Debt recovery for bills never received?

[faddius]

Ok - background story,

I was with virgin media at my last house, had no end of hassle from them for years (some of it very stressful emotionally and insulting on many occasions but I won't go into that). I left that house, cancelled the service and vowed to never deal with them again. They collected their equipment, and as far as I remember I paid the final bill.

Roll on a year, I have been receiving letters from various debt collectors asking for paying of around £150 on behalf of virgin media. This seems like a high amount to me, seeing as my monthly bill was around £40 and I am pretty sure I was up to date on payments. This debt seems to of been passed around a fair few collection agencies by now sending their usual letters threatening action.

Now, here is the problem. I don't have an issue paying this bill and I will if it means I never have to hear from virgin media again - but I have never ever received this bill to try to suss out the reason for the higher than expected amount. Or whether it is an imaginary made up bill (which won't surprise me considering my previous experiences with virgin media). It may well be because I wasn't as up to date as I thought, or it is possble that the family that moved into my old place started using the phone as it wasn't cut off at the same time as everything else. The tv and internet were disconnected, phone line was still active when I left, they moved in the next day. As far as I'm concerned, if these costs have come from phone charges after I left then I cannot be held liable for them, as virgin media cut off all services on the agreed cut off date except the phone line - it is their fault that the phone line was active after I left and after the date I requested services to be cut off.

I informed the last collection agency about this and they said that they would pass a note onto virgin media to send me the bill. I have contacted virgin media multiple times by email / phone requesting this bill be sent to me either by snail mail or email. I have had absolutely nothing, even making formal complaints about the bill amongst other things which supposedly went to the boards secretaries still hasn't resulted in a bill turning up for me to look over. Now I have a new agency contacting me about this bill, and to be frank, I've had enough of virgin medias incompetence. It really isn't taxing to look up a bill, print it and shove it in an envelope - or to attach it as a pdf to an email as they have done many times before.

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with things from here? Surely court action would fail if I have never received a bill and have proof of contacting virgin media requesting the bill on multiple occasions. I'm getting very close to just saying "**** it, take me to court, maybe the bill will turn up then".

Cheers in advance for any advice.

 

[ecoleman]

Send them a request for a bill by recorded mail giving them seven days to respond, if they still don't respond within that time, send a further letter referencing the first. Again give them seven days.

If that fails contact ofcom.

 

[u8myufo]

I am pretty sure I was up to date on payments.
And as far as I remember I paid the final bill.
It may well be because I wasn't as up to date as I thought.

It really isn't taxing to look up a bill, print it and shove it in an envelope

Hardly taxing for you to look up the three most important things that you are not sure about either imho.

 

[PaulJC]

A 'reasonable amount of time' in a court of law is 14 days minimum if you make any requests.

You could send Virgin a request of information under the data protection act, it does cost money (£10 iirc) but they have to furnish you with any and all data that they hold on your account, i believe they have 21 days to do so until you can take further action.

Until such time refuse to deal with the debt collection agencies, nobody is going to take you to court for the sake of £150 (£50 to issue, £50 to enforce, not worth the effort for £150)

 

[boyfalldown]

just write to the idiot collectors and ask them for a bill from Virgin media. They'll supply it eventually. They won't take you to court.

 

[PaulJC]

Did you advise them of your new correspondence address when you moved?

 

[faddius]

I am pretty sure I was up to date on payments.
And as far as I remember I paid the final bill.
It may well be because I wasn't as up to date as I thought.

It really isn't taxing to look up a bill, print it and shove it in an envelope

Hardly taxing for you to look up the three most important things that you are not sure about either imho.

I can't get back to that date with my online statements for some reason despite halifax claiming I can go back 6 years with a click of a button. I remember making a payment a few days before the cut off date but whether that was for that month, the previous month, I don't remember and won't know without seeing a bill.

It could be part my fault for not being up to date and part new owners racking up a phone bill - in which case I would want to see a bill to confirm the dates that any possible calls were made.

 

[boyfalldown]

Did you advise them of your new correspondence address when you moved?

if you close the account you've no reason to

 

[Steep]

A debt collection agency should have all the available paperwork including invoices for sums you are meant to owe. If they cannot provide them on request you should assume they don't exist and act to get the letters stopped. Tell them to provide the evidence of your liability or stop contacting you. Write to Virgin Media, they have a responsibility to ensure that any debts passed on to collection agencies are genuine and if they cannot provide you with proof of liability they should take the debt collection instruction back from anyone they have passed it on.

 

[boyfalldown]

A debt collection agency should have all the available paperwork including invoices for sums you are meant to owe. If they cannot provide them on request you should assume they don't exist and act to get the letters stopped. Tell them to provide the evidence of your liability or stop contacting you. Write to Virgin Media, they have a responsibility to ensure that any debts passed on to collection agencies are genuine and if they cannot provide you with proof of liability they should take the debt collection instruction back from anyone they have passed it on.

in theory, but in reality.........that assumes a degree of competence that these companies simply don't possess.

 

[boliston]

I would get a £2 statutory credit check from experian, equifax or callcredit just to be sure that VM are not trying to blacken your credit rating.

 

[faddius]

Send them a request for a bill by recorded mail giving them seven days to respond, if they still don't respond within that time, send a further letter referencing the first. Again give them seven days.

If that fails contact ofcom.

A 'reasonable amount of time' in a court of law is 14 days minimum if you make any requests.

You could send Virgin a request of information under the data protection act, it does cost money (£10 iirc) but they have to furnish you with any and all data that they hold on your account, i believe they have 21 days to do so until you can take further action.

Until such time refuse to deal with the debt collection agencies, nobody is going to take you to court for the sake of £150 (£50 to issue, £50 to enforce, not worth the effort for £150)

I think this may be the best route to go, how should I go about paying? Just include a cheque in the letter?

just write to the idiot collectors and ask them for a bill from Virgin media. They'll supply it eventually. They won't take you to court.

This is what was meant to happen when I told the collectors last time about this, they said they would pass on a note to virgin media to dispatch a bill to me and put my account on hold until then.

Did you advise them of your new correspondence address when you moved?

I gave them a friends address as I was staying with him until I found a new place, they said they would send the bills to this address and it is the same address they collected their equipment from. Since I found my current place, every time I have had contact with virgin media (email & phone) I have confirmed my current address with them incase they send a paper bill, so they must have it as they're passing it around the debt agencies. Oh and I'm also getting spam from them address to me directly (not dear householder) so they must have it.


Thanks so far guys.

 

[PaulJC]

if you close the account you've no reason to

If the phone line was still connected the account was in no way 'closed' and still very much active if billable calls could be made

 

[Steep]

in theory, but in reality.........that assumes a degree of competence that these companies simply don't possess.

That's fine then, if they cannot provide the proof there is no debt and any further attempt to collect becomes harrassment.

 

[faddius]

A debt collection agency should have all the available paperwork including invoices for sums you are meant to owe. If they cannot provide them on request you should assume they don't exist and act to get the letters stopped. Tell them to provide the evidence of your liability or stop contacting you. Write to Virgin Media, they have a responsibility to ensure that any debts passed on to collection agencies are genuine and if they cannot provide you with proof of liability they should take the debt collection instruction back from anyone they have passed it on.

I've had a couple that have been that useful, such as whichever company dealt with the water bill at my last address. I had forgotten to pay it, they called me - I asked if they could arrange the bill to be sent to me and I would pay it. I got the bill in my inbox an hour later and paid 20 mins after that, simple

It's a shame that not all debt recovery agencies are that proficient

 

[PaulJC]

I think this may be the best route to go, how should I go about paying? Just include a cheque in the letter?

Their is a correct letter template that needs to be sent and it is best that the fee is paid with a crossed postal order

Google 'Subject Access Request' and you will find no shortage of instructions on how to follow the initial procedure AND follow it up in the event that they do not comply

 

[gramps]

I think this may be the best route to go, how should I go about paying? Just include a cheque in the letter?

It's £10 maximum - they may or may not charge the full amount, they should tell you what the charge is.

 

[faddius]

If the phone line was still connected the account was in no way 'closed' and still very much active if billable calls could be made

I did think the phone line was a bit perculiar, I expected it to be dead seeing as the internet and tv were cut off a couple of days earlier. I presumed it may have been disconnected but was still active for emergencies (similar to being able to call 999 on a mobile without credit etc.).

 

[faddius]

Their is a correct letter template that needs to be sent and it is best that the fee is paid with a crossed postal order

Google 'Subject Access Request' and you will find no shortage of instructions on how to follow the initial procedure AND follow it up in the event that they do not comply

It's £10 maximum - they may or may not charge the full amount, they should tell you what the charge is.

Cheers

I'll try to get that sorted tonight so I can get it sent off tomorrow. With any luck they should have it at the start of the next working week.

 

[Steep]

Check the forums at Money Saving Expert as well, there's lots of good advice there.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/

 

[seriousrikk]

When you phoned Virgin Media, did you ask what the charges were for, and the period they covered?

Quite often debt collection companies with lump their own fee on top so the value you are being chased for may not be the actual bill value.

 

[faddius]

When you phoned Virgin Media, did you ask what the charges were for, and the period they covered?

Quite often debt collection companies with lump their own fee on top so the value you are being chased for may not be the actual bill value.

No I didn't, I just gave them the details to find my account and asked for a copy of the final bill to be sent out to me. I don't trust them to read things out to me anymore as they have cocked that up multiple times before (mixing up dates and amounts such as mixing up payment received and payment due) but that is yet another story in my saga of problems with virgin media :shake:

 

[PaulJC]

Don't have any further dealings with anyone by phone, if debt collection agencies phone up, politely tell them to write you a letter and decline to discuss it further, put the phone down if you have to.

The same with VM, i would suggest sending the letter by Special Delivery as opposed to Recorded, large companies can 'batch sign' for recorded but last i checked have to sign for specials individually

 

[2blue4u]

I normally run away from threads such as this as I get too involved with the vast array of advice, some fair, most just plain wrong. But for once, as someone who still owns a company involved in Debt Recovery (did I say that out loud )...

Firstly, forget about giving Virgin or the debt recovery firm 7 days, 14 days or any number of days to respond. You are not seeking anything for which you can stipulate the timeframe.

Are you sure that this relates to YOUR account at YOUR previous house? It's not unheard of for a debt recovery agent to carry out a trace, on the cheap, and arrive at an innocent party.

May I suggest that you write a letter, addressed to BOTH the latest Debt Recovery company AND Virgin. Keep your letter brief and to the point. Say that you have received communication from multiple debt recovery firms. No firm has presented you with a bill indicating the original amount outstanding. That you consider the actions of the Debt Recovery firms harassment and you formally instruct them not to communicate with you again - unless and until someone can supply recognisable evidence to show that you are liable for the outstanding amount and to what it relates.

Post three copies - all by Royal Mail 'Signed-For'. One to Virgin. One to the Debt Recovery Company and one to yourself. Receive and sign for yours but do not open it. Indicate in the letter the full distribution to be used.

Good luck.

 

[boyfalldown]

That's fine then, if they cannot provide the proof there is no debt and any further attempt to collect becomes harrassment.

all good in theory, but the reality is laughably different. I have one of the idiots chasing me at the mo for a company I've never heard of. Despite me having a court order saying the must not contact me further and delete all my data from their systems, they still phone me weekly. Fools

 

[faddius]

I normally run away from threads such as this as I get too involved with the vast array of advice, some fair, most just plain wrong. But for once, as someone who still owns a company involved in Debt Recovery (did I say that out loud )...

Firstly, forget about giving Virgin or the debt recovery firm 7 days, 14 days or any number of days to respond. You are not seeking anything for which you can stipulate the timeframe.

Are you sure that this relates to YOUR account at YOUR previous house? It's not unheard of for a debt recovery agent to carry out a trace, on the cheap, and arrive at an innocent party.

May I suggest that you write a letter, addressed to BOTH the latest Debt Recovery company AND Virgin. Keep your letter brief and to the point. Say that you have received communication from multiple debt recovery firms. No firm has presented you with a bill indicating the original amount outstanding. That you consider the actions of the Debt Recovery firms harassment and you formally instruct them not to communicate with you again - unless and until someone can supply recognisable evidence to show that you are liable for the outstanding amount and to what it relates.

Post three copies - all by Royal Mail 'Signed-For'. One to Virgin. One to the Debt Recovery Company and one to yourself. Receive and sign for yours but do not open it. Indicate in the letter the full distribution to be used.

Good luck.

Thank you John

What is the reason for sending myself a copy of the letter? To prove that RM hasn't lost that specific bag of mail? Also, I'm unsure what you mean - "Indicate in the letter the full distribution to be used", is that in layman terms to just mention that I will be sending a copy of the letter to Virgin Media, debt agency and myself?

"But for once, as someone who still owns a company involved in Debt Recovery"

Not an absolute wild chance you own S R J Debt Recoveries? It might help to get this resolved more quickly. Long shot, but you never know if you don't ask

 

[2blue4u]

What is the reason for sending myself a copy of the letter? it's unlikely to be used in the future but it gives you a record of the letter and when it was sent. And an unopened envelope is less likely to be mislaid than a lose piece of A4. If this matter ever ends up anywhere near a judge (unlikely), the postmarked envelope will add weight to your statement about sending the letter.


Not an absolute wild chance you own S R J Debt Recoveries? It might help to get this resolved more quickly. Long shot, but you never know if you don't ask :

Correct. Not a chance

The most important statement in your letter will be about how you now consider this harassment and you formally requesting them to cease.

 

[gramps]

There seem to be a number of similar stories about SRJ on the Internet - claims that VM don't use them, claims that enquiries to VM confirmed nothing owing etc ... are you sure this isn't a scam?

 

[faddius]

I have had previous agencies contact me regarding VM, this one is just the latest one and I'm fairly sure it is a new company. However, I will call VM tomorrow before I send the letter to ascertain whether SRJ is legitimately working on their behalf or not before I get involved with this agency and also see if I can find any previous letters from previous agencies to see if they are different companies rather than just a new letter layout and company logo.

 

[Splog]

To the OP don't ever sign any letters to any debt recovery agency as it's not unknown for them to fake signatures! Ask yourself why the debt was sold, does it really exist or not? If you think you are clear then let them take it to court..... I bet they won't!

Ignore them and they will go away... and don't fall for all the different names on the letter heads.. it's all crap designed to frighten you into paying.

If it helps phone them and say you are contesting the debt and will not be paying but don't say why, just that the claim is not accepted.

 

[realspeed]

Not getting into the above direct but I would always advise on keeping records. Not just copies of letters and bill/receipts/payments but also note all phone calls, the times they were made and who you speak to.
Keep a record of debt collectors-time they called-who they work for -and their name and position within their company also if possible a copy of their paperwork.
Should matters go as far as legal proceedings these records are vital in presenting a case, without them it makes any case a lot weaker.

Realspeed

 

[Splog]

Not getting into the above direct but I would always advice on keeping records. Not just copies of letters and bill/receipts/payments but also note all phone calls, the times they were made and who you speak to.
Keep a record of debt collectors-time they called-who they work for -and their name and position within their company also if possible a copy of their paperwork.
Should matters go as far as legal proceedings these records are vital in presenting a case, without them it makes any case a lot weaker.

Realspeed

Fair enough! but it's up to the debt recovery people to prove their case and if they can't then they will get nowhere. I still say ignore them!

 

[dexter35yrs]

you can ask the debt company to refer the case back to virgin - or ask virgin to retake the case and you'll deal derect with them.

NEVER EVER SPEAK TO THE DEBT CO ON THE PHONE - if they do get hold of you just say in writing and put the phone down - they are not allowed to call at your home unless they make an appointment (but you've no wish to make an appointment) if they do call at your home they are breaking the (trespass law)

NEVER LET THEM IN YOUR HOME EITHER

they have very little power apart from scare tactics.

above all dont worry about it,

i will PM you a link where you will find all the legal info you will need inc template letters etc.

 

[viv1969]

you can ask the debt company to refer the case back to virgin - or ask virgin to retake the case and you'll deal derect with them.

NEVER EVER SPEAK TO THE DEBT CO ON THE PHONE - if they do get hold of you just say in writing and put the phone down - they are not allowed to call at your home unless they make an appointment (but you've no wish to make an appointment) if they do call at your home they are breaking the (trespass law)NEVER LET THEM IN YOUR HOME EITHER

they have very little power apart from scare tactics.

above all dont worry about it,

i will PM you a link where you will find all the legal info you will need inc template letters etc.

Bear in mind though that in England and Wales, trespass is a civil offence, not a criminal one, (with certain exeptions) so unless you want to litigate privately against them, mentioning trespass is fairly pointless. Harassment, now that's another matter entirely

 

[Carlo]

I would get a £2 statutory credit check from experian, equifax or callcredit just to be sure that VM are not trying to blacken your credit rating.

British Gas did this to me and point blank refuse to admit they're in the wrong.
this isn't my post, so i won't go into details (unless asked)

 

[Mattwood]

To the OP don't ever sign any letters to any debt recovery agency as it's not unknown for them to fake signatures! Ask yourself why the debt was sold, does it really exist or not? If you think you are clear then let them take it to court..... I bet they won't!

Wouldn't have been sold, a lot of debt recovery companies are owned by the original company.

As originally stated the price will probably be due to charges etc added to the account by the 'debt collection company'

Hope you get it sorted soon.

 

[AJQS]

in theory, but in reality.........that assumes a degree of competence that these companies simply don't possess.

100% agree here, I'm in a similar situation to the OP with N-power over gas I never used! The sheer stupidity of some of the things I've been told beggars belief.

 

[Rebel t3i]

don't mention N power to me took me 7 years to resolve my saga which was worse than anything you have seen on watch dog
I think all these corporations are fine when all is well as soon as you have an issue you have no chance with any of them