Do you use flash?

[Tyke Tiler]

No probs ..... I just thought your opinion was voiced very eloquently. I'm not taking on either side of the discussion as I can see both sides. I do think digital is more difficult than film in many ways as more is expected from digital, the main issue with film was that is wasn't always guaranteed. So more hit and miss.

To be clear, this thread had no place in a pro's/con's film/digital debate in the first place.

It's about using the inverse square law to your advantage when setting up for lighting a shot. Nothing more, nothing less.

Superb and prolific photographers use the ISL as a guide and recommend trying to get your head around it.

Re: using my SB I am getting to grips with it slowly with the help of Dal who has had an SB800 for a while but I'm not at a stage yet to do any fancy stuff ...... i live in hope????

Paul

Nice one but rather than living in hope, get stuck in.

The reason I asked about CLS was to see if you were using the flash on camera or off camera.

If you haven't swiped up a few ebay triggers to sync your flash then, assuming your camera body had an onboard flash, you can trigger your SB using Nikon's CLS.

If you haven't read it already, I recommend the hot shoe diaries, a great explanation and description of the CLS system, how a real world professional and world famous chap works the system when lighting his shots. If your still a little hazy on the subject, the tutorial DVD's are painfully easy to undertsand, the first disc is like watching playschool or similar.

Admittedly, us mortals don't have access to the large number of SB units but the book illustrates that excellent results can be yielded from just a couple of units, well shaped diffusion and imagination.

CLS has it's limitations and restrictions, just like anything else but it's a very capable and simple system.

 

[david1701]

The thing with the inverse square law is you don't do calculations with it you just have in the back of your mind that the band of light exposed at f11 is greater than the band of light at f2.8 because of accelerating fall off. To do actual calculations you would need to take into account the nature of the reflector the reflective qualities of the air and all sorts of things that are really unimportant.

All its really useful for is knowing that a low powered light up close will behave differently to a higher powered light far off as the fall off will be faster (relative to distance) for the closer light.

Ditch the ISL bit and think about rate of all off is proportional to distance away. Lose all the numbers just think in proportional terms and do test exposures.

I'm a technical guy and thats how I like to think about this problem, imho we have digital why not take test exposures so everything is definitely right - not close enough but right

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I'm a technical guy and thats how I like to think about this problem, imho we have digital why not take test exposures so everything is definitely right - not close enough but right

I agree, we can indeed use test exposures to shape our scene but the reason I personally have an interest is that during Zack Arias's 'One Light' DVD, he explains that utilizing the ISL can assist greatly in minimizing the amount of test exposures, allowing you to predict the output of your lighting more closely. I'm a fuss pot and I like things as perfect as I can get them with what I have in the time I have, so I have an interest.

This seems to be a valuable method in time sensitive environments or circumstances where you must act quickly to get the shot you want.

I can here the whiney 'Get a flash meter then you arse' already :nono:

I plan to , but as I'm doing very well without one, it goes on the end of the ever growing list of equipment that I need.

Dustin Diaz does look like he knows what he's doing. :shrug: The proof of the pudding and all that.
I look at his photo's from his 365 project and they inspire and amaze me, he acts very quickly and most of the time he acts alone.
I figure, he must be something right, so I listen and pay attention.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I'm just amazed Diaz has never been mugged

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I'm just amazed Diaz has never been mugged

Damn tootin mate! Within moments of acquiring his D3, Dustin goes out to shoot another shot for his 365 and pays a passer by to take his picture.

Some might says he is a loony tune but IMO, someone who takes risks in the name of their creations, is to be admired.

Da man got ball.

I wouldn't do it.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Damn tootin mate! Within moments of acquiring his D3, Dustin goes out to shoot another shot for his 365 and pays a passer by to take his picture.

Some might says he is a loony tune but IMO, someone who takes risks in the name of their creations, is to be admired.

Da man got ball.

I wouldn't do it.

Don't forget the 200mm f/2 that's usually on the front of said D3

Mind you, given who he works for, I'd imagine he's not short of a bob or two

 

[david1701]

oh lordy i didn't mean use a flash meter right, i mean use an lcd so its right, not technically right as in to the nearest half stop but so it looks right

and been following diaz, respect for keeping ideas flowing every day

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Don't forget the 200mm f/2 that's usually on the front of said D3

Mind you, given who he works for, I'd imagine he's not short of a bob or two

Yessirreee. He's a clever **** and if I had that kinda job I think I'd be able to make a few more risks here and there too

All the more respect to him really, he works full time and does the 365 in his own spare time.

...and been following diaz, respect for keeping ideas flowing every day

 

[Tyke Tiler]

oh lordy i didn't mean use a flash meter right..

I know mate, I was generally assuming that someone may mention that a flash meter would be better than farting around with test exposures and ISL, but not you directly.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

during Zack Arias's 'One Light' DVD, he explains that utilizing the ISL can assist greatly in minimizing the amount of test exposures, allowing you to predict the output of your lighting more closely.

I loved the Onelight DVD but i was surprised that after explaining it in the intro, he didn't actually use the ISL as a guide when starting his shoots later on the DVD.
He's obviously an experienced photographer and knows his gear inside out so it may be misleading, but most of his technique looked to start with a random aperture and flash power with which he could alter using test shots.
Multiple times you hear him say stuff like "i'm on 1/4 power at f/8, well you've got to start somewhere".
It's a fantastic DVD though and well worth the money

 

[Tyke Tiler]

I loved the Onelight DVD but i was surprised that after explaining it in the intro, he didn't actually use the ISL as a guide when starting his shoots later on the DVD.

I can remember him moving his lights around and referring to the intro? It is a two disc set, I'll have to watch it again now

 

[Marvin d martian]

Zack refers to the ISL quite a lot during the DVD's. Explaining how it is employed in real world situations, like lighting groups, making backgrounds go lighter or darker etc.

Mart.

 

[Mangelwurzel]

I can remember him moving his lights around and referring to the intro? It is a two disc set, I'll have to watch it again now

Hehe, well the first shoot starts off with him plonking the light down at an arms length and him declaring he has no scientific method of how he starts.
I do love his laid back approach though and how he talks you through his thought process. Totally inspiring

 

[Tyke Tiler]

Hehe, well the first shoot starts off with him plonking the light down at an arms length and him declaring he has no scientific method of how he starts.

I remember that bit! He's funny though aint he, I love it at the end of the first disc when he shoots with a single alien bee, he gets down in the dirt and shoots from different angles and says 'Ah dammit, now I gorn an git all messeh!'

 

[Mangelwurzel]

Zack refers to the ISL quite a lot during the DVD's. Explaining how it is employed in real world situations, like lighting groups, making backgrounds go lighter or darker etc.

Mart.

Yes thats true. Although i think he refers to it but doesn't actually use it that much. If you listen to his commentary alot is trial and error (and a whole lot of experience of course).
I thought the bit about covering a wedding dance floor to get within a stop was a brilliant tip

 

[Mangelwurzel]

'Ah dammit, now I gorn an git all messeh!'

Aha
I've got to get a t-shirt printed with that on

 

[Mangelwurzel]

Slightly on topic
Dustin Diaz just had his photo taken by Zack Arias at Twitter HQ. Hope we get to see it

 

[david1701]

yeah but you can do ISL calculations in your head without realising and call it 'getting a feeling' same way as catching a ball is differential algebra, really go dammed complex differential algebra with some heavy trig thrown in for good measure