Does anyone use a CSC for Motorsport?

[Ajf350d]

Just wondering if they are suitable for fast moving objects such as racing cars and also aircraft at airshows?
How is the AF and shutter response on the modern ones?

I have been looking at getting a cheap setup to compliment my main Canon gear, but then got thinking about the possibilities of changing completely!
it would be an Olympus or Fujifilm model whatever I decide.
If I replaced everything then it would be a mid to high end model and would have to have an EVF.

 

[andrewc]

@srhmoto uses a Panasonic M4/3rds with a Tokina 300mm f/2.8 lens and seems to do ok.

http://srhphoto.zenfolio.com/f974055828

 

[Ajf350d]

Thanks.
Looks like he does get some good images, although I notice many are head on rather than fast panning shots.
Bit further reading and it does seem that fast tracking can be an issue so might reassess!

 

[Musicman]

@srhmoto uses a Panasonic M4/3rds with a Tokina 300mm f/2.8 lens and seems to do ok.

http://srhphoto.zenfolio.com/f974055828

That'll probably be the AT-X SD version, which is manual focus, commonly in Canon FD mount and a good performer by all accounts.

 

[Musicman]

Close as I get... Sony A7 + a Contax Zeiss 50mm f/1.7 (manual focus again, so tracking is up to me not the lens) with a bus at about 30 mph, but relatively close quarters compared to a motorsport track, so it may even things out for panning and focus


Stagecoach 18497 [LX06 AHD] by cybertect, on Flickr

 

[pingu666]

the sony a6000 probably has the best af of a csc, but with a long lens a dslr is just a better form factor, the bigger size and extra control of a dslr. For more day to day focal lengths it don't matter

 

[pingu666]

the sony a6000 probably has the best af of a csc, but with a long lens a dslr is just a better form factor, the bigger size and extra control of a dslr. For more day to day focal lengths it don't matter

 

[srhmoto]

That'll probably be the AT-X SD version, which is manual focus, commonly in Canon FD mount and a good performer by all accounts.

It is, and it is

Simon.

 

[srhmoto]

Thanks.
Looks like he does get some good images, although I notice many are head on rather than fast panning shots.
Bit further reading and it does seem that fast tracking can be an issue so might reassess!

Apologies for the late reply - life is a little hectic just now.

In my experience, forget CSC if your mainly interested in using focus tracking for fast action. While newer models such as the OMD EM1, Fuji X-T1 and A6000 already mentioned have moved things on significantly, they still really won't match a good DSLR in that regard even if they'll destroy it in single shot AF acquisition speed and accuracy.

The newer models I've mentioned combine phase detect AF (like all DSLRs have) with the more usual contrast detect AF to give some predictive focus ability so they are the ones to look at if you head in this direction.

Or, if you're shooting Motorsport that tends to have very predictable lines around the circuit, you could get yourself a focus peaking equipped camera and go the manual route like I have. I prefocus on the track, and then use peaking to show me when my target has entered the plane of focus. I find this very effective, although you have to be prepared to miss some shots if the action happens away from where you focused.

Finally, I'm not sure what you mean with your fast panning comment. A car coming straight at or away from the camera is much more difficult to deal with from an AF point of view than a side on pan even if you're using a low shutter speed for the pan. This is because the relative distance between the camera and target is hardly changing at all with a side on pan, but is changing rapidly in the other case. Success with slow shutter pans is much more about the skill of the photographer than being a good measure of how effective an AF system is IMHO. You could of course test both out by using a slow shutter with a vehicle coming straight at you LOL.

Here's an example of a side on pan. From memory, I think I also pre-focused this however focus is fast enough with the current Panasonic and Olympus cameras that it could've been taken in single shot AF mode had I wanted.



Anyway, sorry for the long post but I hope it helps.

Cheers,

Simon.

 

[Ajf350d]

Thank you for your reply. Some helpful points and suggestions in there too, particularly about manual pre focus, which wasn't something I had thought of!
*Single shot AF speed was something I had read in reviews so as you point out at the end that is another way of working with tracking shots.

My thinking regards head on and panning was simply that head on, although the distance is decreasing rapidly, the AF does not have to cope with the background also changing and distracting the AF causing it to switch focus.
I would also suggest that in many cases with head on, you can simply do a single shot, point, AF, shoot technique, *and as above.
With panning I have found, even with my slr, when the background is changing contrast and brightness etc, it can cause the focus to shift off the moving subject. Whether distance changes is very much subjective on where you are.
I have been to Prescott a few times now and track the cars round certain areas so in this instance, as the course is very windy, most areas result in a noticeable focus shift.

My above thoughts obviously assume your ARE using AF!
As you pointed out manual focus is feasible and maybe desirable in some instances and I will certainly give this a shot with my DSLR.

I'll see what my final CSC budget is when I come to buy and decide then whether to go all in!

 

[srhmoto]

Andrew,

Are you letting the camera select the AF point it uses? If you are, my advice would be to pick it yourself. I've no idea what camera you're using, but every DSLR I've used in the past has allowed me to do this and turn down the sensitivity a little to stop the camera immediately trying to refocus if my technique is a little sloppy and I let the AF point selected drift off target or something passes between the camera and target.

After that, it's all down to technique and holding the AF point on an area of high contrast on your target.

For race cars coming straight at you close up at speed with a long lens, single shot AF rarely works as the DoF is usually too thin resulting in one looks like back focus. Having said that, here's an example when it worked, but note there's a lot of right to left movement relative to the camera that helps make it work.



The massive advantage CSC cameras have over conventional DSLRs, particularly CSCs with EVFs and focus peaking, is ease of manual focus. On my G6 I can pre focus using a 10x magnified view with focus peaking, and then when I take the shot at normal viewfinder magnification, the focus peaking give me a blue outline around the high contrast parts of the vehicle as it passes through the focal plane. Much, much easier than using a conventional optical viewfinder.

The legacy lens are also much cheaper, and in many cases as good as their modern day equivalents. Ok they don't have any of the modern coatings so CA can be present wide open, but LR usually deals with that very easily. Put it this way, my pristine Tokina 300mm f2.8 and Canon 100mm f2.8, 135mm f2.0 and 200mm f2.8 in Canon FD mount cost me less than £750. Most of them look like brand new lenses. Of course with the right adaptor, these lenses will work on any CSC you care to mention (all manual of course) so I can change from for example m4/3 to Fuji X or Sony NEX mount and still use the same lenses.

I've just picked up a GX7, and the improvement in EVF and focus peaking sensitivity / control means I think I may be able to dispense with the magnified view when focusing which will speed things up.

This works for me, but certainly won't work for everyone. I just like the look, feel and handling of the older lenses and above all else have a huge amount of fun using them. At the end of the day, that's what it's all about

Cheers,

Simon.

 

[pingu666]

i think having a viewfinder helps with panning, as it keeps the camera more stable. my efforts with sigma dp + teleconverter where worse on average than with my a77, the form factor of a small front heavy hold it in front of you (no evf, just rear screen) csc just isnt ideal.

prefocusing works well

 

[srhmoto]

i think having a viewfinder helps with panning, as it keeps the camera more stable. my efforts with sigma dp + teleconverter where worse on average than with my a77, the form factor of a small front heavy hold it in front of you (no evf, just rear screen) csc just isnt ideal.

prefocusing works well

Couldn't agree more re EVFless CSCs. Even those with an EVF aren't as easy to pan with due to being much smaller and lighter. In my opinion, the very latest EVFs pretty much rival OVFs for most shooting conditions.

Simon.

 

[Ajf350d]

Simon, another really helpful post.
Some points I will definitely be adding when I am next at Prescott or similar.
Interesting regards your choice of legacy lenses. I have thought about this before for my dslr (an EOS 600d) but from reading it seems that Canon are not the ideal bodies to use FD lenses with due to focus.
I think they fail to focus to infinity?
What's tempting about them is the availability of wide aperture at sensible prices - presumably why you went that route?

 

[Musicman]

I have thought about this before for my dslr (an EOS 600d) but from reading it seems that Canon are not the ideal bodies to use FD lenses with due to focus.
I think they fail to focus to infinity?

That's true if you use an FD-EF adapter with no optical element in it. The EF register is longer than that for the FD mount.

There are adapters available which have an optical element, which takes care of this issue and allow infinity focus, it they introduce their own aberrations and distortions - it's not ideal, TBH.

As someone who owns a lot of FD lenses and film bodies and EF gear, I've never bothered with it apart from a plain adapter to use a FD 50mm macro lens with my 5D, where infinity focus doesn't really matter. I've used my FD lenses successfully on m4/3 and Sony E mount.

I'd suggest looking at other mounts if you are serious about MF legacy lenses on modern bodies: FD to CSC or something like Olympus OM to EF.

 

[sound_system]

I tried exactly this for the first time yesterday. Fuji XE-1 with the 50-230mm. It was a bit of a learning curve. I've got a hell of a lot of pictures of half a car and quite a lot of just the track.