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Identity crisis.

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Sangoma said:
I don't like them either!

I had to use one when the workplace bought a lot of ipads.
All supposed to be simple to run and administer. Total nightmare, after having the Apple trained specialist try for two months to get things to work, on the day they staff were all relying on them eventually being in use, things didn't work.
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YMMV but in a previous job, I was the single IT resource in a company with about 80 Macs spread across five different countries.

I could order a Mac or iPhone from a retailer in Barcelona, Hamburg or Jakarta, have it delivered to a new employee and all they had to do was to turn it on and all the setup would be done automatically, applications downloaded, installed and configured without my having to do anything from London - Zero Touch deployment as it is called.

It took a little investment in time and infrastructure, but it paid off enormously when HR informed me a new hire was starting in Hong Kong in two days time and needed to get working ASAP. I was in complete control of what updates were deployed when across our estate.
 
I use an aging imac at home and a Win 10 pc at work and this has been so for years, evolving through OS iterations. I no longer notice the kit, just do things differently automatically and without really thinking on either.

I prefer the Apple way of updates, as in either automatically when conditions are right ie plugged in or sufficient battery level else when it is convenient. I understand Windows is Not significantly different, just naggy at times.

I really like Time Machine. Okay I am probably the only one - but the times my Fusion Drive fails and it takes an hour or two format and to rebuild back to last backup. TM goes back years and I have been able to simply look for a file deleted months ago, again understanding that decent backup file generations you should be able to do the same with Windows - but often that has not been the case with Windows.

I prefer Apple, I can survive with Windows.
 
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FWIW: My aging (late 2012) iMac27 has never taken more than an hour to install an update, unlike my aging Windows 10 laptop which does and often too. My wife’s Windows 10 laptop also spends many ’happy’ hours updating itself… Frustrating as it could be!

However, now being over a decade old it’s getting to the time to upgrade the Mac. A new Windows machine is not in the running, and I’ve been using Windows since the 80’s. IMHO, Windows has evolved into the ultimate bloatware.
 
Apparently people buy cars for £50k!!!

Why would you do that when you can buy one for £20k?
 
Lifelong Windows user until moved to Mac when lockdown commenced - would never go back now.
Had endless issues with Windows over the years and Mac has been a pleasant experience and compliments my other Apple equipment.
 
I've used both, but prefer Mac. Mac updates are not perfect and occasionally troublesome. You're also dependent on developers keeping their apps up to date. Canon's EOS utility with Mac is pretty flaky.
 
TimHughes said:
I've used both, but prefer Mac. Mac updates are not perfect and occasionally troublesome. You're also dependent on developers keeping their apps up to date. Canon's EOS utility with Mac is pretty flaky.
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Oh yes, there are some niche product on the market that only has windows based apps for firmware updates. I recall Godox at the start was the same.
 
I used Macs in my work as a journalist for years and love them. The updates on my home iMac are generally straightforward and - crossed fingers - I've never found that they interfere with any other programme. They are often followed in a short while with a short tweak update. I could never go back to Windows.
 
I am a Mac fan and have been Mac only at home for 15+ years, and when I was offered a choice of "Mac or PC" when I started a new job a few years ago, it was an easy choice.

Back to the original question, I would say that the only thing to be wary about is that sometimes your hardware is not supported by the latest updates, so maybe for a few years you will get security updates, then nothing. During this time the range of applications that you will be able to use/update will diminish. But we are talking a period of well over 5 years.

Most of the time the update process is painless and you usually don't notice that the update has happened.
 
Sangoma said:
Yes, RISC was king at the time, I had a QL :)
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When I was developing software I had a couple of QLs with those dinky little tape drives. And an Atari XL and an Amiga 500. I never got round to programming the QL, but I liked working on the Atari, and loved working on the Amiga, the best of the bunch. And then, of course, the PC started taking off, so I switched to the 8088, and that was a mess.
 
Updates on a Mac are far less frequent than on Windows. They usually complete a lot quicker too.

I've been using Macs for 15 years now and currently have three of them. I've only ever had one update cause me any problems to the point where I had to restore from a Time Machine backup. I ran the update again and everything worked perfectly second time round.
 
Windows is better at being a virus than a OS. It's a shame that it's the only OS that'll support majority of the apps, games etc.

I really dislike apple products in general. They cost too much and they force you to spend yet more cash if you need something other than base models. Unfortunately they are the only option if you don't want to constantly put up with a virus and want photography apps support.

In a ideal world I'd prefer to use Linux....
 
You can turn off automatic updates on Macs, giving yourself control over when the updates are applied.

My perception is that there are fewer updates than with Windows, and if there are problems, they come when the OS is upgraded to the next version, rather than with a intermediate step update.

Changes in colour management etc. are possible when the OS goes up to the next version. My way of working is not to be an early adopter, but to let others do it and see if there are reported problems. Then wait until they are fixed.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
The point I am trying to say…and again…not ALL macs are expensive. To say ALL macs are expensive is factually incorrect.
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But they can be really expensive when they go wrong due to fundamentally bad design (yes butterfly keyboard I’m looking at you!!)

Apple effectively asked me to part with £600 for a keyboard replacement, with absolutely no guarantee that it wouldn’t happen again.

I have both both macs and surfaces. To me there is no clear winner, the max is great at things but oh so restrictive, and the surface is great but suffers with lower battery-life.

My Surface-Book is amazing, but the GPU destroys my battery when max’d out.

My point is, with a realistic and decent budget there really isn’t a lot in it apart from personal preference.

And yes, I’ve had monumental OS update issues on both platforms
 
Pound Coin said:
You can turn off automatic updates on Macs, giving yourself control over when the updates are applied.
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It's also possible to choose when windows updates, or to tell it not to update for several weeks as we do when using mobile data in France. I suspect if that is a surprise to some then they would be better off with a Mac.
 
nandbytes said:
I really dislike apple products in general.
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A lot of people love them and many more, like yourself, just find that they do the job.

They not only inspired a cultish devotion in some people, others wrote books about...

The Cult of Mac dust jacket spine Ixus 70 IMG_4429.JPG
 
Switched to a Mac mini about eight years ago. Sold it last year and got a iMac which is wonderful. Just had to get a Windows 11 laptop for some voluntary work (Macs can’t run Access) and its awful, I just don’t like it.
Also have an iPad and iPhone and just love all the integration.
 
After many years of being a bit of a PC geek (I was the technical editor on a PC magazine for a couple of years), I switched to Mac in 2009 when Apple released the first generation of the 27" iMac using Intel processors. Using Bootcamp, you could side-load Windows onto them back then so I had the best of both worlds.

Back in my PC days, I was forever having to sort out driver issues and would reinstall Windows on a fairly regular basis to to get a stable machine again. The Mac, on the other hand, just 'worked'. Because Apple controls the hardware, there's very few issues with drivers. I made the switch to Apple silicon a couple of years back when it became obvious that holding onto an expensive Intel-based Mac was going to lead to me losing a massive amount of money - I quickly cashed in my 2019 i7 MacBook Pro and bought an M1 Mac Mini. The Apple Silicon is a bit of a revelation - compared to the Intel chips, Apple Silicon is a massive leap forward. It's just so much faster and everything is silky smooth - graphics, processing, memory and SSD access et all are just so much faster. Even with just 8GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, the basic M1 Mac Mini happily runs Lightroom and Photoshop.

More recently, I bought an M1 Pro MacBook Pro with a 16" screen, 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD drive. Again, it's a big jump in performance, helped by double the amount of memory and the faster processor. If money were no object, I'd probably buy a Mac Studio with an M2 Max processor and 32GB of RAM. I honestly think that the base Mac Studio is more than powerful enough for 99% of users and will do the job perfectly for many years to come. Apple will probably upgrade it to an M3 Max in the new years so you might want to hold off buying one. Maybe buy an M3 Mac Mini in the meantime.

In terms of the operating system. Apple launches a new version of MacOS each year around late September/early October time (which they make available for free, I might add). It's not unusual for some software to develop glitches when the new MacOS is released but they tend to be fixed very quickly. More often than not, it's an issue with the software you're running rather than MacOS and developers like Adobe, Serif etc work very hard to update their software to ensure that it works with Apple's newest version of MacOS. This used to be more of an issue a few years back but again, after the switch to Apple Silicon, it seems to happen far less. MacOS Sonoma launched about two months ago and I upgraded within a day or so of its launch. Other than a couple of minor glitches with Photoshop (which Adobe fixed very quickly), I experienced very, very few issues. Updates don't seem to cause any real issues either tbh.

The biggest challenge that most new Mac users face when they switch is down to the user interface tbh. MacOS is similar to Windows but also very different - be prepared to have to 'unlearn' a few old habits and endure a steep learning curve to make the switch. Some people give up and go back to Windows but seriously - persevere with it and you will come out the other side a much happier computer user. I love my Macs and I would never, EVER go back to a Windows machine. The Mac just feels so much more polished and slicker than any Windows machine I have ever used (and yes, I have used Windows 11 etc). Hope all this helps!

Oh and for the record, I do still own a Windows-based machine too - it just happens to be an old 27" iMac with an Intel i7 which I 'sacrificed' to Windows when I switched to Apple Silicon. I use it to run photogrammetry software which sadly isn't available on the Mac :-)
 
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Craig1912 said:
Switched to a Mac mini about eight years ago. Sold it last year and got a iMac which is wonderful. Just had to get a Windows 11 laptop for some voluntary work (Macs can’t run Access) and its awful, I just don’t like it.
Also have an iPad and iPhone and just love all the integration.
Click to expand...
Libre Office for Mac includes Base which is (apparently) Access compatible.

Base | LibreOffice - Free and private office suite - Based on OpenOffice - Compatible with Microsoft

Base, database, database frontend, LibreOffice, ODF, Open Standards, SQL, ODBC
www.libreoffice.org www.libreoffice.org

Other alternatives are suggested here:
windowsreport.com

5 Best alternatives to Microsoft Access for Mac • MacTips

Looking for Microsoft Access alternative for Mac? Be sure to try Tap Forms, FileMaker Pro, or any other software from this article.
windowsreport.com windowsreport.com
 
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GeeJay57 said:
Libre Office for Mac includes Base which is (apparently) Access compatible
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Depends what you mean by “compatible“

IME it will not open an Access file. You can probably import data tables, but not use the Access queries/reports. ie you can import the data, but you have to start all over again to analyse it.
 
yzfmike said:
Depends what you mean by “compatible“

IME it will not open an Access file. You can probably import data tables, but not use the Access queries/reports. ie you can import the data, but you have to start all over again to analyse it.
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Hence my inclusion of the word ‘apparently’…

I used Access years ago and dabbled with SQL databases before that. Since switching to Mac just over 10-years ago, I’ve not needed to use Access so was unaware it was not available for Mac until I read this thread. So just trying to offer some suggestions.
 
GeeJay57 said:
I used Access years ago and dabbled with SQL databases before that.
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When it first came on the market, in 1992, Access was a good product.

I used it to write various systems for clients and some of them were still in use ten years ago - 20 years for an application written in something like Access isn't bad. The problem was Microsoft kept "improving" it, so it changed from being a nice tool for building small applications to being JAM (just another monster).

Its best feature, originally, was that it had drop in database drivers, so you could write your application using the local database manager then point it at, say, an Oracle database on the network, with just a few key strokes,

As the saying goes: "Beware of geeks bearing gifts"! :naughty:
 
As I understand it, Access wasn't actually a database originally, but a tool to access databases. It grew.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Errrr, that's the point, isn't it?
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No- it’s windows I don’t like and Access doesn’t work on macOS. Putting windows on a Mac doesn’t make it any better, although because I’ve not used Windows for years it does seem as though it’s getting more like macOS.
 
Craig1912 said:
Putting windows on a Mac doesn’t make it any better
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I'm not talking about putting Windows on a Mac but putting Access on your Mac, so you don't have to use the Windows laptop.

It's practical to set up the virtual machine so that it runs up, brings up Windows inside the machine and makes Access come up immediately. In effect, you're running Access on your Mac and you can run whatever you want on the Mac at the same time.
 
We have a family Windows PC (a Dell bought in 2012 and still going strong), and last night I noticed I was being prompted to leave it on out of normal hours for it to do its update. This reminded me of this thread. The update happens around once a month, and has rarely caused me any trouble (but the PC doesn't run a wide range of software). I am also a Mac user; a year or so ago I replaced my 2014 (Intel-based) MacBook Pro (which itself was a free out of warranty replacement for a 2011 MacBook Pro with the rare Blue Screen of Death that affected that model) with a M1 16" MBP. In the time I had my previous MBP my son went through several Windows laptops before switching to Mac.

I get Mac updates much less frequently than Win updates; however, over the 9 years I had my 2014 MBP there were various major OS updates that made things not work. First was an upgrade that dispensed with an emulator for the pre-Intel hardware, which broke my copy of SilverFast 6. An update for that was available but expensive. I think a number of other productivity tools failed at the same time (I've always liked Mindmaps, and my software of choice also stopped working and was no longer available in that form). More recently the drivers for my Plustek scanner stopped working with an upgrade (luckily that was fixed in Vuescan scanning software which retro-fitted a version of the driver into their software). I think my 2006 copy of MS Office failed about the same time. And worst of all, Aperture stopped working (years after support stopped); that really WAS a disaster!

Currently I'm holding off upgrading to Sonoma, as I rather fear the driver for my 2011 Canon MG5250 printer will finally stop working, and I'll have to buy a new printer. Clearly, a lot of these little problems would be simply resolved if I wasn't such a, um, thrifty person!

But wait... the drivers for the scanner and the printer both continue to work on the Windows machine...

I would never willingly trade my MacBook Pro for a Windows machine, nor would my OH do the reverse. I'm not sure what the lesson of this post is for the OP, but I thought it worth presenting a non-partisan but non-technical view.
 
ChrisR said:
...but I thought it worth presenting a non-partisan but non-technical view.
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I'm not partisan either. I've even been known to run Windows, Mac and Linux machines on the same desk at the same time... :whistle:

Laptop computers and cassete tape recorder DSC00580.JPG
 
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ChrisR said:
a free out of warranty replacement for a 2011 MacBook Pro with the rare Blue Screen of Death that affected that model
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IIRC it was actually quite common - graphics chip overheating - but Apple tended to keep quiet about problems that were often seen by users.

ChrisR said:
In the time I had my previous MBP my son went through several Windows laptops before switching to Mac.
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I don't know what he spent, but often 'cheap' windows machines would become problematic in a couple of years. Spending a bit more (though less than the equivalent spec Mac) would buy something with much better longevity, so spending £1000 on a Dell XPS in 2014 gave me a machine that was finally retired earlier this year, and twice had larger hard drives fitted (1TB, then 2TB) but no other upgardes required.

I am impressed with the new Apple chipset, and it could tempt me to a non-windows machine at some time in the future, but I really hate the lack of upgradeability and closed system approach. If Lightroom and a few other bits of software would run under Linux then I'd choose that over either of the big 2.
 
ancient_mariner said:
... so spending £1000 on a Dell XPS in 2014 gave me a machine that was finally retired earlier this year ...
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Some laptops are very long lived, such as this teensy weensy Sony Picturebook from 2000, which still runs up as shown here, albeit with a knackered clock battery...

Sony Vaio Picturebook miniature laptop S10 DSCN0788.JPG

I bought this with my ill gotten gains from the millenium bug fuss and used it on a few jobs, until my eyes threatened to go on strike. Although tiny, it's heavier than the LG Gram 17 inch on which I'm typing this!
 
Often cheap laptops have an extremely short shelf life. Some brands definitely seem designed to fail early too.

I had a tiny 11" Sony, bought used for about £85 that I used as a travel machine after installing Linux and replaced the keyboard. Gave it to a friend who was starting a new business in the end.
 
gerards artzone said:
I'm starting to get sick of the enormous flow of Windows updates that, much more often than years ago, completely mess up all kinds of settings, erase items completely or suddenly change the color and design of maps, buttoms, text etc.

After yesterday's update by Microsoft, a photo editing program suddenly had stopped working, the general color of all pages was changed in a black background, instead of the chosen default white preference, plus the complete structure/layouts of all my folders and sub-folders in the so-called library changed to something I didn't want at all, strangely enough the screen (photo) background I chose was suddenly gone and nowhere to be found on my laptop.

This makes me very tired, because this year I've already had to restore everything three times. It's also remarkable that more and more parts in Windows 11 can no longer be restored as an option. Microsoft Windows has been an annoyance to me for quite long and I have been thinking about switching to Apple for some time now, but I don't know exactly what Apple's approach to updates is and whether it causes the same kind of damage Windows11 does after each update?
Click to expand...

That is the reason why I never update the operating system and the application software. The only thing I always update is anti-virus and Internet Security.

I'm still using Windows 7 Professional Edition, and as for my iPad, it's still on iOS 11 (current iOS is 17), plus I never update the apps unless necessary.

In my option, if it's doing fine so far so good, then don't update. I disable auto update settings.

Either way, Microsoft or Apple, you'll be updating anyway, unless you opt to turn off the auto upload and stick with the current version for as long as you can.
 
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