Death Penalty in Bali

[SpikeK6]

Hey, their country their rules!

I think its this bit here that you are failing to understand.

Whether you believe it to be right or wrong there is very little that you can do about it.

We do not have these rules in great Britain for very good reasons but other countries do.

 

[big soft moose]

No wait, I've got a better one. In Muslim countries, an adult male can temporarily marry a 10 year old girl under the Mut'a law and then have sex with her, before divorcing her and going about his daily business.

Hey, their country their rules!

Now its you who is displaying ignorance and lack of research - that is not the law in most muslim countries, and even under shariah law Mut'a may or may not be legal depending on the interpretation and persuasion of the islamic scholars in charge.

nor does the koran specify at any time that its okay to abuse children - the purpose of mut'a is to describe the circumstances under which a man can have intercourse with a woman other than his wife.

 

[London Headshots]

but only in your opinion - my opinion is that that view is flawed , nearly bll modern societies sanction the taking of life when it suits their ends. The view that the basic tenets of modern society forbid it is only in keeping with an ivory towered utopian view with very little foundation in reality

I can't decide whether you are really this arrogant, or whether you are doing this deliberately to provoke an argument - but again you fail to differentiate between your opinion and fact - you are of course entitled to believe that ruth is wrong, but what makes you the divine arbiter of what is wrong or right in this , or indeed any debate ?

Honestly, for me, nothing makes me just switch off during a debate when someone tells me my opinion is my opinion. It's literally the weakest possible argument you can make against someone's case.

"Hey, rape is wrong for these reasons..."

"Well, that's your opinion, it doesn't mean you're right!"

There is no ivory tower or a utopian view, there is only the social ideals to which western civilisation must hold itself if it is to remain the guiding force in morality.

 

[AshleyC]

How interesting that a country that takes a stand against drugs is called "backwards, antiquated and corrupt"

"Take these drugs through or our people in the UK kill your kids". What would you do? buggered if i know what id do in that situation, its a horrific thought.

i think its more a case of them not being interested in investigating any possible mitigating circumstances that goes towards hightening their backward nature.

 

[London Headshots]

And I care what your view is nope don't think so.

Now your opinion is yours and I don't share it but wether you share my view or not does not concern me.

So you don't care what my view is, yet you ASKED THE QUESTION that prompted my reply. OK.

The only reason you don't care what my "view" is, is because I do happen to have had someone close to me die due to drug use. Your entire argument hinged on the opposite being true.

Don't ask me for a spoonful of soup and then scream that I'm force-feeding you.

 

[gramps]

"Take these drugs through or our people in the UK kill your kids". What would you do? buggered if i know what id do in that situation, its a horrific thought.

i think its more a case of them not being interested in investigating any possible mitigating circumstances that goes towards hightening their backward nature.

How is it that your knowledge of the case and the validity of the defense is greater than that of the court that examined the evidence?

 

[London Headshots]

Now its you who is displaying ignorance and lack of research - that is not the law in most muslim countries, and even under shariah law Mut'a may or may not be legal depending on the interpretation and persuasion of the islamic scholars in charge.

nor does the koran specify at any time that its okay to abuse children - the purpose of mut'a is to describe the circumstances under which a man can have intercourse with a woman other than his wife.

And that women can be anyone who has had their first period.

But yeah, it may or may not be legal. But if it is, hey, their scholar their rules!

You've actually made my argument even worse. You've handed power to a single individuals arbitrary judgement.

 

[srichards]

Trouble is everyone stopped with drugs will claim someone else forced them to do it. Without any proof then do you let them all off? How would you offer proof anyway?

 

[London Headshots]

How is it that your knowledge of the case and the validity of the defense is greater than that of the court that examined the evidence?

Similarly - and, hilariously ironically - how do you know the court examined the evidence?

 

[posiview]

There laws. Their country.

I am unwaveringly opposed to capital punishment.

 

[pepi1967]

So you don't care what my view is, yet you ASKED THE QUESTION that prompted my reply. OK.

The only reason you don't care what my "view" is, is because I do happen to have had someone close to me die due to drug use. Your entire argument hinged on the opposite being true.

Don't ask me for a spoonful of soup and then scream that I'm force-feeding you.

No you miss understood I said I don't care if you share my view as for someone close to you having a drug overdose I don't care about that either why would I it's not my friend I said IF they did you would be the first to sit there bleating over it. But the point still stands under their law they can execute her and rightly so.

 

[AshleyC]

How is it that your knowledge of the case and the validity of the defense is greater than that of the court that examined the evidence?

So your knowlege of the case is any better? We're both just guessing unless you were there? No, you wernt.

Thanks for turning off the ludicrousy large sig though. Helps with reading threads when theyre not there.

 

[gramps]

Similarly - and, hilariously ironically - how do you know the court examined the evidence?

How do you know they didn't?

 

[big soft moose]

Honestly, for me, nothing makes me just switch off during a debate when someone tells me my opinion is my opinion. It's literally the weakest possible argument you can make against someone's case.

If you were paying attentiuon you'd have seen that i wasn't advancing that as an argument against your argument - but against your assertion that ruth was categorically wrong

and in actual fact thats the weakest possible argument " you are wrong because i say so , your opinion is wrong and mine is right because i believe i am " - that is the view of a fundamentalist , not someone who is open to any debate

There is no ivory tower or a utopian view, there is only the social ideals to which western civilisation must hold itself if it is to remain the guiding force in morality.

But western civilisation doesnt hold itself to those ideals - as i said earlier every western country sanctions violence and killing when it suits their ends , ie to defend themselves, their citizens, and their way of life.

You can deny this if you wish, but a blinkered denial of facts is exactly what i mean about ivory towers.

for example you say that we don't kill under any circumstances - rebbutal to which as i said earlier afghanistan, iraq, falklands, korea, WW2 etc

so okay may you mean we don't kill outside of war - rebbutal Aden, cyprus, ulster, malaysia

okay so our armed forces kill but other than that we dont - except of course for armed police

so we don't kill as a punishment - well except for war crimes

well we don't kill people for general crimes - well we don't but america does and they are a major western power.

so at the end of the day we return to the basic question , is it true that we dont kill for any reason - um no, not really

Also who says that the west is the guiding light in morality - that is an extremly arrogant view, especially when you look at the failings in western society - many of which have come about in my view through lack of effective punishment of offenders

 

[AndyB1976]

The only real problem with her getting killed is that we all on this forum live in a civilized society where our laws have changed over the years, some for the good some for the bad.

If a female gets beheaded for being a witch in non secular country then thats their law not ours so wheter it be right or wrong to us is of no concequence because we do not live there we live here in our safe little country where we are protected from the death penalty.

Indeed it has no consequences to us here in the UK with our cushy lifestyles. I think we do live in a so called civilised society, yet the attitude on here seems to suggest otherwise. We are protected from the death penalty yet folk are baying for it in other lands.

Death by firing squad for 5kg is not civilised in my view, but seems so to a few on here.

I'm just astounded folk think its acceptable based arbitrary lines drawn on maps to determine where and when. Wheres the humanity in this?

 

[gramps]

So your knowlege of the case is any better? We're both just guessing unless you were there? No, you wernt.

No I'm not guessing anything - you're saying that the court's decision is invalid because you don't accept it as valid ... who are you to say that?

Thanks for turning off the ludicrousy large sig though. Helps with reading threads when theyre not there.

The 'ludicrously large sig' is Admin designed to promote a competition, if you object to it tell them ... I haven't switched anything off.

 

[simon ess]

Murder is murder.

Whether legally sanctioned or not.

That's my view and I feel it strongly.

 

[PatrickO]

This thread is going to be one of those pro vs anti death penalty debates where nobody's mind changes.

FWIW my vote is no to the death penalty. I won't go into all the arguments for/against. But I can't think of any circumstances in which it is good to kill an unarmed civilian in cold blood.

 

[big soft moose]

Death by firing squad for 5kg is not civilised in my view, but seems so to a few on here.

so does the ammount matter - would it be justified for 50kg, 500kg, etc

also I don't see us as being 'protected from it' - personally I'd be happy to see it returned for terrorism, premediatated murder, and drug trafficking in the UK - its arguably more humane than locking someone in a cell for 23 hours every day anyway.

 

[pepi1967]

Murder is murder.

Whether legally sanctioned or not.

That's my view and I feel it strongly.

And that is your opinion and wether people share it or not they should respect it. But people should also respect others views who believe that laws in other countries should also be followed.

 

[simon ess]

Agreed.

 

[onomatopoeia]

so we don't kill as a punishment - well except for war crimes

There is no offence left on in our statute, whether in war time or in peace time, for which the death penalty is retained. As of 1st Jan 2004 they are all gone, even in war time (from 1998 for peace time). No UK court can hand down a sentence of capital punishment in any circumstances.

The armed forces kill people in military action and the police sometimes kill people in the course of their duties, but these are not sentences handed down by a court and written down in statute. There is an enormous difference.

 

[Daryl]

One of my best friends died from a drug overdose. Several of my oldest friends are also addicted to heroin. Two of them have the implant. I grew up in a terrible area for drugs, and I don't share your view.

Then dealers should be terminated with out trial. Save money and time.

The reason why we have the society we do is because we don't kill, under ANY circumstances. We don't do it because it would be easy. We stick with the harder task of trying to educate and rehabilitate.

What a load of tosh. It does not work never has. Time to go back to capital and corporal punishment. 3 1/4s of crooks do it again and again because they know our nambi pambi justice systemwill not do squat.


Sorry John i have respect for you and your photography but the liberal minded kack is what has made this Country a joke.time to clean up and drop rights for prisoners.
murderers, pedos and rapists death penalty.

All others should get Hard labour.

All this bleeding heart liberal minded tosh is why the world thinks we have gone soft.

 

[London Headshots]

If you were paying attentiuon you'd have seen that i wasn't advancing that as an argument against your argument - but against your assertion that ruth was categorically wrong

and in actual fact thats the weakest possible argument " you are wrong because i say so , your opinion is wrong and mine is right because i believe i am " - that is the view of a fundamentalist , not someone who is open to any debate



But western civilisation doesnt hold itself to those ideals - as i said earlier every western country sanctions violence and killing when it suits their ends , ie to defend themselves, their citizens, and their way of life.

You can deny this if you wish, but a blinkered denial of facts is exactly what i mean about ivory towers.

for example you say that we don't kill under any circumstances - rebbutal to which as i said earlier afghanistan, iraq, falklands, korea, WW2 etc

so okay may you mean we don't kill outside of war - rebbutal Aden, cyprus, ulster, malaysia

okay so our armed forces kill but other than that we dont - except of course for armed police

so we don't kill as a punishment - well except for war crimes

well we don't kill people for general crimes - well we don't but america does and they are a major western power.

so at the end of the day we return to the basic question , is it true that we dont kill for any reason - um no, not really

Also who says that the west is the guiding light in morality - that is an extremly arrogant view, especially when you look at the failings in western society - many of which have come about in my view through lack of effective punishment of offenders

Er, I really don't know what any of that has to do with the death penalty.

You know this thread is about the death penalty, right?

 

[Tringa]

I'm against the death penalty for any crime and I would be happy to pay taxes that meant for those sentenced to life, it really meant life.

However, that's my view and other people and other countries have different views. If you commit a crime in a country where there is the possibility of the death penalty, then that is the risk you take.

What should be done in this case? Honestly, I don't know.

A British citizen should, I feel, be supported by the British government. However, this case does not appear to be one of a innocent foreigner being duped by devious drug dealers.

I'm uneasy, to say the least, that the Government should be called upon, or try, to help someone who, it seems, knowingly committed a crime in another country, simply because that country exacts the ultimate penalty.

Dave

 

[posiview]

Then dealers should be terminated with out trial. Save money and time.


What a load of tosh. It does not work never has. Time to go back to capital and corporal punishment. 3 1/4s of crooks do it again and again because they know our nambi pambi justice systemwill not do squat.


Sorry John i have respect for you and your photography but the liberal minded kack is what has made this Country a joke.time to clean up and drop rights for prisoners.
murderers, pedos and rapists death penalty.

All others should get Hard labour.

All this bleeding heart liberal minded tosh is why the world thinks we have gone soft.

Damn right. Works in the USA :shake:

 

[Daryl]

I'm against the death penalty for any crime and I would be happy to pay taxes that meant for those sentenced to life, it really meant life.

why is that Dave? why waste tax payers money keeping a murdering scrote alive?

What about the right of the victim?

They are abused, maimed or killed?
It not only affects them also their family, extended family. friends. work colleages the people who found the victim.

Selfish loosers that sell drugs, molest kids and rape women and murderers should be put down. End of.

the reason the government wont do any kind of referendum is because the British people will vote to bring back hanging. Vote to not be in europe.

The British public are fed up with being walked over by politicians and banner waving Rainbow knitted cardigan cuppa soup drinking middle class treehuggers!!!

 

[pepi1967]

This thread isn't about what works what doesn't work this thread is about a British woman convicted of a crime in another country and must suffer for her actions.

 

[Lynton]

blimey - some people need some camomile in their tea tonight.........

Personally , and this is my own opinion, i am in favour of the death penalty for certain crimes..... where there is conclusive and fair evidence to support a guilty verdict.... be that carrying a suitcase carrying 4.8kg of cocaine, or being detained in a special cell with a special toilet whilst 16 condoms of heroin drop out or your backside..

I also respect the laws of the land I happen to be in.. (though i did aviod tax on 12 bottles of pinotage I brought back from South Africa!!)

The only thing i find odd, was the prosecution were seeking 15 yrs.. but the judge upped the ante..

Part of me thinks a bit of a media stunt to reinforce the message of "Do not attempt to smuggle drugs to here"... what was her route? read from oz, from singapore, from hong kong..

 

[nikc1]

Can't do the time, don't commit the crime. Obviously never watched 'Banged up abroad'?!

 

[Daryl]

Carry drugs into another Country she gets what she deserved.

You don't need a high IQ to work out go there with case full of drugs you better say goodbye to your family, *** you ain't coming home.

 

[pepi1967]

Carry drugs into another Country she gets what she deserved.

You don't need a high IQ to work out go there with case full of drugs you better say goodbye to your family, *** you ain't coming home.

Agreed.

 

[PatrickO]

why is that Dave? why waste tax payers money keeping a murdering scrote alive?

What about the right of the victim?

They are abused, maimed or killed?
It not only affects them also their family, extended family. friends. work colleages the people who found the victim.

Selfish loosers that sell drugs, molest kids and rape women and murderers should be put down. End of.

the reason the government wont do any kind of referendum is because the British people will vote to bring back hanging. Vote to not be in europe.

The British public are fed up with being walked over by politicians and banner waving Rainbow knitted cardigan cuppa soup drinking middle class treehuggers!!!

Love your turn of phrase Daryl

You're completely wrong of course, but I like your style

 

[nikc1]

She should've gone to quickquid for a payday loan to pay the rent? Mind you, by the time she paid it off she probably would've paid back more than £1.6m

 

[Daryl]

Patrick, what about the middle class?

Yep you are right I take that back.

Bleeding heart lefties I meant.

 

[PatrickO]

Patrick, what about the middle class?

You mean should there be an automatic death penalty for them?

 

[simon ess]

You mean should there be an automatic death penalty for them?

No, just middle managers

 

[norters]

'bleeding heart lefties'

I knew that would be trotted out before midnight!

HOUSE!

 

[Daryl]

Oh that, yep.

When your best friends brother shrugs off his mortal coil to some Haddack drug dealer that mixes stuff like vim iin the score.

....and one best friend kills his girl friend because she tells him she is leaving him so he stabs her 19 times and then strangles her with a hairdryer cord. (Very rare murders happen on the Isle of Wight)

Gets life and is out in 11 year for good behaviour. Where is she now? Yes even as best mate i want him dead. she did not deserve it.

I did 6 years Scenes of Crime photographic unit. Seen allsorts. Yep terminate them.

 

[PatrickO]

'bleeding heart lefties'

I knew that would be trotted out before midnight!

HOUSE!

Never mind the drug pushers, murderers etc - it's Daryl's Rainbow knitted cardigan wearers that really need to be up against the wall. TBH cardigan wearing in general should be 20 years hard labour.