Death penalty

Personally I have no problem with the death penalty for nonces, rapists, terrorists etc so long as their guilt is absolutely certain

As to how it is administered - a bullet in the head works (al though i don't proposes we go quite as far as the chinese who send the family of the person executed a bill for the cost of the bullet)
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBR
big soft moose said:
Personally I have no problem with the death penalty for nonces, rapists, terrorists etc so long as their guilt is absolutely certain

As to how it is administered - a bullet in the head works (al though i don't proposes we go quite as far as the chinese who send the family of the person executed a bill for the cost of the bullet)
Click to expand...
trouble is once you start executing for crimes which do not even currently have a life sentence where do you draw the line? you could end up with that similar to countries that execute for very minor crimes - perhaps tv licence evasion lol
 
boliston said:
trouble is once you start executing for crimes which do not even currently have a life sentence where do you draw the line? you could end up with that similar to countries that execute for very minor crimes - perhaps tv licence evasion lol
Click to expand...

the sorts of offenders i'm talking about should already have a life sentence ... that they don't demonstrates the problem with keeping these people alive ie that sooner or later some moron lets them out to reoffend
 
big soft moose said:
Personally I have no problem with the death penalty for nonces, rapists, terrorists etc so long as their guilt is absolutely certain

As to how it is administered - a bullet in the head works (al though i don't proposes we go quite as far as the chinese who send the family of the person executed a bill for the cost of the bullet)
Click to expand...

What about a terrorist that has been caught red-handed vs another potential extreme terrorist with slightly less evidence. Both are more than likely just as dangerous, but you would chop the 1st one, and keep 2nd one alive in a cell? Does a rapist need to be caught in act to be sentenced to death? I believe this could be a couple questions too far with that thinking.
 
ST4 said:
Of course they haven't, but that doesn't mean their execution has to be a barbaric one either but it needs to be there for the gravest most serious, sadistic and motiveless capital crimes.
Click to expand...
Then IMO they should be treated with the same rights as the victim received, there are far too many do gooders in this world.
 
AHILL said:
Then IMO they should be treated with the same rights as the victim received, there are far too many do gooders in this world.
Click to expand...

There are but public stoning will not come back. I'm not sure I want it too.

We had it IMHO about right last century, hanging probably is a cost effective and quick way.

Alternatively we should use these criminals for experimenting drugs etc on. It would serve a purpose or bring back chain gangs/ hanging

The lefty f***tards would call it slavery and murder but it would be cost effective and constructive use of prisoners time before death
 
jonbeeza said:
Lethal injection it was claimed is a painless and humane way, but how can it be when you look at the chemicals used ? The three chemicals used are a Muscle relaxant, a sodium solution ( salt ) and a chemical to collapse the lungs. So in short, the condemned person is frozen with the muscle relaxant and can't scream out in pain, when the sodium is pumped into the body. Then when the other chemical is administered, they are suffocating when their lungs collapse.

They should at least tell the truth, when saying it's a painless death. Can't recall who it was, but a US politician said they had no right, to a painless death.
Click to expand...
And I have absolutely no problem with that. We should advocate the DP for certain crimes and make sure it is well known what the results of committing these crimes are.
Once convicted, they should be lashed in public, dragged through the streets, placed in a medical function to have experimental tests carried out on them (removing animals from testing), then executed with the £.50p 9mm bullet, before their organs are extracted and given to needy, well behaved and non criminal individuals.. Just a thought.
 
Why use a single use bullet? I reckon a 6" nail would do the job just as well and you wouldn't even need to wash it between uses. Anyone want to borrow a hammer?
 
I understand those (and reasoning) who do not want the death penalty, but can't understand why firstly the US government is so obsessed with the rights of the prisoner, and why they can't just use a firing squad? If you have the death penalty, does it matter if they suffer a bit... after all their victims probably suffered a hell of a lot more!

Some like Lee Rigbys killers, or Ian Huntley... beyond any doubt they are guilty and have no place left alive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
big soft moose said:
the sorts of offenders i'm talking about should already have a life sentence ... that they don't demonstrates the problem with keeping these people alive ie that sooner or later some moron lets them out to reoffend
Click to expand...
i'd imagine that if mandatory execution were introduced for rape then far more rapists would also kill their victim as the penalty would be exactly the same and they would have nothing to loose
 
ST4 said:
There are but public stoning will not come back. I'm not sure I want it too.

We had it IMHO about right last century, hanging probably is a cost effective and quick way.

Alternatively we should use these criminals for experimenting drugs etc on. It would serve a purpose or bring back chain gangs/ hanging

The lefty f***tards would call it slavery and murder but it would be cost effective and constructive use of prisoners time before death
Click to expand...

You are truly unpleasant aren't you?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
boliston said:
Perhaps we should just bring back traditional hanging, drawing and quartering - this would satisfy even the most die-hard of daily mail readers!
Click to expand...

Exactly, and I would hate the UK to be just like Saudi Arabia and other such barbaric places.
 
Every time the death penalty gets discussed, somebody always brings up the "medical experimentations" punishment as "laboratory animals could then be replaced".

Sadly this would not work at all as a) there would not be enough prisoners worldwide even if it was extended to those not sentenced to death; b) prisoners would be a very poor model to use as they are more likely to have been exposed to drugs, alcohol abuse etc compared to most humans, and crucially they will not represent a constant e.g every prisoner is different due to genetic, lifestyle etc factors so it would be near impossible to precisely get any meaningful data unless thousands of prisoners were used, kept in the exact same conditions and all the individual factors were mapped. Individual animals in strains of lab animals on the other hand tend to be genetically very similar to one another, and can be easily kept in constant conditions which means that changes, adverse effects etc can be easily attributed to the drug under test etc.

And c) (perhaps the most important), it would actually break international law if prisoners were forced to take part in human experimentations, or were subjected in dangerous trials which risked their life. Look up the declaration of Helsink for standards of how human experimentation has to be conducted. Ethics for even basic experiments on humans are extremely tight in the UK: I did a project about the human diving reflex (volunteers immersing their face in 5, 20 and 35 degree waters whilst breath holding, with me measuring blood pressure and running an ECG) for my final year research project, and even just for that I had to fill out a 20 page document discussing potential risks, basis for research, the methodology etc. It then went to the ethics board, it recommended some changes and after some discussion they accepted my project.

Strange that everyone universally complains about the human experimentations conducted by the Nazi's (who did some barbaric and horrifying experiments on unwilling people) in the 1930's and 40's, but some people seem to think it's fine to do it on prisoners in this era. Morally and ethically I would feel it to be completely wrong.
 
Last edited:
s162216 said:
Strange that everyone universally complains about the human experimentations conducted by the Nazi's (who did some barbaric and horrifying experiments on unwilling people) in the 1930's and 40's, but some people seem to think it's fine to do it on prisoners in this era. Morally and ethically I would feel it to be completely wrong.
Click to expand...

I would hate to live in a country with such minded rulers/dictators
 
s162216 said:
Strange that everyone universally complains about the human experimentations conducted by the Nazi's (who did some barbaric and horrifying experiments on unwilling people) in the 1930's and 40's, but some people seem to think it's fine to do it on prisoners in this era. Morally and ethically I would feel it to be completely wrong.
Click to expand...

Your are of course entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. but there is a big difference though between unwilling people and prisoners though.
perhaps it is just what is required to get the prisons emptied and may be more of a deterrent!
 
AHILL said:
Your are of course entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. but there is a big difference though between unwilling people and prisoners though.
perhaps it is just what is required to get the prisons emptied and may be more of a deterrent!
Click to expand...

But then surely prisioners will be just as unwilling/not volunteering, and giving consent so what's is the difference? i.e rather than getting sentenced to death or life imprisonment their getting sentenced to experimentation which will probably provide hardly anything useful data-wise? That's not giving individual informed consent, which is a key pillar of international law on experiments involving humans, and I highly doubt that many people in the scientific or medical fields would actually participate in such research, I certainly wouldn't.
 
Last edited:
AHILL said:
Your are of course entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. but there is a big difference though between unwilling people and prisoners though.
perhaps it is just what is required to get the prisons emptied and may be more of a deterrent!
Click to expand...
The point is that the victims of the nazis were innocent people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
big soft moose said:
Personally I have no problem with the death penalty for nonces, rapists, terrorists etc so long as their guilt is absolutely certain

As to how it is administered - a bullet in the head works (al though i don't proposes we go quite as far as the chinese who send the family of the person executed a bill for the cost of the bullet)
Click to expand...

The problem with many rapes is that you can't prove it happened - medically you can prove sex took place but consent? I guess the only way you could prove is with child rape as there is no consent.
 
cambsno said:
The problem with many rapes is that you can't prove it happened - medically you can prove sex took place but consent? I guess the only way you could prove is with child rape as there is no consent.
Click to expand...

Are you and your opinions for real or are you just a massive wind up merchant?
 
norters said:
Are you and your opinions for real or are you just a massive wind up merchant?
Click to expand...

???? U on something tonight?

It's clear to most sensible people that rape is often very difficult to prove.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
cambsno said:
???? U on something tonight?

It's clear to most sensible people that rape is often very difficult to prove.
Click to expand...

Yours are my ideas of what sensible means are thankfully poles apart.
 
norters said:
Yours are my ideas of what sensible means are thankfully poles apart.
Click to expand...

Am still trying to understand your point above. What part of my comment was hard to digest? I was actually arguing against the idea of a death penalty for rape as in many cases you cannot prove that an offence happened. Do you think that you can prove 100% that a rape offence took place?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
boliston said:
i'd imagine that if mandatory execution were introduced for rape then far more rapists would also kill their victim as the penalty would be exactly the same and they would have nothing to loose
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting mandatory execution for all rape - i'm suggesting that the worst of the offenders (who actually generally kill their victims anyway) should be put to death, along with child killers like for example Huntley, and terrorists
 
ST4 said:
Now that is where we disagree....:p
Click to expand...

yeah may be if the police were allowed to take them out with an antitank rocket on the spot .... ;)
 
big soft moose said:
yeah may be if the police were allowed to take them out with an antitank rocket on the spot .... ;)
Click to expand...

You know, if the nonces, rapists and murders all got death sentences, I'd not be against it. Motoring is the one area where we do see tough justice, tough sentencing and tough enforcement. If that level of vigour was applied elsewhere, I'd live with it and not speed. I'd be cool with it if it kept the robbing, junkie scum at bay.
 
joking aside we are in agreement - if we executed all the murderers , serial rapists, nonces ,and terrorists - we'd have the prison space to lock up more of the robbing junkie scum (we could also free up prison space by tagging the non violent offennders and punishing them in other ways ... for example your white collar fraudster might find picking up dog s*** for three months while wearing a bright organge jumpsuit with " I'm a theiving git" printed on the back , to be a greater deterent than a short sentence in a country club like low risk prison)
 
big soft moose said:
joking aside we are in agreement - if we executed all the murderers , serial rapists, nonces ,and terrorists - we'd have the prison space to lock up more of the robbing junkie scum (we could also free up prison space by tagging the non violent offennders and punishing them in other ways ... for example your white collar fraudster might find picking up dog s*** for three months while wearing a bright organge jumpsuit with " I'm a theiving git" printed on the back , to be a greater deterent than a short sentence in a country club like low risk prison)
Click to expand...

True, and I know what you are referring to re white collar fraudster (help for heroes crook - he needs locked up, even for a bit), but they all get processed through big boi prison. eg Barlinnie, Bellmarsh, Wandsworth. 2 days in there has to be terrifying and that is the real punishment as White collar crooks in with some really nasty people that aren't physically/mentally up for the task.
Ultimately though, the community service is a greater punishment than being farmed out to a low security joint, and a more beneficially use of the prisoners time to society at large.

If we brought back chain gangs and work camps USA style, prisons wouldn't be the sess pits they are, the junkies would get clean as they'd do an honest days work, and they'd be shattered at the end of each days work (road laying, s*** cleaning etc) they wouldn't have the energy to be slashing each other in jail.
 
I wasnt reffering to any particular fraudster - the H4H crook needs dropping into afghanistan - preferably without a parachute - but in general you get people locked up for all sorts of stupid b*****ks like non payment of council tax - that kind of thing would be better dealt with through deeply unpleasant community service (not the fluffy bunnys joke it is currently) - i reckon hands and knees picking up dog s*** ( I guess we'd have to let them have latex gloves cos 'elf and safety') scraping chewing gum off pavements, cleaning grafitii off walls with a nail brush etc
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
I am curious as to where you could find all the dog***t - round our way, a not so salubrious area of Nottingham, there is generally very little.
 
ST4 said:
You know, if the nonces, rapists and murders all got death sentences, I'd not be against it. Motoring is the one area where we do see tough justice, tough sentencing and tough enforcement. If that level of vigour was applied elsewhere, I'd live with it and not speed. I'd be cool with it if it kept the robbing, junkie scum at bay.
Click to expand...
unfortunately motorists kill far more people than "nonces, rapists & murderers" do.
 
big soft moose said:
joking aside we are in agreement - if we executed all the murderers , serial rapists, nonces ,and terrorists
Click to expand...
The criminal justice system is not infallable. While there have been advances since the miscarriages of justice in the 1970s, DNA evidence is not a golden bullet that guarantees the safety of a conviction.
 
As I have said before, where it is clear cut that an individuals / group of people ia / are guilty of particular crimes, I have no issue with the death penalty whatsoever. That is purely my opinion.

I also understand why it can take so long from sentencing to the final walk due to appeal, counter appeal, raising it to the next circuit etc etc.

What I don't get is how in recent well documented cases the procedure has been screwed up to the extent that it has been.

This bit is going to be very blunt, but cows at an abbatoir get a stun bolt to the forehead (unless Halal etc but that's a whole different argument.)

Cost is minimal. Effectiveness high. Why not similar for those being executed.
 
onomatopoeia said:
The criminal justice system is not infallable. While there have been advances since the miscarriages of justice in the 1970s, DNA evidence is not a golden bullet that guarantees the safety of a conviction.
Click to expand...

indeed - hence my point much higher up that i have no problem with this so long as we are certain they are guilty - Brady and Hindley (and yes i know Hindley is dead) for example - does anyone have any doubt that they are guilty as sin , ditto Ian Huntley and so on
 
boliston said:
unfortunately motorists kill far more people than "nonces, rapists & murderers" do.
Click to expand...

But one thing to remember is that there are a lot more motorists than nonces, rapists & murderers so your argument doesn't stack up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top