In the olden days of film, jobs took an eternity with polaroids to shoot and waiting on film biked over to the lab. All that time was charged and we raked in the cash. Now, I shoot, the client looks at the laptop, he/she tells me I'm great and we move on.... job done and I issue a much smaller invoice than I would in the days of the big wait.

This is just too much for some snappers. Whether it's the commercial bod like me, the wedding hack like PL or the freelancer shooting for stock.

It's odd that none of them stop to think about the people that used to process their great wads of film, or work over an enlarger to make those beautiful prints....... they have no job left at all and no-one moans for them.

The world has changed. Smile and move with it or shut the f.......ummm, door on the way out.

I work in an industry where we are now being overrun by people coming out of school/university with a lot of skills and my industry (System Design) is now saturated with people, not all of them with the necessary skills, just a basic understanding... I can't post in forums to tell them to stop as it pushes my wages down, just make myself stand out from the crowd!

I keep refering to Duncan Kerridge and Charlotte Geary, but look at their work and you will see that they will stand the test of time as they have produced a style of their own which (in my eyes) is amazing!!!

 

[Matt]

its not going anywhere. As long as people stay civil and polite it will all be fine...

 

[Snowball]

And here is said 'Duncan Kerridge'...