Dispatches & Care abuse

cambsno

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Only saw bits of the program tonight, but shocked and disgusted by what I saw. Both in terms of the people giving the 'care' and by those companies exploiting the elderly, their staff and the taxpayer

Doubt anything will change, will all blow over in a weeks time but this is one thing we need to take back into the hands of local councils. Scrap paying companies for this and employ people to spend time and actually care for these people who need it. Make it a caring role rather than a functioning one.

Luckily I believe my nan had decent care when she had it and had a warden on her shelters block to assist but many people are not so lucky.

Seriously, those staff filmed should be prosecuted.
 
I've seen it as well... No surprised as I've heard it before. But to see it was a little bit hard to take. It's not about wages or training. If you don't like the carer job, have a look for something else and don't abuse vulnerable people.
 
There are always 2 sides to every story. Some time ago I visited an elderly friend, her husband had a carer coming in 4 times a day. Because of their financial position they had to pay for it all themselves, but that shouldn't make any difference.

While I was there, a very pleasant young lady came in, she showered and dressed him and got him into his armchair. She may or may not have left before her allocated time was up, but she did everything that she needed to do for him. We had a brief conversation, and it turned out that she has to travel to each job by public transport and doesn't get paid either for travelling time or travelling costs, so is earning well below the minimum wage, and yet provided what seemed to me to be a very high standard of care.
 
There are always 2 sides to every story. Some time ago I visited an elderly friend, her husband had a carer coming in 4 times a day. Because of their financial position they had to pay for it all themselves, but that shouldn't make any difference.

While I was there, a very pleasant young lady came in, she showered and dressed him and got him into his armchair. She may or may not have left before her allocated time was up, but she did everything that she needed to do for him. We had a brief conversation, and it turned out that she has to travel to each job by public transport and doesn't get paid either for travelling time or travelling costs, so is earning well below the minimum wage, and yet provided what seemed to me to be a very high standard of care.

Indeed. My mum's a carer and is much loved by all her clients and feels that love in return. Whilst she's a batty old lady herself almost, she does go to extraordinary lengths outside of her own professional and financial remit to do what she can. Bits of shopping in her lunch 'break' etc, and is genuinely mortified by how carers are portrayed in 'the media'. A few bad apples spoil the bunch. All for next to nothing in monetary terms, I know for one I couldn't do it.
 
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I've seen it first hand.

Minimum wage, minimum training.

What do you expect.

By you, I don't mean "you".

Seriously?
Even if working for free, with NO training, I expect them not to abuse anyone in their care.
 
Seriously?
Even if working for free, with NO training, I expect them not to abuse anyone in their care.

I think they have unrealistic targets set on them and many visits are limited to 15 minutes, before dashing to the next one. But then, if its a private company what do you expect, and you do need to keep to some sort of timetable so people know when you will turn up and is important for medication. But there is a real issue with some who just lie.
 
I think they have unrealistic targets set on them and many visits are limited to 15 minutes, before dashing to the next one. But then, if its a private company what do you expect, and you do need to keep to some sort of timetable so people know when you will turn up and is important for medication. But there is a real issue with some who just lie.

Whilst I agree, there is NO excuse IMO for abusing someone in your care. Not money, not stress...nothing.
 
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I think the thing that many forget when programs like this air is the vast majority of carers that provide brilliant care day in day out, these people are on the same pay as the bad carers, they have the same training etc to suggest that poor pay etc is the cause of poor care is utter rubbish, because it's not these bad carers could be on the £100,000 per year they would still be nasty evil people and that is the core, it's not the pay its the person, thankfully for every bad carers there are a 1000 great carers..it's true they are nearly all over worked and under resourced, but until either tax is raised or what is already collected is better spent nothing is going to change on that front

What is criminal and I have direct experience of this is that a private care company can pay the same as a local authority but still manage to provide the care at a lower cost to the council than direct employed carers, that shows just how much wastage and eneptitude there is in the local authority systems..
 
I think I should make myself clear as my post has been interpreted in a way I didn't intend.

That's my own fault for not being clearer.

First, of course many, in fact the majorityof carers, are excellent.

Second, low pay does not cause poor care, obviously. That would be an utter logical phallacy. There is no excuse for abuse. I am surprised, even with my lack of explanation, that link has been made.

Low pay does restrict the numbers of capable people into the industry.

Poor training does impact on quality of care, just as it impacts on the quality of any service. Poor training does allow people to slip through the net who would otherwise be picked up.
 
I think the thing that many forget when programs like this air is the vast majority of carers that provide brilliant care day in day out, these people are on the same pay as the bad carers, they have the same training etc to suggest that poor pay etc is the cause of poor care is utter rubbish, because it's not these bad carers could be on the £100,000 per year they would still be nasty evil people and that is the core, it's not the pay its the person, thankfully for every bad carers there are a 1000 great carers..it's true they are nearly all over worked and under resourced, but until either tax is raised or what is already collected is better spent nothing is going to change on that front

What is criminal and I have direct experience of this is that a private care company can pay the same as a local authority but still manage to provide the care at a lower cost to the council than direct employed carers, that shows just how much wastage and eneptitude there is in the local authority systems..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...estigated-for-exploiting-underpaid-staff.html
 
I think the thing that many forget when programs like this air is the vast majority of carers that provide brilliant care day in day out, these people are on the same pay as the bad carers, they have the same training etc to suggest that poor pay etc is the cause of poor care is utter rubbish, because it's not these bad carers could be on the £100,000 per year they would still be nasty evil people and that is the core, it's not the pay its the person, thankfully for every bad carers there are a 1000 great carers..it's true they are nearly all over worked and under resourced, but until either tax is raised or what is already collected is better spent nothing is going to change on that front

What is criminal and I have direct experience of this is that a private care company can pay the same as a local authority but still manage to provide the care at a lower cost to the council than direct employed carers, that shows just how much wastage and eneptitude there is in the local authority systems..
Basically I agree, but a couple of obvious points.
1. The programme makers are trying to make a point, and even if their reporting is factual an honest, they will always promote their own angle and so will always ignore the majority of good carers and only show the bad ones.
2. The pay is so low that the employers aren't going to be too fussy about who they take on, and they may not want to act properly when they receive complaints. Every profession and occupation has its bad apples, people who try to cut corners, cheat, lie and steal, but if they are well paid and there is a healthy level of competiton for their jobs, then their employers are more likely to vet them carefully and to investigate complaints properly.

There may well be wastage and ineptitude in the public sector, but the real difference here is that the public sector employers will pay for proper training, proper supervision etc and won't force their employees to work for less than the minimum wage - surely that's the reason why the private companies can provide the care at a lower cost - if indeed they do. But I remember reading somewhere that the care providers are paid something like £13+ per hour for the care that they are contracted to provide, yet they are (theoretically) paying out only £7.20, so are making substantial profits.
 
That Telegraph article states that the minimum wage is £6.50/hour. According to the gov.uk site,

Year........................... 25 and over 21 to 24 18 to 20 Under 18 Apprentice
April 2016 (current rate) £7.20.......... £6.70..... £5.30..... £3.87....... £3.30

so £6.50 is simply wrong. In fact, £6.50 as a minimum wage for 25s and over is from 2014.

(Source, https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates )
 
o £6.50 is simply wrong. In fact, £6.50 as a minimum wage for 25s and over is from 2014.

It could be right, depending on how you read it.

The article is from Feb. 2015.

The gov.uk link you provided gives £6.50 as the rate for 2014, but states that the rates were usually updated every October.

So, was the rate of £6.50 introduced in Oct. 2014?

I don't know.
 
But I remember reading somewhere that the care providers are paid something like £13+ per hour for the care that they are contracted to provide, yet they are (theoretically) paying out only £7.20, so are making substantial profits.
The one that I am personally aware of charge £17.50 per hour, billed in 15 mins slots.
The carers are on min wage, and are only paid while they are "caring"
They don't get paid while driving from client to client, but do get an ( undisclosed) fuel allowance.
 
The one that I am personally aware of charge £17.50 per hour, billed in 15 mins slots.
The carers are on min wage, and are only paid while they are "caring"
They don't get paid while driving from client to client, but do get an ( undisclosed) fuel allowance.

A friend does this type of caring (15 minute slots and not paid in-between clients and uses her own car) and I think she said she gets about 15p per mile.
 
The one that I am personally aware of charge £17.50 per hour, billed in 15 mins slots.
The carers are on min wage, and are only paid while they are "caring"
They don't get paid while driving from client to client, but do get an ( undisclosed) fuel allowance.

So the people "running" the service are coining it, while the people doing the work aren't?

My, my. What a surprise in a country "managed" by Call Me Dave and the Osbucks.

:D
 
So the people "running" the service are coining it, while the people doing the work aren't?
Its tough at the top Eh? :rolleyes:

But of course its the way of any businesses, I know these are people lives, "They are dealing with"
however I bet (?) tescsainsasda et al are pretty much the same, shop floor workers on min wage and the directors on slightly more I would guess.
 
however I bet (?) tescsainsasda et al are pretty much the same, shop floor workers on min wage and the directors on slightly more I would guess.

Indeed. Perhaps, though, we should aspire to something better.

Things do get better, when we work to make them so: compare the health and wealth of the average British citizen today with that of their 19th Century counterpart. I'd like to think that, as a society, we still have the drive that replaced the workhouse with the Welfare State.
 
Pretty much all "agencies" charge top dollar to the client, and pay the operators peanuts in my experience.
 
Speaking as someone who relies on carers every day of the week (3.5 hours a day + additional overnights when needed) my findings are:

The split between good carers and bad carers (bad includes those that skip out early) is about 50-50.
When it comes to care companies though there are more bad ones than good ones.
The majority of companies want the carers in and out as quickly as possible and I've had 1 hour visits where the carer has left after 20 mins!! at their bosses behest.
The quality of care varies greatly but more and more I'm hearing of and seeing carers who have a whole list of things they won't do and to be honest such carers just make you feel self conscious and embarrassed.
I've had everything from carers that refused to wash me below the waist for 6 months leaving me with such a bad fungal infection that the district nurse cried when she saw the state I was in, I've had others who have left the toilet blocked, outside doors open, cookers on, served me food that was off because they never checked it (this includes green bread & cheese) left me without water and even blown out the electrics and instead of resetting the fuse box just walked out and left me without any power or heating!!, I've been verbally abused, shouted at, sworn at and threatened as well, Finally I've even had one who at 19 would just bang on about her sex life all the time and the drugs she took, even to the point of popping her tits out and boasting about the love bites on them she got from the 60 yr old pub landlord she sh.......d the night before.
Of course I reported her but what happened? she accused me of being sexually inappropriate in conversation and the care company ditched me and left me with no care!! (I hadn't done what she said btw)
The worst case I ever had was the owner of the care company turning up one morning asking me if I had any sleeping tablets she could have, crying and shouting about her relationship, I refused of course, she was found later that day collapsed on the street after having drunk a considerable amount as well as having taken an overdose of various tablets!!


I now have a very good care company and a good regular carer I can rely on who is a consumate professional, as I type she's sleeping in the spare room used for the carers who stay overnight (I'm having a bad patch at the mo)
other carers who come in are by and large pretty good as well and I will no longer suffer/tolerate bad care but I have one major advantage, I still have all my marbles (well I may have lost the odd one or two) and the ability to speak up that others especially the elderly don't have.

I can tell you this, as a fairly strapping 6ft er I have always felt safe and secure but living like this makes you feel totally vulnerable, your safety and the quality of your life & health depend completely on others and there is nothing you can do yourself to protect yourself in any way shape or form.
I feel so much for others in a worse position than myself and those who are older or have dementia who are even more vulnerable than I.
I've been reduced to a blubbering wreck by abusive carers & companies so how much worse must it be for them? it must be a living hell with them praying for death so they can escape it.

Whats the solution?

The whole industry needs to be put on a professional footing rather than its current one of minimum wage outfit's hiring from the shallow end of the gene pool.

Anyone can set up a care company/home, all they need to do is fill in the forms and pay the fee the CQC charges as well as pass the basic background check. It shouldn't be that easy, they should have to demonstrate a sound working knowledge of the business in all its aspects and preferably have the highest level of NVQ related to caring
.
Carers should receive proper training, not the training they get now where those examining them will allow them multiple chances to pass the modules they do and even on occasions give them the answers, I'm not joking when I say that no one ever fails these tests, ever, all are passed.

They not only need basic training but also specialist training, for instance I'm diabetic and need to inject, so you would expect a carer to understand how important it is that you eat at the right times but I've had carers leave me with no food because the bread was mouldy and they wouldn't go to the local shops for more!

ALL carers should have first aid training.

Carers should at least be allowed travelling time, they can't magically appear 3 miles away and start the next shift when the one with me finishes at the same time as the other starts!

For those of use like myself who qualify for help with out care costs, the help we get should be paid at the market rate, not well below as it currently is and care should be sourced by local authorities based on location and quality not on cost, that way we won't see people from one county being sent to another just because the residential care is cheaper at that place, removing the person from regular contact with family , friends and their often long serving GP who knows them well.
I personally dread the day they tell me I have to go into residential care, it terrifies me because I know I will be moved away from my family into the cheapest accommodation they can find staffed by minimum wage earners who just want to get their shift over and get home.

There should be a hierarchy - Doctors then nurses then carers, the profession needs to be viewed like that and to be staffed by professionals for whom its a vocation, not just something to do for 16 hours a week so they can still get their tax credits and have a few quid in their pockets.

Little known facts - a large portion of carers are part timers who don't work in the school holidays or weekends/evenings and will only do 16 hours a week so they can continue to receive their benefits/tax credits etc leaving the few full timers to cover the rest of the shifts. The same carers will fight tooth and nail to get public holiday shifts due to the double pay.

An increasing number of carers will refuse to do things such as wash a man below the waist, especially if he's a younger disabled man, i.e. under 70 ( I can't see what the difference is myself) others will state categorically "oh I don't do vomit, poo, etc etc)

Most younger carers (under 40) are incapable of cooking anything more than a basic microwave meal, I even had one who didn't know how to make a sandwich!!!

Care companies by and large take carers off the road and move them to the office instead of hiring professional office staff, hence rota's tend to get messed up regularly.

Most carers only receive very basic training and most will refuse to do any form of first aid other than calling an ambulance or doctor.

Finally on the subject of local authorities directly providing care - My local authority runs its own care company, its the most expensive care company in the county, charging well in excess of the rate we are allowed for our care by that same authority, yet its service is no better than most of the other care companies, cut short visits & minimum wage staff pressured to cover more clients than is reasonably possible.

Looking at this you may think I must be a nightmare to work with but the opposite is true, its a very easy gig here, I treat all my carers well, never tell anyone to do anything, I always ask and whatever pain or discomfort I may be in always try to have a smile on my face, I prefer them to leave my home happy and content with the work they've done no matter how bad their day has been.
 
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Well, I don't think that there's much else that can be said, after reading this.
 
Thanks Gary, I really wish I didn't have to say it all, but its the truth that I've lived for the last 7 years.
I count myself as extremely lucky to have the team I currently use, one will be in shortly and I can rest safely in the knowledge that she won't leave until she knows everythings done and I'm settled in for the night, even if that means her staying until 11pm.
 
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