Does this seem fair to you?

nickjohnwatson

nickjohnwatson

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The company i work for has decided to remove occupational health breaks effective immediately. They say if I need an occ health break I have to log out under break and then send whatever length of time it is to my manager and they will amend it so the time comes out of my break allowance. So for example if my break is at 10am and I have a 20min occ health at say 8.45 then it means I now don't have a break at 10am and my next break is reduced by 5 minutes too. I have pretty bad IBS and some days I have upwards of 60 minutes of bathroom breaks a day. This is unavoidable as I have no control over it. I have been referred to occupational health by work and had a meeting with a GP who confirmed that I am perfectly fit to work but do require additional comfort breaks. This hasn't been a problem for the last 2.5 years. I argued that it's unfair as I am not having a personal break at these particular times I'm using them due to a medical condition. Their argument is that everyone else has to use break times to go to the toilet so it's unfair that I have additional and it's costing the company time and money. I work for one of the UKs biggest companies so this shouldn't really be an issue. I wonder what people's thoughts are on it? I think it's unfair and it's basically a way of them telling me that I'm not allowed them any more and a technicality so they can get away with it.
Sorry for the rant but I just wanted your thoughts.

Nick
 
I work for one of the UKs biggest companies so this shouldn't really be an issue.
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I'm trying to understand why working for one of the UK's biggest companies makes your need for breaks more acceptable than if you worked for a small company. Surely the size of the company has nothing to do with it.
 
mickledore said:
I'm trying to understand why working for one of the UK's biggest companies makes your need for breaks more acceptable than if you worked for a small company. Surely the size of the company has nothing to do with it.
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I don't mean that it's more acceptable I just think that it's a bit extreme the actions they're taking :) probably not worded it ideally lol
 
I guess Nick that by being a large company you might think they would know what they were doing when it comes to employing staff and may be more enlightened as a result.

I think other factors would be relevant: How long have you worked there, did you have the condition before you worked for them and to what extent would their new policy affect your ability to do the job are three that spring to mind. Do you have a manager (why are they called line managers now?) you could talk to and perhaps reach a compromise? I would see that as the way forward I think.
 
Have the extra break been agreed with the Occupational Health department?

If so then the company really should honour the agreement. Obviously coming to an amicable compromise is best, but otherwise are you in a union?
 
I've worked here for almost 3 years and I've always had the ability to take an occ health break as as when needed. I've had IBS for years and it was abundantly clear when I applied for the job that it would need to be taken into account so its not a new thing, the new policy won't affect my ability to do my job as such it just means that I basically will never have any breaks as it's going to be all used up with visits to the bathroom. My line manager has no say in it whatsoever it's came from above and has apparently been given the go ahead by HR so I assume it's all legit. The extra breaks were a recommendation from occupational health when I was referred for an independent medical review so it's not like I've just plucked it out of thin air that I need extra breaks but it feels like that's what they think. I don't think they actually realise that it's such as issue. There isn't a union where I work so not sure where I could go with it. It just doesn't seem fair that they've basically said you can only use the time allocated for your breaks when it's already been agreed with the external GP this its already requirement. I've been told that the occ health breaks I've been granted are goodwill already and not a legal requirement. They are saying that they have made reasonable adjustments to help but realistically they haven't.
Nick
 
nickjohnwatson said:
I've been told that the occ health breaks I've been granted are goodwill already and not a legal requirement. They are saying that they have made reasonable adjustments to help but realistically they haven't.
Nick
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I think an employment tribunal would beg to differ with them.
 
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Firstly, I'm sorry you find yourself in this unacceptable situation. It must be making an already pretty difficult issue worse. I'm not an IBS sufferer myself, but I understand that stress can make it worse, so I hope you can sort this out.

But I was just wondering why the company has taken this decision. Is it because too many people are scooting off to the loo too often and thus affecting department performance or productivity? You don't say what type of work you do, but I have worked in office environments in the past, where certain members of staff were "unavailable" for prolonged periods just using it as an excuse to be away from their desks and thus not working. If this is the case, and the actions of a few staff have resulted in this blanket approach of imposing a rule for everyone, then the company's actions seem unfair on those that pull their weight or (as in your case) need breaks more often for medical reasons. This is pretty poor management .... They ought to be dealing with the slackers, not punishing everyone!!

Also, you say you work for a very large organisation, so is this a national policy approved by some central corporate board, or just something imposed locally in your branch/department?

Really hope you can sort this out.

(Edit .... When do you get to have a cuppa? Are you supposed to drink tea whilst you're in the loo?)
 
Quicksnapper said:
Firstly, I'm sorry you find yourself in this unacceptable situation. It must be making an already pretty difficult issue worse. I'm not an IBS sufferer myself, but I understand that stress can make it worse, so I hope you can sort this out.

But I was just wondering why the company has taken this decision. Is it because too many people are scooting off to the loo too often and thus affecting department performance or productivity? You don't say what type of work you do, but I have worked in office environments in the past, where certain members of staff were "unavailable" for prolonged periods just using it as an excuse to be away from their desks and thus not working. If this is the case, and the actions of a few staff have resulted in this blanket approach of imposing a rule for everyone, then the company's actions seem unfair on those that pull their weight or (as in your case) need breaks more often for medical reasons. This is pretty poor management .... They ought to be dealing with the slackers, not punishing everyone!!

Also, you say you work for a very large organisation, so is this a national policy approved by some central corporate board, or just something imposed locally in your branch/department?

Really hope you can sort this out.

(Edit .... When do you get to have a cuppa? Are you supposed to drink tea whilst you're in the loo?)
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I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. They said there's too much unavailable time being used across the department (I work in an EE call centre) so I can only assume there must be people there taking the mikey and doing what they want. It's very frustrating as although I know I shouldn't, I feel guilty when I'm away from my desk. Hopefully I can speak to another manager and ask about it as to me it seems a bit unfair :)
 
having been a call centre office manager and then progressing on to own my own franchise ,i think you will find its probably a small group of friends who have noticed your toilet breaks and taken the attitude if fred/mary or whoever is getting away with it we will/can do the same .so while theres no problem from yourself and your IBS there will be from several people implementing it as well as a skive off excuse .its unfortunate but a fact of life particularly in the younger generation of people that tend to work in call centres.

the other scenario and that does happen as well ( speaking from experience ) is there might have been complaints from other staff members about your frequent and possibly lengthy toilet breaks ,as hopefully its not common knowledge in the entire office about your condition so all they will see is you frequently going to the loo ,and then running to a manager with tittle tattle or if he /she can do it why can't i/we ,believe me this does happen .
 
So, what is going to happen is that because you need to use the toilet more often because of your condition you'll then have to take a shorter lunch break to make up for it and thus you have to bolt your food down . . which in turn then causes you to go to the toilet more often.
 
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If IBS is classed as a disability then it could be considered discrimination.

If you didn't take all the breaks and regularly filled the office with a flatulent stench would they recant I wonder?

I think you need legal advice as it sounds like the first stage of managing you out. Call centres are particularly draconian places to work but as they hired you knowing you had it then I don't see how they can complain much.

I also think you need to publicise the fact you have IBS or at least leave a few information leaflets around so others may realise why you have longer breaks.
 
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viv1969 said:
I think an employment tribunal would beg to differ with them.
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this. strickly speaking a company can't stop you from going to the toilet anyway. They can only do somthing about it if you really take the p*** by going all the time or for extended periods unless you have a medical issue or are pregnant ( you would need proof though). I got told off for going for a pee 30 mins into a shift, I replied tuff I'll go when I need and never heard anything more lol
 
nickjohnwatson said:
. My line manager has no say in it whatsoever it's came from above
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Your line manager needs to grow a pair - part of being a leader is looking out for your people. If something like that came down the pike at work I'd tell my team to ignore it and deal with any jobsworths from HR if/when they found out

End of the day for me as a team leader the acid test is are you achieving your job objectives .. if you are I don't care if you spend half the working day in the toilet. If not we'd have to look at why not, and if the answer was because you were taking too many breaks then may be i'd look at either limiting breaks or altering objectives or both, but I wouldn't hide behind "oh its not my decision"

In this case I'd suggest going back to Oc Health - if they really think you need the breaks then they'll tell your line of command that and all will be cushtie.
 
I don't know why this is being called an "occupational health break", surely this is a reasonable adjustment to your medical condition and you're being unfairly penalised for this condition. Sounds like a misguided dictat has come down from HR and it's being misapplied by line management. Not an uncommon occurence in large organisations.

Speak to Occupational Health, explain that the reasonable adjustments appropriate to your condition that were agreed between you and them are not being honoured by your line manager. Ask Occupational Health to sort this out between your line manager and HR. Ask them to do this today.

If that gets nowhere, ask to speak to an HR manager yourself. You'll need a bit of preperation for this - you'll need to get together all correspondence with your GP that explains the reasonable adjustments required and the previous agreement with Occupational Health. Take a friend with you for this meeting - HR always pay attention when you ask for a meeting and insist on bringing in a friend..


Remember, always use the term "reasonable adjustment" when discussing this with you line manager, occupational health, HR and anyone else that gets involved.
 
I think it's complete bullsh*t that you have to use breaks to use the goddamn toilet! IBS or not, how ridiculous!
 
Eddzz!! said:
I think it's complete bullsh*t that you have to use breaks to use the goddamn toilet! IBS or not, how ridiculous!
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Not all workplaces are the same, and we don't know the nature of the work.
 
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