Disconcerting

[JohnC6]

Quite a while ago I posted about smart speakers/Alexa/Siri and people getting ads re something they'd been talking about in their homes. Now I read about a South Korean man who has been hacking into home security cameras and other home smart devices, seemingly those that can be monitored remotely by the owners. He's been capturing couples' daily lives including clips of them unclothed and footage of them having sex .He's then sold the intimate videos via the Dark Web and to porn websites. There was mention of blackmail too. He's hacked into systems on hundreds of apartment blocks. Another system hacked involve wall-pads. I don't know what they are and only got results with a Google search for room insulating pads.

In 2019 police broke a pornography ring that had installed cameras in the rooms of dozens of South Korean hotels which had recorded 1600 couples having sex. The clips were played online to paying customers.These lenses were just 1mm in width and were found in 42 rooms in 30 small hotels in 10 South Korean cities. They were hidden in hairdryers ,wall sockets and digital TVs and were used to stream images of the occupants and,once again,couples having sex. Streaming was 24 hours a day. Human Rights Watch reports that men are using tiny spy cameras to capture illegal images of women without their consent and selling them to porn sites or,as mentioned above,for blackmail purposes. In one incident a married man, the boss of a young women who rejected his advances, gave her a clock which she accepted and put in her bedroom. She later discovered that it contained a tiny camera which he used to watch her at anytime 24 hrs a day.

I'm not a Luddite but I have no intention of installing any AI technology nor other than normal security cameras..ie not those that can be accessed remotely .I don't have zoom technology nor am I on Apple's Face Time despite my neighbour offering to set it up. I used to struggle with my iMac when I first got it and he would call round to get me sorted and said it would be easy with Face Time. Thank you but no thank you, was my response.

Today's DM. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...deos-accessing-smart-devices-South-Korea.html

 

[Ricardodaforce]

FaceTime is video calling, not video monitoring.

 

[onomatopoeia]

The security on some "smart" devices is laughable, or even non-existent. Some are wide open to anything on the same network segment, they have no security at all.

 

[simon ess]

A person I know who has an Alexa, someone of a religious persuasion, has told me several times how her and her partner would be discussing something in particular and subsequently, upon checking e-mails, watching Youtube and the like received adverts for that very thing, that her faith brings her happy coincidences.

I smile and nod.

 

[JonathanRyan]

A person I know who has an Alexa, someone of a religious persuasion, has told me several times how her and her partner would be discussing something in particular and subsequently, upon checking e-mails, watching Youtube and the like received adverts for that very thing, that her faith brings her happy coincidences.

I smile and nod.

I guess I'm one of the few people who likes targeted advertising. I mean, I accept that using cheap/free stuff is paid for by my sitting through adverts so they may as well be for stuff an AI thinks I want.

 

[ecoleman]

I use Alexa and I have PI-Hole installed on a Pi which block all ads so never see any.

Most cameras aren't hacked, people just never change the default passwords so they are easily accessible.

 

[wyx087]

I'm not a Luddite but I have no intention of installing any AI technology nor other than normal security cameras..ie not those that can be accessed remotely .I don't have zoom technology nor am I on Apple's Face Time despite my neighbour offering to set it up. I used to struggle with my iMac when I first got it and he would call round to get me sorted and said it would be easy with Face Time. Thank you but no thank you, was my response.

Today's DM.

Can I interest you in some tin foil hat?

Also, do you have a smart phone?

 

[Sky]

Can I interest you in some tin foil hat?

The stock answer for anyone who lives their life with their head stuck in the sand.

It will be written into history at how stupid and gullible the people in the early 21st century were . . .

 

[wyx087]

The stock answer for anyone who lives their life with their head stuck in the sand.

It will be written into history at how stupid and gullible the people in the early 21st century were . . .

There are times when caution is required and justified.
There are also times when tin foil hats are required.

The OP's view of pretty well established technology is the latter. As have been pointed out, more to do with inability to distinguish between telecommunication and surveillance device hacking.

My view of these things is simple: Understand what's going on, and regard any data that travels on the internet to be unsecure. Telecommunication, zoom/facetime calls is like phone calls, it's no different to talking in public. But on the other hand, surveillance cameras need to be local, and thus ALL my cameras are RTSP-only, don't connect to the internet. Similarly, my smart-home devices are run locally via Home Assistant rather than through any cloud service.
ALL my apps on my smartphone and every setting is carefully configured so as little of my personal information can be harvested by apps/services as possible.

Don't put your head in the sand and fear new technologies, embrace and tweak it.

I think throughout history, it has already been written how stupid and ignorant some people are.

 

[munch]

The stock answer for anyone who lives their life with their head stuck in the sand.

It will be written into history at how stupid and gullible the people in the early 21st century were . . .

But if you look back through history people have always been gullible, how else do explain religion?

 

[woof woof]

But if you look back through history people have always been gullible, how else do explain religion?

Religion can be perverted and cause wars and suffering but it can also be a great comfort or even an acceptable and even good lifestyle choice. I can't really say the same for foil hats.

 

[munch]

Religion can be perverted and cause wars and suffering but it can also be a great comfort or even an acceptable and even good lifestyle choice. I can't really say the same for foil hats.

You have totally missed what I said, I was talking about people being gullible, if they draw comfort from it doesn't mean they are any less gullible.

Believing that if I do what some deity tells me will make me a better person than someone who doesn't believe in that deity. Must surely rank as being gullible?

 

[woof woof]

You have totally missed what I said, I was talking about people being gullible, if they draw comfort from it doesn't mean they are any less gullible.

Believing that if I do what some deity tells me will make me a better person than someone who doesn't believe in that deity. Must surely rank as being gullible?

I didn't miss what you I said at all. Even a hint or the appearance of belittling other peoples beliefs or lack of, as long as it doesn't impact on you, isn't persuasive and isn't a good look. And that's twice you've done it.

 

[JohnC6]

FaceTime is video calling, not video monitoring.

Ok..thanks. I'm sure you're an Apple man ..as I recall...so re the tiny camera lens mid-way along the top edge I read that it should be covered with tape. I don't know if that's used re Face Time or not . I assume so ..no external camera as I see on tv clips of people with them but I mentioned it to my neighbour who said he has his covered. From what you say it seems uneccessary,though. Maybe I'm confused between an iMac and a smart tv with face to face capability In the new year I'm going to get the Oled 55" LG tv and will connect that to the internet so I can watch football on BTSport and it won't download a Netflix film either. nor 'catch up'..as our curent smart LG 47" isn't capable of doing that as it's 8 years old. This tv was launched last May at £1750 and it's now at £1300 and will no doubt drop again as the launch of the next model nears in the Spring. I assume that will be called a C2 replacing the current C1. I'll make sure it's not 'spying' on us...lol.

 

[JohnC6]

I use Alexa and I have PI-Hole installed on a Pi which block all ads so never see any.

Most cameras aren't hacked, people just never change the default passwords so they are easily accessible.

You'd think by now,after the relentless campaign of messaging by tech experts about changing the factory password not doing so was a thing of the past but,obviously, not so. I see I didn't mention it in my original post but it was brought up..in one of the articles about S.Korea ie..that still too many people fail to change the default password. Unbelievably, the word itself is used when a change is made..ie password.

 

[munch]

I didn't miss what you I said at all. Even a hint or the appearance of belittling other peoples beliefs or lack of, as long as it doesn't impact on you, isn't persuasive and isn't a good look. And that's twice you've done it.

No intention of belittling anyone, just pointing out that people have been gullible throughout history, and no more so than those who follow any deity.

 

[JohnC6]

Can I interest you in some tin foil hat?

Also, do you have a smart phone?

1. Tin foil hat..? Sounds a good call to me after all I've read and on almost a weekly basis still reading, about ever more potentially-intrusive technology coming onto the market.

2. Smart phone ? ..No,I don't have a smart phone. Last year my wife bought me an ordinary mobile as she worried that if something untoward happened whilst I was in a remote location photographing steam locos or birds.. eg the Somerset Levels re the latter, I'd be in a pickle. No-one, other than my wife, has the number and I couldn't tell you what it was,either. The phone spends most of its life in the kitchen drawer.

To be fair,I think today's technology is fantastic and crucially,a safeguard,especially for females and distant families who can keep in touch via zoom, especially re grand-children who don't grow up in foreign lands without the grandparents seeing their progress. Sometimes my wife will see an item of clothing in a shop and Email me a photo to get my opinion. So, a lot of positives,for sure. I'm just reluctant to get onboard with the likes of Alexa and Siri and interacting with whoever via a TV. and,as far as I know,once a mobile or smart phone number is out there it's bombarded with text messages about all manner of things of which most are ads and of no interest. Also, I'd have thought, the .....'how did we do ?' after a purchase. I got my wife some Liz Earle products..cosmetics ..about 10 days ago for Christmas and ordered them online.Today I got an Email thanking me for the purchases and would I like to write a review about them despite the obvious fact that I'm a bloke..infact it started.. Dear John....John not Joanne..lol.I've responded with.." I have no idea regarding the merits of the products I purchased as I bought them for my wife for Christmas . I'll ask her after she's used them but as she has your products already I assume she thinks they're fine..Regards....etc...lol.

It seems to me that we,...well, I don't include myself,obviously... the 'we' being people in general, are subject to the almost continous..as opposed to continual, harassment, as I see it, of unwanted intrusion into our lives. Gone are the days of blissful seclusion and peacefulness.

 

[wyx087]

It seems to me that we,...well, I don't include myself,obviously... the 'we' being people in general, are subject to the almost continous..as opposed to continual, harassment, as I see it, of unwanted intrusion into our lives. Gone are the days of blissful seclusion and peacefulness.

It's all about how you set stuff up. My phone rarely produces any notification, either locked away to only show when I look at it, or turned off completely. It's all about correctly configuring everything.

The most critical thing to remember is that all those little bits of information cannot make a meaningful profile of you. And you need to ensure they can't add up to make a profile.
This means ensure your web browser is sufficiently secure and does not use advertise tracking ID (use Firefox with enhanced tracking protection or Brave); use extensions like "I don't care about cookie" to remove cookie prompt rather than automatically click allow; smart phones have advert tracking ID disabled; take the extra step to ensure all services are not allowed to generate targetted adverts.

I wouldn't mind intrusive tech, as long as those intrusive stuff can be turned off or limited to run locally within my home network or only on-device.

 

[Mr Bump]

i keep talking to my alexa for all kinds-o-s*** but it never happens

 

[JohnC6]

It's all about how you set stuff up. My phone rarely produces any notification, either locked away to only show when I look at it, or turned off completely. It's all about correctly configuring everything.

The most critical thing to remember is that all those little bits of information cannot make a meaningful profile of you. And you need to ensure they can't add up to make a profile.
This means ensure your web browser is sufficiently secure and does not use advertise tracking ID (use Firefox with enhanced tracking protection or Brave); use extensions like "I don't care about cookie" to remove cookie prompt rather than automatically click allow; smart phones have advert tracking ID disabled; take the extra step to ensure all services are not allowed to generate targetted adverts.

I wouldn't mind intrusive tech, as long as those intrusive stuff can be turned off or limited to run locally within my home network or only on-device.

I'm not sure that most people have the wherewithal to keep themselves 'safe.'as you have. You're obviously well- versed in the workings of tech. Being honest with you a lot of what you've outlined has gone over my head. And being honest,again...lol...I have a tinge of envy of those ,like yourself, who really understand it all.

 

[Cobra]

And now the damned thing makes a coffee on demand ..
What's next?

 

[the black fox]

At the end of the day does it matter , if my I.mac,I.pad or I.phone or Alexa are listening in to my chat about my wants they can bombard me with all the adverts they want , till they provide the actual money to buy those items then it’s irrelevant .
50 years ago the tech we rely on daily was pure sci.fi now we don’t even blink at having global communicator with mini t.v screen on it in your hand . Which also doubles up as a camera and video or voice recorder ..
We also have faceberk and t***ter etc which imho are the biggest propaganda machines in history , and look at the obviously fake news on u.tube .we are living in a fantasy world all you need to do is sort out the reality

 

[Nod]

And now the damned thing makes a coffee on demand ..
What's next?

Just be careful not to say "f*** me!" if you have an IOT based toy...

 

[Earley Man]

No intention of belittling anyone, just pointing out that people have been gullible throughout history, and no more so than those who follow any deity.

For you does that include those who follow the teachings of Karl Marx? His believers have spread, and are spreading, wars, both internal and external, famines which have caused the deaths of millions and the summary execution/forced labour deaths of millions more because they did/do not accept the correctness of his infallible writings?

 

[woof woof]

No intention of belittling anyone, just pointing out that people have been gullible throughout history, and no more so than those who follow any deity.

Three times now?

Golly. How spiffing for you, but still not a good look.

 

[munch]

Three times now?

Golly. How spiffing for you, but still not a good look.

So you can count, Don't see the relevance, but if it makes you feel all warm inside you crack on.

 

[woof woof]

So you can count, Don't see the relevance, but if it makes you feel all warm inside you crack on.

I'm glad you finally recognise the right of others to "crack on" without having a snide pop at their beliefs. This gives me hope that you're not beyond some personal improvement. I'm also glad I wont have to point out the number of times you've post like a complete **** on this any more.

Happy Times indeed

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I'm glad you finally recognise the right of others to "crack on" without having a snide pop at their beliefs. This gives me hope that you're not beyond some personal improvement. I'm also glad I wont have to point out the number of times you've post like a complete **** on this any more.

Happy Times indeed

Mind you, this does introduce an important question: how can people that claim to follow the teachings of a man, who allegedly said...

You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

...take umbrage at any criticism directed at them?

Surely, true Christians would say nothing and continue about their business?

The only answer I've received was from some Quaker friends who simply said that "not everyone listens to what they're told".

 

[woof woof]

Mind you, this does introduce an important question: how can people that claim to follow the teachings of a man, who allegedly said...
...take umbrage at any criticism directed at them?

Surely, true Christians would say nothing and continue about their business?

The only answer I've received was from some Quaker friends who simply said that "not everyone listens to what they're told".

My point is that although "we" may think it's all tosh, utter nonsense, naive or gullible it isn't a great idea to say so in terms which could be seen as insulting or derogatory as much of the world follows some recognised religion or other and not all of it results in people being stoned to death or thrown off high buildings. People who go to those extremes are usually and thankfully in the minority and if it wasn't done in the name of religion I'm sure they'd just find another excuse. Regardless, a lot of people are "better" people or get some comfort out of believing and I think we should leave them to it as long as they aren't hurting anyone else.

In matter like this, if it's not hurting anyone, I think it's best to do as the song says...

"If you don't give a damn about the man with the bible in his hand
Lets get out the way and let the gentleman do his thing."

I'd say the same about vegetarianism / vegans and meat eaters... Or Canon v Nikon. We can have a discussion on these and many other things and even disagree without resorting to unnecessary silliness or labelling people gullible.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

My point is that although "we" may think it's all tosh, utter nonsense, naive or gullible it isn't a great idea to say so

Perhaps not but both the lad in the sandals and the principles of democracy say that you're allowed to do just that. Extrapolating from the Sermon on the Mount, perhaps we should all practice the art of turning the other ear.

 

[Krisstiffer]

And now the damned thing makes a coffee on demand ..
What's next?

MI5 coming round for coffee as they know you’ve got a brew on the go?

 

[woof woof]

Perhaps not but both the lad in the sandals and the principles of democracy say that you're allowed to do just that. Extrapolating from the Sermon on the Mount, perhaps we should all practice the art of turning the other ear.

Yup. You're allowed to insult and upset people within legal limits but you don't have to and I don't think it's a good look.

By the same token I'm allowed to think people who needlessly insult and upset others are either just sh1ts because they are just sh1ts or they do so because they need counselling. I'm presumably allowed to state my own opinions on this because the man with the sandals and democracy allow me to.

Such is life.

 

[simon ess]

I believe the universe is governed by a Pixie that lives in a silver teapot in orbit around the 10th planet that "they" don't want you to know about.

If someone tells me that's silly I shall cry.

 

[munch]

You need to separate your own beliefs and look at history all religions have worked by making people believe in something that in the majority of cases can not be proven. Plenty of instances where religions have deliberately targeted gullible people.

I have never said it was wrong to believe, I just pointed out that people have always been gullible and used religion as an example.

I have not attacked your belief, but just as you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to mine.

 

[JohnC6]

For you does that include those who follow the teachings of Karl Marx? His believers have spread, and are spreading, wars, both internal and external, famines which have caused the deaths of millions and the summary execution/forced labour deaths of millions more because they did/do not accept the correctness of his infallible writings?

The discussion is about religion so can I just point out that Karl Marx was a person who, along with Engels created the Communist Manifesto in 1848. and as you'll know it set out an alternative system to capitalism.. This contrasts with Jesus who said that he received his teachings directly from his god. You don't need to take my word for it as it's recorded so in the Bible. John 7:16. ' My teaching is not mine but his who sent me'

The rest of this post is not responding to anything in particular you've said but the discussion in general.

To the best of my knowledge every god..,and there are estimated to be 2500 mainstream gods..has a name apart from the god of Christians who for some reason simply call him God. That's God with a capital letter so a proper noun. The god of Jesus was Yahweh because Jesus was born a Jew, lived as a Jew and died a Jew. The concept of a messiah is a Jewish concept and has been spoken of for centuries. All an inconvenient truth for Christianity. .

Had I been around in the time of Karl Marx and had had the opportunity to touch him .a handshake ...for instance I could have done so. I'll believe in gods when I can touch one,in the meantime they exist only in the imagination of those who,one way or another, just have to believe in their existance. I say, one way or another because the vast majority of believers don't make a decision later in life when they have a mind of their own and so of their own volition but have it imposed on them by parents. In Islam the moment a child is born he/she IS a muslim and woebetide them if,at some point in their lives, they decide to abandon that belief. I had a Jehovas Witness..what exactly they've witnessed was never established... tell me that they don't baptise their young people until they're at least 16 and can show they know what they're doing. So far,so good one could say. What is overlooked is that they've grown up within a Witness family,generally have only Witness friends..hence home education..look on outsiders in the same way as muslims see non-muslims as infidels..non-believers so is it any wonder a young person goes along with it ? It's a brave person that leaves them too because,as with muslims leaving the faith it brings separation from family. For JW it's called shunning. Families torn apart. Parents rejecting children and siblings rejecting siblings. Google it,maybe ? A South American organisation,a human rights organisation, has declared shunning as a form of torture. Some of the practices they impose on their children.. no birthdays, no christmas or anything like it, no Motheres/fathers day..no associating with non JW., taking very young children door to door proselytising....it's all a form of child abuse and there's far too much of that in all its forms within organised religion. Lives are trashed and for what ?

My hostility is aimed at 'organised religion' and,as just highlighted in one example, what it can impose on its adherents. If someone thinks that life ...and the Universe..could only have been 'created' by a supernatural being then I'd be happy to engage in dialogue with my starting point being that, knowing what we know these days about the bewildering complexity of living creatures..us included and the mind-numbing complexities of the Universe..not least courtesy of Prof Brian Cox et al...it's an adsurdity in itself to believe any one 'god/entity could be responsible for it.

The most vicious regimes are often theocratic ones...eg Iran. Iran is said to have the most brutal prison in the world..Evin. It supports terrorism throughout the world and has vowed to annhialate Israelis. Hamas even has that goal in its charter.

Organised religion gives false hope to people when they attend prayers. The priests, the mullahs, the rabbis etc stand before their congregations and 'speak' with their god. They get their congregations to exalt that god by joining in with set prayer verses. Why doesn't it ever occur to any of them that its only ever been a one-way dialogue ? They never get an answer and never will. At the end the church collects money from them. What really baffles me is the lack of logic. I can best describe that with an example. Years ago a TV crew went to the scene of devastating floods in a South American country. A landslide after hurricane floods as I recall.I think it was in Honduras. A man, who was standing by his demolished home, was crying because his wife and two children had been killed. He said.." but I thank god for saving me'. So..his god..I assume he was a Catholic ..for whatever reason chose to save him but allowed his wife and two children to perish.

We talk about modern-day scams, how the vulnerable and even the not-so-vulnerable are duped yet the greatest scam/con ever to be perpetrated against humanity is organised religion. In the name of a god it's caused the deaths,often through war.of millions brought untold suffering onto people and blighted countless lives. I have particular animosity towards the Catholic church and I better not get started on Islam which is a threat, in one way or another to societies worldwide.

As for people getting comfort from religion,an often quoted 'positive' by those wishing to find a shred of positivity about it all it's based on a false premise...ie an imaginary friend. It smacks of a drowning man grabbing at a straw. There are more substantive ways for people to get emotional support within their societies.

I was told one day, after one of my anti-religion polemics that I should respect other peoples' religions..as if I had one of my own. My retort was that, unfortunately, I have to tolerate organised religion but don't ask me to respect it. All too often it holds no respect for its own adherents.