Death penalty

norters said:
I'd rather private citizens be forbidden to own or carry guns but that's an issue that's been hung, drawn and quartered on these forums too often.
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Well there is nothing you can do about the USA anyway.
As above, they have a right that same right that we have to wear a piece of jewellery.
Or own a car.

As you won't be drawn on the question above,
how about closer to home?
The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in the United Kingdom is 4,060,000.
that equates to 6.7 firearms per 100 people.
The figures are estimates as a number of those are illicit.

Many millions of guns sit quietly in their cabinet , while their owners are out at work etc.
Doing no damage whatsoever.

But every now and again, an owner may chose to use them for illegal purposes.
Just like a car.
Getaway from a crime, carrying illegal substances, use it as a weapon. etc
Should cars be banned?

There are so many items out there that can be used for illegal purposes.
I have a patch of land, I could if I wanted to, grow cannabis,
or indeed use my loft to grow something harder.
And make a fortune selling it.

Does that mean I shouldn't have a garden
or a loft?



 
norters said:
Ps. Calling America morally bankruptcy is not racist. It's fact. They kill their own. They let sick people die because they cannot afford cancer treatment.
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And do you know what's worse than that?
Sick people die every day right here in Britain, because the National Health Service we are so proud of, has refused them treatment based purely on cost.
The treatment is there, but someone in an office has decided that their particular NHS Trust won't fund it.
Sound a tad "morally bankrupt" (ridiculous term) to you?
 
ST4 said:
but that's always the issue with liberal/human rights/lefty types. They can't help themselves.
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You seem to be a bit choosy about "human rights", because am I mistaken in thinking that you are someone who thinks they should be allowed to break the speed limits, and that people who use a car to kill someone (combined with their reckless behaviour) have simply made a mistake?
That is a very "liberal" way of thinking.
 
norters said:
I'm sure America would love you! You can probably fill in your order for fifty assault rifles while you're on the plane over there. Seriously though, why don't you move there? By the sounds of your posts you are quite well off, you could live the American dream.

Ps. Calling America morally bankruptcy is not racist. It's fact. They kill their own. They let sick people die because they cannot afford cancer treatment. They allow private citizens to walk around openly carrying firearms like Wild Bill Hicock! Ah go on. Please go to America. They'd probably love your accent.
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So because you don't agree with their policies it's a fact. Right..
 
andy700 said:
You seem to be a bit choosy about "human rights", because am I mistaken in thinking that you are someone who thinks they should be allowed to break the speed limits, and that people who use a car to kill someone (combined with their reckless behaviour) have simply made a mistake?
That is a very "liberal" way of thinking.
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Unintended consequences from minor crimes like speeding should not be reflected in the punishment whereas intentional acts like rape then bashing someone's head against a rock should be punished more than it is.
 
I live in a very black and white world..... It's wrong to take a life... The death penalty... Seriously.. that is taking a life... no excuses.. whoever pulls the trigger. turns the power on. kicks away the stool or pulls the plug in hospital.. they are taking a life....if you pick up a gun and put on a uniform and shoot somebody in the face.. your taking a life...

Man has decided its OK to take another persons life if you have a good reason..the sad thing is.. so many people have gone along with this concept..

It's either right or it's wrong..

before you ask... Yes..in a heartbeat..
 
ST4 said:
I just can't see it as right to preserve the likes of Ian Brady etc. Sorry. It doesn't have to be a torturous end but hanging is fine by me.
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So your saying its OK to take another persons life so long as you have a good reason ? .. In fact thats exactly what your saying..
 
KIPAX said:
So your saying its OK to take another persons life so long as you have a good reason ? .. In fact thats exactly what your saying..
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This post of mine ought to help you. See paragraph two. I'd be fine with then hanging from the gallows. I am saying exactly as you say.

ST4 said:
I honestly think that is a little general. There are death penalties for silly things like Sudanese case of a woman not marrying a Muslim or something daft but in the case of the US, it is used relatively sparingly for the most serious of crimes.

I can think of certain cases it would be appropriate in the UK for folk like Ian Watkins, Harold Shipman, Fred West, Michael Adebowale. Only the most heinous and depraved crimes would see it but I personally have no issue with it.
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In 2004 the 13th Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights became binding on the United Kingdom,
prohibiting the restoration of the death penalty for as long as the UK is a party to the Convention.
So there you have it. its unlikely to "ever" be repealed.
 
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Cobra said:
In 2004 the 13th Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights became binding on the United Kingdom,
prohibiting the restoration of the death penalty for as long as the UK is a party to the Convention.
So there you have it. its unlikely to "ever" be repealed.
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Who are you....and what have you done with the real Chris? :eek:
 
viv1969 said:
Who are you....and what have you done with the real Chris? :eek:
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He'll be along in a bit.
and I'm sure he'll say,
"Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" :p
 
ST4 said:
Just give them Ebola. It's going to wipe 90% out of us anyway
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A "brave new world" now there is a thought !

All the MP's safe in their controlled environment bunkers,
and no one to rule over.
 
Cobra said:
He'll be along in a bit.
and I'm sure he'll say,
"Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" :p
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God? GOD???
Now I know you're an imposter! !!:runaway:
 
viv1969 said:
God? GOD???
Now I know you're an imposter! !!:runaway:
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:p
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible,
or so I am led to believe anyway :D
 
Cobra said:
:p
Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible,
or so I am led to believe anyway :D
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Marcel.....MARCEL!!!!.....Reel him in!!
 
KIPAX said:
So your saying its OK to take another persons life so long as you have a good reason ? .. In fact thats exactly what your saying..
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so if someone was threatening a member of your family with a weapon and the only way you could save them was to kill the perpetrator you'd just say, "no i can't do that its wrong to take a life " and let your family member suffer ?

Personally i don't think its wrong to take a life if you have a good reason - good reasons boiling down essentially to the defence of the innocent (whether thats the situation above, police shooting an armed criminal , or a soilder fighting for his country )
 
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big soft moose said:
so if someone was threatening a member of your family with a weapon and the only way you could save them was to kill the perpetrator you'd just say, "no i can't do that its wrong to take a life " and let your family member suffer ?

Personally i don't think its wrong to take a life if you have a good reason - good reasons boiling down essentially to the defence of the innocent (whether thats the situation above, police shooting an armed criminal , or a soilder fighting for his country )
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I agree with paragraph two but extend that to state execution for grave sexual assaults, murders with aggravating factors. The Lee Rigby killers and Ian Watkins being two recent ones I'd like to see die. Maybe the inmates will get them in jail ;)
 
IMO rape should never be called a sexual anything. Re labelled maybe as grievous internal assault or somesuch.

It has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and violence. Just my opinion.
 
viv1969 said:
IMO rape should never be called a sexual anything. Re labelled maybe as grievous internal assault or somesuch.

It has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and violence. Just my opinion.
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One I agree with 100%
 
viv1969 said:
IMO rape should never be called a sexual anything. Re labelled maybe as grievous internal assault or somesuch.

It has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and violence. Just my opinion.
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And I agree 100% as well
 
ST4 said:
I agree with paragraph two but extend that to state execution for grave sexual assaults, murders with aggravating factors. The Lee Rigby killers and Ian Watkins being two recent ones I'd like to see die. Maybe the inmates will get them in jail ;)
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Do you mean literally - you'd like to watch the executions - or in the sense that you'd like to know they'd been sentenced to death and executed?
 
ST4 said:
I agree with paragraph two but extend that to state execution for grave sexual assaults, murders with aggravating factors. The Lee Rigby killers and Ian Watkins being two recent ones I'd like to see die. Maybe the inmates will get them in jail ;)
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I agree - state execution in order to protect society from incorrigible perpetrators would also fall into my definition of 'protecting the innocent' (the only proviso being that we have to be certain that the right men were arrested)

IMO the Lee Rigby killers should have been shot on the spot - they claim they are fighting a holy war (against unarmed bandsmen admittedly) so fine lets treat them as enemy combatants and just shoot them on sight.
 
I disagree with the death penalty. I do think life should mean life, and you certainly shouldn't have the mouthpiece of the press and able to claim holy war or whoever else you wish to claim. I could argue about miscarriages, the humanity etc etc. But simply, I don't believe that death is the worst thing that can happen to a human being. To me,it'd be far more of a punishment to spend the rest of ones life inside. I realise I'm probably in a minority in this opinion though.

FWIW I think by not shooting Lee Rigby's killers on the spot the police acted with incredible restraint and foresight. Had they shot him on the spot I think sections of 'society' would of held them martyrs, however wrong that is. As it is they can rot in a cell, forgotten about. I'm sure the outcome of shooting them on the spot is one they hoped for, denying them that can't be bad.
Which isn't the same as saying police should of held fire if there was any chance of saving Rigby's life at that point. I'd have nothing but praise had they gunned them down in that circumstance
 
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