Developing black and white film

Ben johns

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Due to cost reasons ive been considering developing my film at home, dont some 'youtubing' and i came across this video
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpfRqDDZyw&t=15s
. My understanding is that in high contrast situations you can expose your film for the shadows then reduce the development time with controls the highlights so you have informtion in both? I did more reading and people have been saying to rate the film at half box speed then develop as normal? The reason i bring it up is that i will using roll film not sheet film so obviously i would have to develop the entire roll for the same time so does that mean i wont really be able to apply this technique?
 
also i scan my negatives if that makes any difference and i would ony really by doing landscapes
 
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I would suggest starting by rating it at box speed and developing normally. See what you think of the results and then consider whether anything needs to change.

What film and method of metering?
 
The roll that I've sent off was fp4, I metered using my a6000 as I don't have a light meter yet. I've ordered a couple of rolls of pan f but I don't have any set ideas on what I like just yet.
 
You can apply the technique but the contrast of all scenes you photograph must be of the same level of contrast otherwise some shots will be what you want and others will not. It stands to reason you cannot expose different frames on a roll film and develope them at the same level and get a totally consistant result. Hence the zone system is for individual single 10x8 5x4 plate cameras in a perfect situation.

As a general rule though as the guy in the video says over exposure and under development gives flat negs ( I would not want that on a dull day doing landsacpe photography). under exposure and over development gives higher contrast (which I could well use on a dull flat day for landscape photography).

The book you want is "The zone system for 35mm photography by Carson Graves". I studied the Zone system by Ansel Adams (the bible) and the Carson Graves book is a lot easier to understand.:)
 
right ok, I'm far too used to digital, being able to take photos as and when. When I started to use 35mm I had some that came out and some that didn't, it was probably this reason, I didn't usually go through a whole roll in one day.
That's another reason why I want to develop myself, I don't have to wait a week to see my mistakes
I'll have a look at that book, thanks for the suggestion :)
 
Oh-Kay.. I'm suffering through the Vid you linked... and folk accuse me of being long winded...phew! But, what the chap is talking about is Push/Pull processing. In short, deliberate re-rating of a film, exposing above or below 'box-speed', and compensating by over/under development.

Push-Process - rate film above box speed; ie 'under-expose' and compensate in dev, by 'over' development (Increasing dev-time or mix concentrates) Results in a reduction of tonal range & increase in contrast & usually increase in 'grain' size.

Pull-Process - rate beneath box speed; ie 'over-expose' and compensate in dev by 'under' development (Decrease dev time or mix concentrations) Results in a gain in total range and decrease in contrast, with usually reduction in grain size.

Wonderful 'tricks' for more enthsuastic Dark-Room trogladytes like wot I was back in the day; Personally I tended to do far more 'push-process', shooting Student-Union rock gigs, when high ASA film, was rather expensive, and the high contrast and golf-ball grain gave that 'down and dirty' Rock-feel... but.. many exploited the principle both ways.

But... I could buy bulk-lengths of Croatian Slide or B&W Film, that was nominally rated at 400ASA... I could wind that into cassettes, and shoot it at:, at 50ASA, 100ASA, 200ASA to 'Pull'; Box rated 400ASA to 'straight' dev; or at 800ASA or 1600ASA to 'push-process'...

I could probaly have gone a full 3-stop 'push' and shot at 3200ASA too.. but the ASA selector on my OM10 only goes up to ASA1600! And it was getting P-r-e-t-t-y harsh pushed two-stops... so I never tried! BUT, with just one emulsion, I could basically cover the full range of possible film speeds on the camera dial, and shoot it at whatever I wanted, circumstace dependent... film by film.

I was doing it, mostly for ecconomy and convenience; it was cheaper to buy bulk-length film; effectively 20x36exp rolls at a go; but all the same ASA. It was a lot cheaper, and gave me a heck of a lot more film for my money than trying to keep a range of different films in the fridge, and then being nadgered out and about that I'd shot my two rolls of 'fast' film, and only had slow left; they were all the same; and the cans had a bit of masking tape on them with 'Colour' or 'B&W' marked on it, and a space for me to mark the ASA I shot them at, with an Argos biro in the camera bag!

The Aesthetic mert, chap in vid remarkes upon, was a side effect; and as said, for rock-gogs, down and dirty, high contrast golf-ball grain 'effect' like an old Karang magazine, was just a bonus.

I dont think I ever pull-processed anything; but was occassionally exploited by Landscape or portrait folk, to get that fine grain and wider tonal range.

NOW... you are talking about trying to exploit Pull-Process for high contrast situations.... you are applying 'Digital Thinking', and want to be able to do it like in digital 'frame by frame' prodding the SO button..

This is so WRONG on two counts.. pull-procesing was never 'really' a substitute for wide contrast 'slow' film; plenty of folk who wanted that very fine grain and wide tonal range, would simply buy slower film to start with.... and you could still buy super slow speed film in the 90's maybe 25 or 50ASA if not slower.

Pull-processing 400ASA Tri-X, to get that 'aesthtic' effect, was even then a bit of an anathma; an expensive way to make life hard for yourself, if you didn't have some nice slow film in the bag.

Benefit NOW, really is just as negligible; and really only'useful' I would say to get work around the limited range of available films, but with slow film sill no that hard to come buy, picking what was a reletively 'fast' 400ASA and pulling it back to maybe 100, does seem a bit of a contrary thing to so... buy 100ASA.. if you must, pull that, down to 25ASA or so!

And you aught be thiking in film, to expose for an entire roll, not shot by shot. And picking a film suitable to the 'shoot'.

I guess you are now using the Kiev 120, as oposed to a 35mm; and how many shots do you get to a roll on that? My Ziess Ikonta Folder shoots 6x9 on 120, and I think gives just eight shots a roll... at 6x6 or 6x4.5 though you still only get 12 or so shots a film... IF you wish to indulge in Push/Pull processing, it's no great shakes to shoot an entire roll in one go!

No great shakes on 35mm to take an entire set on a can, either TBH, but that's another niggle. (Why buy a film camera if you dont want to take pitures with it? If you dont like buying film... shoot digital! Sort of logic there!)

BUT.. Push/pull processng, it's likely just making life hard for yourself. Especially as you say you are shooting to scan.

Scanning, you will only get 16-bit per channel tonal range; 256 shades between pure black and pure white; it will compress whatever you manage to put on the film anway, and even if with multi-pass, multi-exposure scanning, you managed to get a greater bit depth, or tweeked the thresholds with exposure curves to stretch out the range in high-light or shaddow regions; you still likely wont get that out on screen!

IF you were shooting to print, and shooting to print on exhibition papers, probably single grade paper; THEN you might be able to start dragging out some of that finer detail, and there may be some greater merit in pull-processing.. but, still very questionable whether you would be winning anything over simply shooting a more apropriate and slower film for the situation.

For where you are at, and what you are doing, the practce is something of a blind alley, unlikely to help you very much to my way of thinking.

If you want to take this further; get of effin You-Tube; go get the Dark-Room Bible.. sory Handbook, by Michael John Langford, and read up; he explains in very god detail pretty much all the basic dark-room and home processing techniques, in very good detail; and covers push/pull processing very well, as well as explain when where and why to use it, without the agenda that You-Tube chap seems to have... which I am still a lttle perplexed by TBH.... he seems to be promoting an 'old' technique, smply because he can (Whilst doing a lot of name-dropping, over folk his Dad studied under in the 50's...) Interesting vid... b-u-t.. not all that helpful, I'd say!

Go shoot FILM... dont worry about saving shots.. especially if you are making leap into Home-Process, specially with 120. Many a slip twixt cup and dip! Oportunities for effup are many, from kinking the film onto the spiral; not getting your chem level high enough; getting surge marks; kinks, drying spots etc etc etc whilst you get 'practced' in the art are many.. my advice is limit the variables, shoot to box, dev to the lable; keep it simple; when you are getting reguar decent results; THEN you may start contemplating higher tricks of the trade... BUT... for something you are going to stick in a scanner? Probably not going to do a lot for you.

Here & Now, is starting out kitchen sinking your film... you need films to kitchen sink! Go shoot! Stop fretting about how many frames you use; you don't have SO many on a roll, it's a big deal anyway!
 
This vid was made by our very own Donut and it is the one I watched before i developed my first roll. The man is a blithering eejit :D but it is a very straightforward tutorial.

https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/tutorials/how-to-develop-black-and-white-fillum.101/

As mentioned above I would shoot at box speed and dev as stated by the manufacturer to begin with. Do uiu have the Massive Dev Chart? A very useful app that gives times for most film/developer combinations.

Andy
 
The roll that I've sent off was fp4, I metered using my a6000 as I don't have a light meter yet. I've ordered a couple of rolls of pan f but I don't have any set ideas on what I like just yet.

Post-scrip' Thunk on that matter for you: The Leningrad light meter, would be a 'nice' companion for your Kiev. A period Soviet Era selenium cell meter; it doesn't take batteries; is as cock-roach nuclear-hard as a Zenit or Kiev, and is pretty intuative to use. Cheap too; I think I paid about £3 for mine of evil bay when the daughter wanted to have a dabble with the old Zenit. Pretty sensitive and accurate too; they were the poor man's Weston, and oft waved about my more 'seriouse' snappers in the day, who'd quip, "Not wasting money on a fancy meter! I got eyes! Only want to check my guess is in the right order"

Which brings me to the alternative suggestion, of "F-16-Sunny".. the rule-of-thumb, that says on a good sunny day, with clear sky, ambient day-light will give an incident reading that works out at aprox 1/Film ASA for shutter @ f16. Work from there. If sky a bit cloudy open up a stop, if clouds threatening rain, open up a couple; if dusk, maybe three, if dark, use flash!

When I did my C&G many many moons ago; was actually an assignment we were set to go out with a junk-shop camera, and no meter, and apply the F16-Sunny rule, and metering by eye and scene assessment... IGNORE Ansel Adams 'zone system' or all references to, it will just send you mad! However; C&G assignment WAS expressly to break meter dependency, and encourage us to assess a scene by eye, and consider the tonal range, as well as the ambient light and what was 'important' to our composition, rather than 'fret' about 'perfect' exposure or a ruddy meter reading. And it WORKS.

I still trust my eye over my meter, and you should too. Even the best metering systems in modern Digital cameras aren't that smart, and know when and where its most appropriate to deviate from an 'average' exposure, or when and where a scene ISN'T averagely lit and a little exp-comp would be appropriate.

I have in recent years applied f16-Sunny to the EPM where with legacy lenses it offers no metering; and in tricker situations with the film cameras, having that 'habit' of looking at the light, looking at the scene, and guestimating what sort of exposure value I should need before looking at the meter or view finder swing needle, or numbers the computer ports into the view-finder, has given pretty good idea whether I should 'trust' the camera's estimate or not...

Using the Through-The-Lens meter in another camera, then is a bit of a cop-out; you are taking a reflected light reading, based on that camera/lens' field of view; it's not giving you even the reflected reading you would get from the other camera/lens' FoV.. and either way, still a rflected, not incident reading.

Advantage of a hand-held meter, even one as humble as a Leningrad is you can take an incident reading, of light falling on the scene, and flicking the dome off compare to a reflected reading to see how bright or dark your subject is, and tweek your scene assessment a bit; Or using a more elevated still Sektronic or whatever, take 'spot' (reflected) readings, to refine your tonal range estimate further... BUT either way about at some point you have to make a decision what settings to make... meters dont do it for you... they provide a lot of 'data' when you want 'information'... and you can get just as much by eye, with a little experience!

I wouldn't get to hung up about metering, and if anything if you DONT have a meter, use that lack to break meter dependancy; go shoot by eye; use f16-Sunny, and if you want a confidence check, use the other camera to confirm your gess is in the right order, BUT, dont obscess about it.

Follow on from comments above; DONT be a skin-flint on your film; you said you want to Kitchen-Sink because you are impatient and dont want to wait for commercial process in the post; you only have 8-12 shots a roll on 120.. BRACKET.. use the spare film to cover mistakes; and get the film out the camera and in the soup, and see what you got; dont leave it lying around for months until you have forgotten what you were up to!

You'll learn more from more doing, than you will from more gadgets, by far.
 
Post-scrip' Thunk on that matter for you: The Leningrad light meter, would be a 'nice' companion for your Kiev. A period Soviet Era selenium cell meter; it doesn't take batteries; is as cock-roach nuclear-hard as a Zenit or Kiev, and is pretty intuative to use. Cheap too; I think I paid about £3 for mine of evil bay when the daughter wanted to have a dabble with the old Zenit. Pretty sensitive and accurate too; they were the poor man's Weston, and oft waved about my more 'seriouse' snappers in the day, who'd quip, "Not wasting money on a fancy meter! I got eyes! Only want to check my guess is in the right order"

Which brings me to the alternative suggestion, of "F-16-Sunny".. the rule-of-thumb, that says on a good sunny day, with clear sky, ambient day-light will give an incident reading that works out at aprox 1/Film ASA for shutter @ f16. Work from there. If sky a bit cloudy open up a stop, if clouds threatening rain, open up a couple; if dusk, maybe three, if dark, use flash!

When I did my C&G many many moons ago; was actually an assignment we were set to go out with a junk-shop camera, and no meter, and apply the F16-Sunny rule, and metering by eye and scene assessment... IGNORE Ansel Adams 'zone system' or all references to, it will just send you mad! However; C&G assignment WAS expressly to break meter dependency, and encourage us to assess a scene by eye, and consider the tonal range, as well as the ambient light and what was 'important' to our composition, rather than 'fret' about 'perfect' exposure or a ruddy meter reading. And it WORKS.

I still trust my eye over my meter, and you should too. Even the best metering systems in modern Digital cameras aren't that smart, and know when and where its most appropriate to deviate from an 'average' exposure, or when and where a scene ISN'T averagely lit and a little exp-comp would be appropriate.

I have in recent years applied f16-Sunny to the EPM where with legacy lenses it offers no metering; and in tricker situations with the film cameras, having that 'habit' of looking at the light, looking at the scene, and guestimating what sort of exposure value I should need before looking at the meter or view finder swing needle, or numbers the computer ports into the view-finder, has given pretty good idea whether I should 'trust' the camera's estimate or not...

Using the Through-The-Lens meter in another camera, then is a bit of a cop-out; you are taking a reflected light reading, based on that camera/lens' field of view; it's not giving you even the reflected reading you would get from the other camera/lens' FoV.. and either way, still a rflected, not incident reading.

Advantage of a hand-held meter, even one as humble as a Leningrad is you can take an incident reading, of light falling on the scene, and flicking the dome off compare to a reflected reading to see how bright or dark your subject is, and tweek your scene assessment a bit; Or using a more elevated still Sektronic or whatever, take 'spot' (reflected) readings, to refine your tonal range estimate further... BUT either way about at some point you have to make a decision what settings to make... meters dont do it for you... they provide a lot of 'data' when you want 'information'... and you can get just as much by eye, with a little experience!

I wouldn't get to hung up about metering, and if anything if you DONT have a meter, use that lack to break meter dependancy; go shoot by eye; use f16-Sunny, and if you want a confidence check, use the other camera to confirm your gess is in the right order, BUT, dont obscess about it.

Follow on from comments above; DONT be a skin-flint on your film; you said you want to Kitchen-Sink because you are impatient and dont want to wait for commercial process in the post; you only have 8-12 shots a roll on 120.. BRACKET.. use the spare film to cover mistakes; and get the film out the camera and in the soup, and see what you got; dont leave it lying around for months until you have forgotten what you were up to!

You'll learn more from more doing, than you will from more gadgets, by far.

Cheers :). I should have bracketed the first roll as you said, by the end of the day I took a couple just to use it up. I'm my a skin flint with the film as such more because of the processing cost, £35 for 4 rolls was a hard pill to swallow.
Also I have a mamiya 645 :)
 
Cheers :). I should have bracketed the first roll as you said, by the end of the day I took a couple just to use it up. I'm my a skin flint with the film as such more because of the processing cost, £35 for 4 rolls was a hard pill to swallow.
Also I have a mamiya 645 :)

£35 for 4 rolls dev only is a hard pill that should NOT be followed! Have a look at the Film dev in the UK thread, and in particular the handy price estimator to see what other shops charge (but always check, and please let me know if you find an error!). A lot of folk are using Filmdev at the moment for dev and medium scan at that price.
 
Shooting college gigs and bike events; I used 35mm, the way that's now common with digital; buying bulk-lengths and self loading, would see me usually have around 20 rolls of film on hand most of the time...
I recall at a Family christening, in the early 90's, my cousin/dad's best mate at school, spotted the amo-belt of film canisters in the top of my camera bag, about six, I think, and quipped "I bet all but one of them are empty, you just put the empty cans in for effect, didn't you?" He was 'old-skool', and had a very old Spot-matic ISTR he was very proud of, having worked all summer between O & A levels to afford it, and as an Archaeologist, took it with him every where, for, by then I guess twenty years, taking photo's of hills and churches and 'stuff' like that; Considered himself a fairly 'keen' photographer, and enjoyed that he had cause to take photos for his work, and boasted he used about one film a month! (Average photographer of the era used less than two films a year!) He opened the can's and saw that there were five exposed rolls inside, so added "Oh! So you are saving up to have them developed then!" I told him to lift the camera cushion and look beneath.... that's where I keep the unexposed rolls, and he found a dozen of them! "WHAT!" he explained "You wont use all them in a YEAR!".. half of them were gone by the end of the day! Lol! Yup, spray and pray! Mia Culpa.
Bulk-Loading 'cheap' Croatian slide or B&W Kitchen sinking, I think that Boots Colour-Print was about three rolls for a fiver, D&P on 'economy' another fiver a roll; so about 30p a frame; I think a 30m roll of E6 cost me about £20, and the Chemicals to kitchen sink it, about the same, so 20 rolls for £20 film anther £20 Develop, worked out at under 5p a frame, so I could afford to shoot six frames for the same money, and not have to fret whether a subject was worth an exposure....
Now? Gong back through the archive, trying to scan it all to widgetal; YES, it is one fairly hefty regret that I took so many photo's on well.. crap film.... most often whilst I am waiting for another strip to scan, and when I look at what I get, thinking "WHAT on earth was I thinking of taking THAT!" (Still do when I clear down an SD card, actually!) Just SO many photo's to go through; and so many of them utterly meaningless, useless of plain duff. It's only when I come across the odd 'one', those little gems; often of long lost relatives or ow grown up children, and I think "That's a nice shot... IF ONLY...." But... actually... If I'd been eeking out the film, I probably wouldn't even have them... whilst the 'practice' meant that actually, making the most of the materials I could afford, and getting a lot of materials and a lot of practice, eve those shots, often aren't all that bad, and few would be THAT much 'better' were they shot on better film......

Moral of the Story?
Medium Format has NEVER been cheap...... 'although'..... the Zies Ikonta mentioned earlier was actually that cousin just mentioned's, Dad's camera; bequeathed to me after he died. As a 'spotter' during the war he learned his photo craft in the forces, and it was an old argument he and my Grandad oft had, over that 'old antique' compared to my Grandad's 35mm Kodak Retinette, which allowed him to shoot 36 pictures at a time, and in colour! (oooh!); where Uncle John, would counter, "Yeah, but I only NEED 8 shots... if I make em count... and I can take them home, and contact print them in the kitchen window and have them in the Album by Sunday lunch time.... you'll still be waiting to finish that film in a years time, then have it sat on the mantle-piece for another until you send it off to be developed.. and in three Christmases you might get the projector out for any-one to look at them!" (Which was more than a little true! I actually used a slide dupe lens and some rather cheap pre-paid D&P film fro ASDA to go through and make prints of all his old slides, in the early 90's and my Gran actually commented that she'd never even seen most of them before! Lol) Which is an exception to prove the rule; some more discerning folk, of old did shoot 120, as it worked out 'more economical'. not having film to 'waste', and exploiting B&W and possibly home dev to eek it out, rather than using Tru-Print; But on the whole, t has NEVER been particularly 'cheap'.
35mm? Has ALWAYS bee a 'cheap' compromise. The smaller format, being common to movie film, provided an economy of scale that made it more affordable; a point my Grandad with his slides always used to remark upon; And? For most, it offered an image quality that was more than adequate for most purposes. It became the defacto choice for journalism; even fashion magazines, where even 'feature' photo's were seldom going to be reproduced larger than A4, and IQ lost in commercial media printing.
Uncle John's Ikonta... absolutely fantastic bit of 1940's hardware; 'Precision German Engineering!" As I would hear both he and Granddad offer in defense of their cameras! And that Ziess, CAN deliver truly astounding IQ.. most of t utterly wasted by Uncle John, who never made anything larger than a contact print from it.....

Now? Digtised for digital display & distribution?... similar suggestion could be made.... scanning and threshold clipping will render the fantastic tonality you could get with film rather redundant; big negs may offer a lot of image to get very high Mpic count from a moderate scanning DPi.. but a heck of a lot of that is 'wasted' in display, where even the best monitors are not going to show more than maybe 4Mpix worth.. you will likely only ever get to see the advantage if you make large scale conventional prints.

Now; back in the mid 90's, a few did try and sway me to Medium-Format; particularly college photo, where the ubiquitous Lubtel 166 was the normal 'start' point; &I was actually offered a Hassy 500c, for relative peanuts, and had the loan of t for a week on approval. I actually took that out and did some landscape and architectural with it back to back with my OM4 and my XA2, all loaded with illford B&W. Developed, and printed, I couldn't start to find any meaningful improvement from the MF neg, until I was looking at tiny sectional crops of the neg, printed 10x8 and looked at under a lupe! So I gave it back! I really couldn't justify the cost.. not of the camera, I think he only wanted £50 for that and the lens! But the film! Even though I home processed. Fantastic camera; but largely wasted on me.

Which begs some thought; here and ow n the 21st Century; great as 120 may be; as fantastic as the cameras may be; and wonderful as the images can get.... is it really worth it? Is it 'helping' you, any if at all? Is it holding you back?

The cameras now, are incredibly 'cheap' comparatively, but film and processing isn't. Will say I was inspired by a Bailey comment in the late 80's, when he commented on how much people will spend on a camera, to be loath to buy film for it, and suggested folk should turn that around; buy cheaper camera and spend more on film. Which was sort of advice I heeded. There's a lot of merit in the discipline and diligence that MF can instill, by way of more involved, fully manual camera, often even lacking TTL metering, slowing you down, making you more considerate and making the most of your frames... but, you don't get photo's by worrying whether or not to press the shutter button; you don't learn by mistakes you don't make; and you don't get the 'practice' or experience, if you DON'T do.. Here 35mm really can score, and really an help, and IF you aren't wasting quality you never get to see, is it any great loss?

And moving on from being a camera operator, exploiting commercial D&P, to taking charge of the process DIY, developing & Printing and or scanning; its a NEW art to master; would it be worth parking the 120 roll films for commercial D&P when you can afford it, and going out with what you have leaned as a shooter with MF, with a more manual 35mm film camera, and a fixed lens; and shooting that, expressly for practice to home develop? Three times the number of frames, in half the chemicals, with film that's perhaps half the price? You could afford to bracket as a matter of course, and shoot three frames instead of one, and STILL not be incing over the cost ad learn even more along the way as a shooter, in scene assessment and metering by eye.

Which is all merely 'musings' for you to ponder.... but a step back to 35mm, to 'practice' metering by eye; using f16-sunny, and shooting stuff to practice kitchen sinking; rather than trying to do that with 120, having bee stung by the costs of it, may be the easier way forwards... .

As said, scanning my back archive of 35mm is frustrating; and coming across so much that is essentially little more than 'practice pieces', of little or no merit or interest to any-one, even me, now.. I would baulk at having to take that many photo's and spend the sort of money to do it on 120, and pay that premium to do so, to have so little to actually show for it along the way, just to acquire the skill-set... which is a slight sidestep alternative view point and query of how much is the picture worth, and how much the pleasure of making it?
 
When I started to use 35mm I had some that came out and some that didn't, it was probably this reason, I didn't usually go through a whole roll in one day.

Could you explain what you mean by some not coming out? If it's a matter of exposure, that's the issue that you need to address.

I know that I'm slapdash in my approach, but in over 50 years of photography I've yet to have to adjust my development times to suit the subject. If you're scanning and printing digitally, you have even less reason to do so. I may be too idle to worry about changing development routines, but I do take care over trying to get the exposure right.

I hate to see things being overcomplicated for no real reason :D
 
£35 for 4 rolls dev only is a hard pill that should NOT be followed! Have a look at the Film dev in the UK thread, and in particular the handy price estimator to see what other shops charge (but always check, and please let me know if you find an error!). A lot of folk are using Filmdev at the moment for dev and medium scan at that price.
It was mainly because I had 2 rolls of 35mm pushed, they charge £6.70 for any format to be developed only which I don't think is too bad. It's the waiting on top of the cost that I don't like
 
I agree with Stephen. I have yet to come across a situation where I have needed to consider pulling or pushing film nor adjust my development. For nearly all circumstances film has such a latitude that it makes very little sense to over complicate things in this way.
Shoot at box, dev to the standard and make my adjustments in photoshop, simple.
 
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I agree with Stephen. I have yet to come across a situation where I have needed to consider pulling or pushing film nor adjust my development. For nearly all circumstances film has such a latitude that it makes very sense to over complicate things in this way.
Shoot at box, dev to the standard and make my adjustments in photoshop, simple.
Cool cheers :). Which slow speed black and whites have the broadest dynamic range? I want as much sharpness and as little grain as possible. I've got some pan f but heard it can be overly contrasty
 
Cool cheers :). Which slow speed black and whites have the broadest dynamic range? I want as much sharpness and as little grain as possible. I've got some pan f but heard it can be overly contrasty

Fuji Acros 100 is very nice and has very little grain and lots of tones throughout, I also like fomapan 100 and 200 as well and they are both significantly cheaper than Acros.
 
This was shot on Acros with a Mamiya C330 and 80mm lens.

Olympus1 by Andy, on Flickr

And this was taken with a Rolleiflex on Fomapan 100
F100-Dancing-Girls by Andy, on Flickr
 
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One of the advantages of conventional photography is that the manufacturers aren't afraid to let us see what their products are capable of - you can get the dynamic range of films (and the resolution) directly from the maker's data sheets. When was the last time you saw a characteristic curve (which gives the dynamic range) for a digital sensor? Ever seen one? I've only come across one in a textbook, and the authors had to produce it themselves...

The best place to start is probably the data sheet for Fomapan 100. It's not a film I've used, but the data sheet has a very useful set of additional information that shows what happens with contrast and dynamic range (N.B. I hate that term, because it has more meanings than I've had hot dinners; I'd rather refer to the subject brightness range that a film can record) as developing time is varied. Characteristic curves are easy to follow once you know that density is a logarithmic scale and that means one extra stop for every 0.3 of density (just like ND filters). If you note how many stops cover the curve from min to max, you've got the range it can hold directly. You'll notice from the Fomapan sheet that at the number of stops of exposure that's plotted, as the development time goes down, so does the density; and putting that another way so does the contrast.

Most films will give the resolution figures in the data sheets, so I do recommend that you hunt them down.

As to fine grain: in simple terms for conventional films, as sensitivity depends on grain volume and graininess on grain area (I know that this isn't really true, but it makes for a simple explanation) then every time you add 3 stops in film speed you double the grain size (volume depends on radius cubed, area on radius squared).

The film controls grain to that extent, but the developer also influences the result. A fine grain developer will minimise grain, but also reduce resolution. An acutance developer works like unsharp mask in Photoshop and gives greater impression of sharpness but at the expense of grain. As they say, you can maximise sharpness, maximise film speed and minimise grain but not all at once.

PanF is a love it or loathe it film. I love it, and don't have problems with excessive contrast. In 35mm it's my preferred film because I HATE grain. In larger sizes, it doesn't matter so much. In medium and large format I have used FP4 and Acros and both are fine for me.
 
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And this was taken with a Rolleiflex on Fomapan 100
F100-Dancing-Girls by Andy, on Flickr

I didn't know they did Morris dancing in the snow! ;)

Seriously, that's pretty grainy. Acros is very nice, but super expensive. I'm currently liking FP4 a lot. I'd like to like Pan F but I don't like tripods, so I think I would have to carry the monopod around for the appropriate shutter speeds. I don't know why I don't currently like Delta 100; @srichards gave me an expired roll at Llandudno, and I loved that, but each time I've tried it I'm not really happy.

The other thing worth remembering is that films "look" completely different when shot in different formats, because the grain etc stays the same but the magnification, or enlargement changes. So HP5 is (IMHO) intolerable in 35mm, but I'm happy to try it in 120.

Buy film and shoot it, likely box speed. Don't worry about push or pull until you have gone LF... unless you have an accident and forget to change the ISO, or like me leave the camera on 1/2000 when you thought it was on aperture priority!:banghead::D
 
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