Do Flashgun diffusers work?

[wonderer]

As title really.

Im looking to get a decent Nikon flashgun and will bounce the flash where available but what about when you want / need to have the flash directly at the subject? Do the mini soft boxes and other diffusers work well and do you have any recommendations at all?

 

[realspeed]

I have the SB600 and SB900 both with clip over diffusers. First thing is how much light do they produce? The SB900 is a really powerful flash but has a lot of controls to regulate the light spread before the diffuser is attached.

So the answer initially to your question is yes up to a point. Like everything in photography taking a photo, be it flash or normal, depends on the situation its going to be used under.

If you can afford it the SB900 really takes some beating for brightness-distance and spread. It also comes with coloured inserts for shooting under different lights. I could have adjusted the spread- brilliance-bounce etc etc on the SB900 but I felt that wouldn't give a true idea of what the clip over diffuser can do


Without diffuser

With diffuser

Taken with sb900 absolutely as taken no prior camera or SB900 setup or alteration to either, just resized for here and under flourescent lighting to give some idea. SB900 pointing straight ahead in both cases. Yes If I had used the coloured plastic insert would make a difference, but the idea was just to show the same shot with and without the SB attachment.

if you asked which Nikon SB flashgun to use I am more than happy with the SB900. It has 3 built in flash patterns to choose from to name just a few of the settings including auto adjust for distance. The setting list is far too long to put on here.

Oh by the way I had just cooked some sausages and eggs hence the frying pan, and they tasted just great

Hope this helps


Realspeed

 

[HoppyUK]

As title really.

Im looking to get a decent Nikon flashgun and will bounce the flash where available but what about when you want / need to have the flash directly at the subject? Do the mini soft boxes and other diffusers work well and do you have any recommendations at all?

Flash diffusers redirect the light to a large surface, like the ceiling or a wall, and it is this much larger area that does the work of softening the light, and usually it then comes at the subject from a more attractive angle too. Eg, use a Stofen diffuser cap indoors with a white ceiling and you'll get a nice result, but take it outdoors with nothing to bounce the light off and it does nothing, except blast light into nowhere.

Size of the light source is everything, and bear in mind that size is relative to distance. Therefore, if you have a mini softbox on-camera that will deliver softer light than a bare gun, and a bigger softbox will make it softer still. The usual restriction with on-camera attachments is size is restricted by practical considerations.

 

[magicaxeman]

The lumiquest is the best of the on camera options I've used.

Off camera I had a interfit XS softbox that had a fitting for a speed light and I had also planned to explore the interfit strobies set as the globe and other fittings looked useful.

 

[realspeed]

Agree with Richard. Using a flashgun is a whole new section of photography which takes some learning. Some cameras don't have the facility to work as a main control unit, so a flashgun will only work when fitted to the hotshoe. Other cameras in the Nikon range the popup flash an work as a master to control remote SB guns. The SB900 can work straight off the hotshoe- as a main controller to other guns- or remotely. The SB600 does't have the facility to work as a main controller but will work remotely or on the hotshoe.

AS Richard rightly says you can get lost in the realm of bounce flash- coloured filters-soft boxes- tungston or flourescent or even day/night use. Gets confusing don't it? yes there is a whole lot more to using a flash gun than one would think which is why I strongly recommend the SB900.

Realspeed

 

[Phil V]

I have the SB600 and SB900 both with clip over diffusers. First thing is how much light do they produce? The SB900 is a really powerful flash but has a lot of controls to regulate the light spread before the diffuser is attached.

So the answer initially to your question is yes up to a point. Like everything in photography taking a photo, be it flash or normal, depends on the situation its going to be used under.

If you can afford it the SB900 really takes some beating for brightness-distance and spread. It also comes with coloured inserts for shooting under different lights. I could have adjusted the spread- brilliance-bounce etc etc on the SB900 but I felt that wouldn't give a true idea of what the clip over diffuser can do


Without diffuser

With diffuser

Taken with sb900 absolutely as taken no prior camera or SB900 setup or alteration to either, just resized for here and under flourescent lighting to give some idea. SB900 pointing straight ahead in both cases. Yes If I had used the coloured plastic insert would make a difference, but the idea was just to show the same shot with and without the SB attachment.

if you asked which Nikon SB flashgun to use I am more than happy with the SB900. It has 3 built in flash patterns to choose from to name just a few of the settings including auto adjust for distance. The setting list is far too long to put on here.

Oh by the way I had just cooked some sausages and eggs hence the frying pan, and they tasted just great

Hope this helps


Realspeed

That 2nd shot is underexposed, when you up the levels you'll see it's almost identical to the 1st.
So I'd guess it proves that a straight on flash with or without a diffuser is almost exactly the same thing. If you want to see some different effects from flash you have to work a bit more to change the light pattern on the subject.

 

[wyx087]

Those tiny boxes that apparently defuse the light doesn't do anything apart from make them spread into nothingness.

So no, those tiny plastic white box doesn't work. I laugh at photographers waiting outside a court room with those fitted, wasting battery.


Take control of the light, first get remote triggers then buy lightstand and softbox/umbrella, then light the subject using a large light source off camera.

Rogue Flashbender, however, does work. You control the light, you decide whether to bounce it off ceiling, and you decide the size of the light source. With the flashbender, I've managed to light a subject with ceiling bounce plus direct fill light from a single flash.

 

[Gary Coyle]

Those tiny boxes that apparently defuse the light doesn't do anything apart from make them spread into nothingness.

So no, those tiny plastic white box doesn't work. I laugh at photographers waiting outside a court room with those fitted, wasting battery.


Take control of the light, first get remote triggers then buy lightstand and softbox/umbrella, then light the subject using a large light source off camera.

Rogue Flashbender, however, does work. You control the light, you decide whether to bounce it off ceiling, and you decide the size of the light source. With the flashbender, I've managed to light a subject with ceiling bounce plus direct fill light from a single flash.

No good if you are the one waiting outside court though and no good if shooting a Rugby team winning the cup final trophy either so i laugh at you now. :bonk:

 

[wyx087]

No good if you are the one waiting outside court though and no good if shooting a Rugby team winning the cup final trophy either so i laugh at you now. :bonk:

haha, touche.

well then, use a flashbender or mini-softbox or not bother at all. Out doors those white plastic diffusers just does NOT work.

 

[Phil V]

No good if you are the one waiting outside court though and no good if shooting a Rugby team winning the cup final trophy either so i laugh at you now. :bonk:

But the best you can do in those situations is to work with on camera flash primarily as fill. Fitting a stofen to bounce it off the sky (I've seen plenty do it) is completely futile.

 

[Gary Coyle]

But the best you can do in those situations is to work with on camera flash primarily as fill. Fitting a stofen to bounce it off the sky (I've seen plenty do it) is completely futile.

I think its more likely they forgot it was on, i did when i was second shooting my brother in laws wedding when we went for the outside photos so a big to myself

 

[realspeed]

Phil

I think you may have missed the point of those 2 photos, so let me explain.

The reason of posting was to do a exact comparison same shot same settings with and without the diffuser only.

Under exposing has nothing to do with the reason for showing the difference. If I had altered the settings then it wouldn't be an exact comparison which was the aim


Realspeed

 

[Phil V]

Phil

I think you may have missed the point of those 2 photos, so let me explain.

The reason of posting was to do a exact comparison same shot same settings with and without the diffuser only.

Under exposing has nothing to do with the reason for showing the difference. If I had altered the settings then it wouldn't be an exact comparison which was the aim

Realspeed

What do you believe the pictures show?

Because the under exposure is the biggest difference and as a photographer that's quite important to me. Whereas once the exposure is adjusted, there's virtually no difference at all, again, that's quite important too.

So what conclusions did you draw?

 

[realspeed]

Oh phil

The pictures show the difference between using a diffuser and not using a diffuser and thats all.

Under or over exposure is NOT the reason for posting the pictures.

I just don't know how much clearer I can make it for you to understand

Realspeed

 

[Phil V]

Oh phil

The pictures show the difference between using a diffuser and not using a diffuser and thats all.

Under or over exposure is NOT the reason for posting the pictures.

I just don't know how much clearer I can make it for you to understand

Realspeed

Well then I am baffled

 

[HoppyUK]

Oh phil

The pictures show the difference between using a diffuser and not using a diffuser and thats all.

Under or over exposure is NOT the reason for posting the pictures.

I just don't know how much clearer I can make it for you to understand

Realspeed

Diffuser caps are supposed to be pointed upwards, to send the majority of the light to the bounce surface, ie ceiling.

If you don't do that, outdoors there will be zero difference compared to not using it, apart from wasted light, and indoors very little. It can also upset TTL readings that use predominently distance information for exposure control when the head is pointed forward, resulting in under-exposure. When the head is tilted or rotated, distance data is disabled.

In defense of press photographers that use diffuser caps outdoors, to give them the benefit of the doubt, when you're close as is often the case (and have power to spare anyway) then tilting the head upwards raises it a useful few inches higher for better shadows rendition.

 

[orangeframestudio]

I use the lastolite ezybox, the difference is 100% worth it!
With...

Without...

 

[Phil V]

I use the lastolite ezybox, the difference is 100% worth it!
With...

Without...

At that distance with that size subject, it definitely is.

Try the same shot at 200mm and you'll find the result nearer 2 than 1 :thumbsdown:.

It's not about a particular modifier, it's about the apparent size and shape of the light source, and the further away you move the flash, the smaller it becomes.

Add the direction of the light and the only conclusion is that on camera flash should be bounced if possible, and if its not possible (no suitable surface to bounce off), use a modifier to create as large a light source as possible.

 

[wonderer]

Thank you all for your responses. So can I ask your go to methos when shooting portraits/groups outdoors or in a space where bounce is not possible? Do you use your flash gun head on and diffuse the flash somehow, if so with with what?

Rich

 

[orangeframestudio]

Like Phil said, effectively the further away from the subject the difference becomes less, (simple math really) . If I have 24-70 on and doing group shots with occasional head shots I leave it on. Never had an issue where the odd stop it loses is missed, so no harm in leaving it on.
I think it softens a bit of fill light nicely at 10-15 feet max. As for using anything else, would depend on how much time there was to set up and if mobility was important which it usually is.

 

[Phil V]

If you're outside using the flash as fill, it doesn't need softening, all it's doing is adding light into the natural shadows, so it's not creating shadows of its own. (Flash modifiers are changing the nature of the shadows).

As above, it doesn't really matter if you leave it on.

Indoors, a bounce surface is the best modifier you can get, and where bounce isn't possible, no modifier will be much help unless you're really close.

In practical terms its quite rare not to be able to bounce flash, if the shots important ask someone to hold a reflector behind you or to the side and bounce off that.

 

[Steve Smith]

Those tiny boxes that apparently defuse the light doesn't do anything apart from make them spread into nothingness.

A diffuser is fine inside where rather than spreading into nothingness, the light bounces off of walls and the ceiling and adds to the scene.

Outside you are right, it is wasted. A reflector would make better use of the light.

ask someone to hold a reflector behind you or to the side and bounce off that.

I was thinking more of a flash mounted reflector like this one I made for my Vivitar 285:

Steve.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thank you all for your responses. So can I ask your go to methos when shooting portraits/groups outdoors or in a space where bounce is not possible? Do you use your flash gun head on and diffuse the flash somehow, if so with with what?
Rich

Have a look at Lumiquest, they make the best flash modifiers IMHO. They work, and their marketing is refreshingly free of the BS that seems to be so common with these things. Plus they have the big practical advantage of folding away flat so I always have one to hand.

For your specific situation, I would go for their Big Bounce, here http://store.lumiquest.com/lumiquest-big-bounce/ It's as large as reasonably possible on-camera, and because it works with the head pointed upwards, it gains a few inches of extra height. This makes shadows more attractive, and if the subject is near a wall or something and the flash is projecting shadows there, it will put them a little bit lower and hopefully hidden behind.

I agree with what Phil says about a larger light source being of less benefit for fill-in outdoors, where the effect is subtle and secondary to the main ambient light source (the pop-up flash works quite well for that) but that's not always the case. If your subject is strongly back-lit, which is an effect that looks particularly good, faces will be in full shadow and the quality of the flash light is very important. Therefore bigger is better and for outdoor portraits I have a rig with a 20in softbox on an adjustable camera bracket. It works great, but is extremely cumbersome and you look like a right idiot using it, so it's not for everyday

My default flash accessory is the Lumiquest Quik Bounce here http://store.lumiquest.com/lumiquest-quik-bounce/ It's extremely versatile, works indoors and out, and always adds something beneficial. In the right situation, ie with a good bounce surface to work with, results are excellent. Outdoors the extra size of the light source makes a noticeable distance when you're close, say solo portaits and couples, but when you have to move back for groups it's really no better than using a bare gun.

The key to all these things is an understanding of how light works, and then applying that to the situation. With knowledge, you can get great results from a simple bounce card (just a small piece of card attached with a rubber band, or like this www.abetterbouncecard.com) or really go to town with a plastic milk bottle that can work as well as the most expensive flash accessory attachment.