Do I need a new camera / lens?

^Joe

^Joe

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Joe
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I currently own:

Canon 500D
Tamron 17-50/2.8
Canon 85/1.8
Canon 50/1.8
Couple of zooms.

I mainly enjoy taking pictures of people; parties, weddings, events. All non-business.

I don't feel that the current combo handles high ISO very well - or is it the lenses?

I fancy a new body with the key factor being handling of high ISO. I don't need any fancy gismo's; wifi/thousands of AF points/ tilting screen. etc etc.

I have also been asked by a family member to take some pics at a wedding as a favour, so this is making me slightly concious also.

Canon 5D classic
Canon 6D
Canon 5DII
Canon 7D
Canon 60D

Have all popped into my head... I'd love full frame but can't particularly justify the cost.

Any views at all..? Should I just try to improve what I have? Buy a new lens? Get the 5DC...?

:shrug:
 
I had exactly the same setup as you except no 85mm but had a 55-250. I sold my gear and it covered the cost of a 5D1 and a 24-105L awesome combo! Even did some wedding shots a few weeks ago, 1600 is noise free and 3200 is easily useable :) will post a few shots when I get to my PC but that's my vote :)
 
mata.morrison said:
I had exactly the same setup as you except no 85mm but had a 55-250. I sold my gear and it covered the cost of a 5D1 and a 24-105L awesome combo! Even did some wedding shots a few weeks ago, 1600 is noise free and 3200 is easily useable :) will post a few shots when I get to my PC but that's my vote :)
Click to expand...

Thanks - I have the 55-250 too, I forgot :).

Just had a look at your flickr wedding shots, have they been through any NR at all? They look good at normal size, but at large you can see the noise... am I too picky :lol:

Also, the 5d doesn't go to 6400 does it.. so I'd need faster glass I reckon?

JakeT1992 said:
If you can stretch to a used 5D2 then that would be my choice.
Click to expand...

Is the extra £600 justifiable though? Both in terms of what it can produce, and the fact that it's just a hobby..
 
The wedding shots were through slight nr, mainly because I was shooting in Jpeg and didn't realise :( if it was raw they would be clean. If you look back a wee bit at my night stuff with the 5D there's no nr at all. I too if I had the money would go to a 5D2 but I couldn't justify it at the time and after getting the 5D1 makes even less so :) on as you say it doesn't got to 6400 3200 is highest. Check the 5d owner thread and threads for the other cams to get a good view on what each is capable of :)
 
There is no holy grail to high iso noise free images in a crop camera. Modern full frame will provide a noticeable improvement, but obviously thats mega bucks.

By all means get a new camera - it's ace having new gear - but a massive hike in image quality won't be seen.

The new 70d may be of interest, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

You can't get lenses that much faster than those you've already got, and certainly not for a low price.

I think its worth remembering that non-photographers very rarely notice a little bit of noise, its just us geeky lot that pixel peep!
 
mata.morrison said:
The wedding shots were through slight nr, mainly because I was shooting in Jpeg and didn't realise :( if it was raw they would be clean. If you look back a wee bit at my night stuff with the 5D there's no nr at all. I too if I had the money would go to a 5D2 but I couldn't justify it at the time and after getting the 5D1 makes even less so :) on as you say it doesn't got to 6400 3200 is highest. Check the 5d owner thread and threads for the other cams to get a good view on what each is capable of :)
Click to expand...

Thanks :)

pooley said:
There is no holy grail to high iso noise free images in a crop camera. Modern full frame will provide a noticeable improvement, but obviously thats mega bucks.

By all means get a new camera - it's ace having new gear - but a massive hike in image quality won't be seen.

The new 70d may be of interest, but we'll have to wait and see on that one.

You can't get lenses that much faster than those you've already got, and certainly not for a low price.

I think its worth remembering that non-photographers very rarely notice a little bit of noise, its just us geeky lot that pixel peep!
Click to expand...

So is full frame going to be the biggest improvement in terms of reducing noise?

Re glass; yes, I meant if I had a 5d and a f4 lens.. It probably wouldn't suffice in low light.

I think you hit the nail on the head in your last comment, hopefully anyway!!

Does this look noisy...? ISO 3200 f/1.8

IMG_0200 by ^Joe, on Flickr
 
I wouldn't mind betting that when you showed that photo to the bride the comments were all about the expressions on the face, and there was very little mention of noise, rule of thirds, dynamic range etc.

Its something photographers often forget in the quest for technical perfection. If you want the best improvement for your money, then a 1 to 1 session with an established and well respected photographer will give the 'most improvement per pound'.
 
pooley said:
I wouldn't mind betting that when you showed that photo to the bride the comments were all about the expressions on the face, and there was very little mention of noise, rule of thirds, dynamic range etc.
Click to expand...

Very good point. Are the photographs for you to view at 100% crop and admire how sharp there are and how amazing the noise handling is or are they for someone else to view who is not bothered by such things?
 
ernesto said:
Very good point. Are the photographs for you to view at 100% crop and admire how sharp there are and how amazing the noise handling is or are they for someone else to view who is not bothered by such things?
Click to expand...

I mostly agree but gotta keep in mind what the final image will need to look like including the image size and how fussy the viewer is.

If it's just for on line or on screen viewing as a whole image or a small print then many camera and lens combinations will be perfectly good enough but if the image is likely to be printed big and looked at by fussy people then the gear could matter.

Thankfully not many images are printed so big that the little faults we see when pixel peeping matter.
 
I just can't decide on this...!!

Will the 5D offer any improvements over a 500D in terms of image quality ?

Noise handling isn't a huge concern to me now, as the above has dictated.

Again, this is purely a hobby and I can't justify a £1k camera body... plus the upgrade in lenses
 
Never having used a 5D I can't comment on image quality from experience but can say you won't need to upgrade your lenses as they are excellent quality. Maybe a 70-200 2.8 would be nice but that's to extend your lens range and not an upgrade.
 
^Joe said:
I'd need a wider zoom, 24/70 etc wouldn't I?


Unless I kept the 500d of course
Click to expand...

What's with the fixation on zoom lenses ;)
Last year I covered a wedding with just a 50mm and 135mm.
http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Blog/2012-09-15-Toby-and-Clares/25421801_bP7Qqn
The main difference to your current setup is that 50mm feels a lot wider on full frame. You need to factor this into the mix when thinking of upgrading.

Having a second body always makes sense.
I usually have a long lens on one and a wide one on the other; plus if one of them goes pear shaped then I'm still OK.
That's not just for weddings, it goes for any situation you wouldn't want to be without your camera. When I go on holiday, a second body goes with me but usually stays in the suitcase.

Edited to add: Jaffa Cakes and Beer . . . P-E-R-F-E-C-T !!!!!!!
 
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@ Joe

Are you shooting RAW and using noise reduction, possibly selectively, when post processing?

Re the wedding, are you the main photographer?
For most shoots, I also have two bodies (5D & 40D) and back up lenses.
I am hobbyst who sometimes has "clients".
 
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RichardTaylor said:
@ Joe

Are you shooting RAW and using noise reduction, possibly selectively, when post processing?

Re the wedding, are you the main photographer?
For most shoots, I also have two bodies (5D & 40D) and back up lenses.
I am hobbyst who sometimes has "clients".
Click to expand...

Hi Richard,

I will be shooting RAW for this family wedding which I am the main Tog.

I actually haven't used any NR in the past, but will do if desperate.
 
Take a look at this thread which explains about high pass sharpening, it's been the best way I've found and well worth a read.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=28733
And you don't need to be desperate to sharpen an image I do it all the time, but then again perhaps my images need it more lol. The author of that thread is also a top class wedding photographer.
 
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^Joe said:
I just can't decide on this...!!

Will the 5D offer any improvements over a 500D in terms of image quality ?

Noise handling isn't a huge concern to me now, as the above has dictated.

Again, this is purely a hobby and I can't justify a £1k camera body... plus the upgrade in lenses
Click to expand...

You might want to read the following review's high ISO section, it has some comparison images. It seems the 5Dii is better then the 500D at high ISO (expected) but the 50D isn't (unexpected).

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-Rebel-T1i-500D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx
 
Dave1 said:
You might want to read the following review's high ISO section, it has some comparison images. It seems the 5Dii is better then the 500D at high ISO (expected) but the 50D isn't (unexpected).

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-Rebel-T1i-500D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx
Click to expand...

That's a very useful website Dave - thanks. 500D ain't too shabby is it :lol:

There's no direct comparison to the 5D which is a shame.

I went to the venue to fire off some shots, and in the ceremony, I shot f2.8, ISO1600 and achieved 1/60th, which is a little slow for me.

If I shot with a 5D, I'd need ISO3200, Which will push the boundaries!
 
^Joe said:
I just can't decide on this...!!

Will the 5D offer any improvements over a 500D in terms of image quality ?

Noise handling isn't a huge concern to me now, as the above has dictated.

Again, this is purely a hobby and I can't justify a £1k camera body... plus the upgrade in lenses
Click to expand...

yes, 5D will be a massive improvement. I went from a 40D to a 5dC and have been delighted. Friend of mine actually went from a 600D to a 5dC after trying mine. Personally I wasn't bothered about the fact its older kit without all the newer features when I seen what even I can get from it with my limited skills. Only thing I miss occasionally is live view for night time shots where I would have zoomed manually, but its not a huge thing. Largest print i've had from a shot so far is 24x48 pano shaped print and the quality is fantastic.
 
my flickr is very disorganized at the minute so i'll post them here for you with details. All these were shot with a Canon 17-40 f4L lens.

f4, 40mm ISO800 and approx 50% crop
9075552343_4e16acb766_b.jpg


f11, 1/125 ISO50 40mm
9075463871_128502a2b7_k.jpg


f11, 3 minute exp ISO50
8877032597_f9b6a849f2_b.jpg


f16, 51 seconds, ISO50
9219907929_3c2c0b3955_b.jpg


This one was shot at ISO800 by mistake
f9, 0.4, ISO800
9278339603_6fab46df80_b.jpg
 
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I dont have any proper shots as I dont normally shoot at high ISO unless its an absolute must, 800 is very high for me. Give me 2 minutes and i'll fire off a couple here in the room of a bottle or something as examples.

as for the ISO in the VF, when you press the button on the top LCD to adjust the ISO you can see it in the VF and can adjust without taking your eye down, but its not visable in the VF until you press the button. Again, not a big issue IMO, at least you can see it when adjusting.
 
ok, just picked up the camera, stuck my 50mm on and fired off 2 shots, straight from camera JPEG, no NR, no fiddling with anything at all. Not brilliant and I must admit ive seen much better, but at least it will give you a quick example, by comparison I would estimate the 3200 below is cleaner than my old 40D was at 800 ISO.

ISO1600
9465325744_3ce9916510_b.jpg


ISO3200
9462560523_20164cfd68_b.jpg
 
there was no direct flash, I angled a side light on the other side of the room to thrown it this direction as curtains are closed and i'm about to hit the hay after nightshift so room is pretty dark. You can see the reflection in the middle of the curve of the bottle.
 
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