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why not enlighten us ? (other than because I smell an improbable conspiracy theory in the making)
and help to keep the site free for all
Do you eat halal meat?
- Thread starter gramps
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why not enlighten us ? (other than because I smell an improbable conspiracy theory in the making)
POAH
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POAH
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couple of reasons
1/ religious freedom shouldn't be granted above the welfare of animals (or any other law of the land)
2/ animals don't die straight away - cattle can take up to 2 minutes to die which is cruel.
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1/ Don't believe I've said that it should. I think I made it clear that the animal is no worse off with kosher/halal slaughter than by any other method.
2/ Not according to my sources, including the article I linked to.
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How do you determine the actual moment of death? There are reports of heads apparently talking while in the basket under the Guillotine and of Mike, the headless chicken. In what are generally regarded as humane abattoirs, stunned and slaughtered "carcasses" have been known to jerk on the hooks while bleeding out. Best not to think about fish who are (at best) despatched with a blow to the head while most are left to suffocate or be crushed. As for shellfish...
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Well I am sure if you were interested enough you could click about and understand what is emerging in this country as well as most of Europe. Take a look at history, we will reap what we have sown - I dont need to tell you that though...do I?
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how long do you think it takes in a normal slaughter house ? by the time a cow has been shot four or five times with a bolt gun for example .
Also although it can take up to 2 minutes for a cow to die from having its arteries, jugular and wind pipe cut , it will lose consciousness much sooner (also not true of 'normal' uk slaughter methods)
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Its the world government isn't it, they are coming to get us , and remove our right to bare arms
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Which truth? The truth of animal welfare or the truth that Kosher slaughter doesn't seem to be a problem but Halal slaughter does?
Society is in a state of flux, Bill, and it's very far from perfect but I'm not sure that fear or dislike is the right response
Society is in a state of flux, Bill, and it's very far from perfect but I'm not sure that fear or dislike is the right response
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I was being facetious because that's what this kind of thing deserves - it is clear that some people think that this is a creeping islamification of Europe and we will soon be being ruled under sharia law and assorted other stuff
however there is is a teeny flaw in their argument
that being that its utter and complete cobblers with no grounding in reality and based on racist propaganda rather than actual facts
however there is is a teeny flaw in their argument
that being that its utter and complete cobblers with no grounding in reality and based on racist propaganda rather than actual facts
Terrywoodenpic
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Such as.????
Terrywoodenpic
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Jews of course do not Proselytise.......
Moslems do proselytise, and are required in the same way, as Christians are, to spread the word of God.
Most Molsems would prefer to live in a society based around their own beliefs and one that also abides by their own religious laws.
However while their numbers might be growing increasingly fast in much of Europe, they are realists, and whatever they might prefer they realise that they will never become a majority.
What they do hope to achieve is equality, even when that means changing laws to permit and meet the requirements of their own ethic, society, religion and religious Laws.
There is a natural resistance by most Europeans to move in this direction any time soon. As it would significantly change the nature of the European Christian based society. Which is the norm for a majority of the population, whether or not they are practising Christians.
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boyfalldown
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Then you have not thought very deeply about the problem.
boyfalldown
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The fact you think this is a problem, your use of the term 'Moslem' and the general tone of your reply suggests you don't understand what you've written. You're exactly the sort of person this story is aimed at and hopes to provoke into with casual thoughtless racism rather then considered thoughts as to if there is a real issue
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Actually muslims (note the spelling) don't proselytise either - they will accept converts (which Judaism doesn't) but you have to come to the belief yourself. Personally I'm an aetheist , but I used to be good friends with an imam and when I enquired about the whys and wherefores of Islam he gave me an English transaltion of the Quran and basicaly said read this and ask me about anything you don't understand. At no point did he actively try to convert me , and I found discussion with hm significantly less trying than with many of the Christian faith.
Also the law in most western European countries already permits and indeed promotes religious freedom and equality - this has not been brought about by a sinisister campaign by the muslims to undermine western society
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what ? a) the majority of the jewish population world wide are Semites , although of course there are a number of white and indeed black jews , and b) anyone who thinks the jews are fine because the are white needs to open their eyes to the amount of anti jewish action there is in the world (vis the recent issues in the Ukraine for example)
The reason right wing racist propaganda in the Uk tends to focus on muslims (and incidentally there are white and black muslims too) is nothing to do with skin colour , its due to them being an easy target due to the actions of their extremists.
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So Many issues, where to start.
Do you think this is, or may be considered to be, just a little bit racist?
Most religious people would prefer to live in a society based on their own beliefs, just look at some of the 'Christian' arguments in this thread, or even in some of the ukip or national front beliefs "we don't want no Sharon law mate...".
Research from 2012 puts Christianity (all flavours) at around 31% with Islam at around 23%, and let's face it, look at Christianity in this country with only 6% of people who said they were Christians in the 2011 census going to church. Christianity is reducing, Islam is growing, that's a fact. It's a slow process but a fact.
Is it an issue, it shouldn't be, if you read the Koran but let's face it, there's religious fanatics in every religion and Christianity isn't excerpt. Christian crusades, missionaries trying to change the ways of people they meet, the Irish problem.
So, religion should lay down moral rules to live your life by, to build communities, think about others etc. there's always a few that take it the wrong way, interpret it differently in all religions. Does that make everyone who follows that religion wrong?
I've a lot of reasons to hate the Irish, but I realise that's it's just a misguided few and the ones who support them.
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Extremists/fundamentalists of all persuasions are abhorrent.
Ordinary people of faith are just that, ordinary people, as are ordinary people of no faith.
Anti Muslim sentiment is ridiculous nonsense. Anti Jewish, anti Christian, anti Atheist likewise.
Misguided, misplaced nonsense that gives extremists room to manoeuvre.
Ordinary people of faith are just that, ordinary people, as are ordinary people of no faith.
Anti Muslim sentiment is ridiculous nonsense. Anti Jewish, anti Christian, anti Atheist likewise.
Misguided, misplaced nonsense that gives extremists room to manoeuvre.
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only if their mother was a jew - although it depends of course on how orthodox they are and what we mean by 'accept'
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Byker28i
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Speak Hebrew, learn the lessons and just a little snip?
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If the mother is Jewish, the children are Jewish, regardless of the father. They don't need to convert. Anyone is isn't Jewish can convert (Sammy Davis Jr is probably the most famous example)
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Or Elizabeth Taylor when she married Mike Todd!
As Ruth knows, conversion to Judaism is by examination because it is not a proselytising religion ... or as Jack Rosenthal put it in "BarMitzvah Boy" "If you're Jewish, you're Jewish. If you're not Jewish you can't be Jewish!"
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Or Elizabeth Taylor when she married Mike Todd!
As Ruth knows, conversion to Judaism is by examination because it is not a proselytising religion ... or as Jack Rosenthal put it in "BarMitzvah Boy" "If you're Jewish, you're Jewish. If you're not Jewish you can't be Jewish!"
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Moslem and Muslim are alternative spellings (wiki...A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem, is an adherent of Islam) I am old enough to use the spelling most common a few years ago.
You clearly do not understand what I have written, I am totally anti racist and a life long liberal. I worked and lived amongst all the races and religions to be found in Bradford for many years.
However the antagonism and "problem" has become a two way affair, not helped by the efforts of the BNP and UKIP to stir things up and bring things to a head. Today I feel that Moslems have a greater problem with us, than us with them. UKIP might deny that they are in any way racist, but that element certainly gravitates to them.
It would be foolish to pretend there is not a problem. But solving it will now be very difficult.
My expectation is that UKIP will do very well in the coming European elections, and that the latent British fear of foreigners both European and from the Middle East will intensify. As a nation we are becoming increasingly insular. This is a dangerous attitude and dangerous for the future..
boyfalldown
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I clearly understand exactly what you've written. Despite you protestations yours is exactly the unthinking, casual racism that this kind of article intends to provoke.
For your information 'Moslem' refers to one who is 'evil and unjust'. Whereas 'Muslim' refers to one who 'walks with God'. Those are translations from Arabic. I'm sure you can work out why it's considered a derogatory term now. Even if it was in common use once.
Terrywoodenpic
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That is not quite true... My maternal grand mother was Jewish none of her children including my mother, chose to follow that faith and were educated and brought up Christian.
Jewishness is far more than an accident of birth It is a religion with a strong social and ritual tradition. Many Jews have lapsed from their faith but are Jews and Jewish citizens. You have to live as a Jew to be accepted as a Jew.
The Nazis thought is was a matter of blood, and slaughtered thousands of Christians with Jewish grandparents.
The Jewish faith does not look for converts, but nevertheless does accept those prepared to to demonstrate their desire by study under a Rabbi, and by assimilation in to their society in obedience to the law.
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Mus•lim (ˈmʌz lɪm, ˈmʊz-, ˈmʊs-) also Moslem
adj., n., pl. -lims, -lim. adj.
1. of or pertaining to the religion, law, or civilization of Islam.
n.
2. an adherent of Islam.
3. Black Muslim.
[< Arabic, literally, a person who submits. See Islam]
usage: Moslem, once the more widely used form, still has currency but has declined in favor of Muslim. The use of Muhammadan in reference to Islam or its adherents is rejected by Muslims themselves, as is Muhammadanism for Islam.
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.
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From best answers....
Ruchjat K answered
Wa alaikum salam. For me muslim and moslim are the same as the follower of islamic religion who tries hard to obey to all of Allah's commands and prohibitions as stated in the Qur'an and explained in the hadith(submit to Allah swt with ikhlash without force). Muslim(moslem) is not meant as zalim or oppression Zalim is displaced anything in abnormal situation or making crelty to him/herself..
I think we are not allowed to be over sensitive on whatever situation
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Khaild answered 1 year ago
Not really, "Moslem" is the Standard pronunciation to the word "مُسلم" which means in english "Muslim"
So if you're trying to say the word "مُسلم" in arabic, you would say it like this "Moslem". *with "s" not "z"
However, some say a "Moslem" in Arabic means"one who is evil and unjust" when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, Mozlem with a z.
Source(s):
Native arabic speaker and Moslem
You appear to have fallen into the trap of accepting street talk as having authenticity.
Moslem never has had the meaning you suggest.
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boyfalldown
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its telling thats the only reply you can come up with. The only trap I've fallen into is speaking a little arabic for my sins. And understanding enough to translate. Like I said......
but maybe you'd explain how a business decision over the other side of the world is a 'problem'
but maybe you'd explain how a business decision over the other side of the world is a 'problem'
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Well that's yet another curiousity about Judaism. And a relevant one. Within living memory it has been the case that it didn't matter whether you thought you were Jewish or not, like your mother. It turned out that a man in a swastika armband made the decision for you and gave you a one way railway trip across Europe! As a secular and non observant atheist, I assure you that you don't have to live as a Jew to be accepted as one within the faith or sometimes despised as one from outside it.
I heard a lovely story from a bloke I don't know at all well. He was on a business trip to China, I can't remember which city but it wasn't a big or popular touristy one, and a message came over the tannoy asking if there were any Jewish men in the hotel. So he went to reception and it was explained that an old Jewish visitor had just died and his widow was trying to organise a minyan [a quorum of ten] to say the Kaddish prayer over his body ... and in this city in the middle of China they got their minyan!
By the way, I have to say that don't know which I like less. Your being a bit clumsy, trying to define Judaism and Islam or Hugh's calls of racism in a thread that should and might yet return to being a sensible debate about animal slaughter and comparative religion in Britain
boyfalldown
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I have in fact discussed this with a rabbi... However like all subjects you discuss with a Rabbi on religion or anything else, it is rarely more than an opinion.
The Rabbi is a Refom Jew, though his father is an Orthodox Rabbi, and would doubtless have a different view. What I said what what I was told,
so I have not doubted its truth, but accept it is probably not the only truth.
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Well it is true, her children just made a choice to follow a different religion. If they had chosen to follow judaism, they would not have had to convert which is the point I'm making.
As Jonathan said, that isn't true.
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Terrywoodenpic
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I have not been discussing a business decision on the other side of the world, and as far as I know, nor has anyone else.
we started off talking about eating Halal meat, which I very often do. But not as often as I did when I lived in Bradford.
If you speak and write Arabic you know full well that Vowels do not translate.