Death Penalty in Bali

[gramps]

Or you could spin the problem on its head. Legalise the drug, regulate it's production so that it isn't cut with dodgy chemicals that normally create greatest risk, and then sell it through official channels. That way you simultaneously improve the quality of the drugs available, you pull the rug from under the organisations that traffic drugs illegally and often fund more extreme interests with the profits, and prevent the need for the proliferation of new legal highs that are created in a test tube and are often far more dangerous.

It's pretty clear that a blanket ban hasn't exactly prevented their use, just like prohibition has previously completely failed to stop alcohol consumption.

Doesn't escape the consequences of the use of drugs and hence the culpability of those who traffic it. Drug abuse will never benefit from a proliferation of the drug.

 

[jockwav]

If you don,t abide by the laws of the country you travel to hell mend you,drug dealers & couriers spread death & misery all over the world.
People carrying drugs into another country know what the outcome will be if they get caught,there has been enough news coverage about it in the past.
I have absolutely no sympathy for drug dealers or couriers,she knew what she was getting into.:nono:

 

[big soft moose]

I think when people say "death sentence", they gloss over the fact that what they're really saying is "Yes, I think she should be killed for what she did".

Nobody should be killed for a crime. Not even murder. The reason why we have the society we do is because we don't kill, under ANY circumstances. We don't do it because it would be easy. We stick with the harder task of trying to educate and rehabilitate. It's what makes us better than every country that thinks executing people is a deterrent. You will never deter the desperate.

Whatever role this woman played, she is survived by people who have committed no crime, and they will grieve for the rest of their days because of this woman's actions.

An old lady is going to be blindfolded and made to stand against a wall so that her fellow humans can blow her brains out from a distance. Because she transported a drug across a border.

It's disgusting.

what you seem to have lost sight of is the the concept of crime and punishment its not about rehabilitation, or deterence, its a punishment for commiting an illegal act.

Drug addiction destroy lives - and those who smuggle them are asking for what they get if they get caught, regardless of what bull **** they come out with by way of justification

Also

The reason why we have the society we do is because we don't kill, under ANY circumstances.

really - and what do you think the army is doing in afghanistan - or previously in the falkands, or WW2 etc - saying we never kill is clearly balderdash - we sanction the taking of life when the cause is just - and if its justifiable to kill a soilder on the opposing side in war, then its equally acceptable to kill those who threaten the fabric of society in peace

 

[London Headshots]

Many people who die due to reasons only at the control of another person are survived by others who will grieve thier passing. That particular reasoning is inane.

It's inane to people who don't feel, or, more accurately, popinjays who've never really given any real thought to whatever quasi-right philosophy they're parroting.

 

[TriggerHappy]

Doesn't escape the consequences of the use of drugs and hence the culpability of those who traffic it. Drug abuse will never benefit from a proliferation of the drug.

Legalisation doesn't mean proliferation.

 

[SpikeK6]

I think when people say "death sentence", they gloss over the fact that what they're really saying is "Yes, I think she should be killed for what she did".

Nobody should be killed for a crime. Not even murder. The reason why we have the society we do is because we don't kill, under ANY circumstances. We don't do it because it would be easy. We stick with the harder task of trying to educate and rehabilitate. It's what makes us better than every country that thinks executing people is a deterrent. You will never deter the desperate.

Whatever role this woman played, she is survived by people who have committed no crime, and they will grieve for the rest of their days because of this woman's actions.

An old lady is going to be blindfolded and made to stand against a wall so that her fellow humans can blow her brains out from a distance. Because she transported a drug across a border.

It's disgusting.

I think what you are forgetting is that she did it in a country where they have this rule.

It did not happen here where she would have been fined and a slight jail sentence, she did it in a country where it is written that you smuggle drugs you will die.

For what ever reason she decided to do it whether it be for proffit or for the safety of her family only she will know., and it was not just a little amount for personal use it was enough to be deemed enough for the sentence given out.

How many people would have died had this lot of drugs got into the country through miss use, cutting with god knows what???? or does that not matter???

 

[viv1969]

what you seem to have lost sight of is the the concept of crime and punishment its not about rehabilitation, or deterence, its a punishment for commiting an illegal act.

Drug addiction destroy lives - and those who smuggle them are asking for what they get if they get caught, regardless of what bull **** they come out with by way of justification

This. Definitely.

 

[gramps]

Legalisation doesn't mean proliferation.

Really? How does that work then?

 

[viv1969]

It's inane to people who don't feel, or, more accurately, popinjays who've never really given any real thought to whatever quasi-right philosophy they're parroting.

You have no idea what I do or do not know or feel. Please do not claim to think you do. I have already stated that your view is valid and that you are entitled to it; but that does not mean that your view is the ONLY one which is valid or relevant.

 

[Gr8Shot]

I think what you are forgetting is that she did it in a country where they have this rule.

It did not happen here where she would have been fined and a slight jail sentence, she did it in a country where it is written that you smuggle drugs you will die.

For what ever reason she decided to do it whether it be for proffit or for the safety of her family only she will know., and it was not just a little amount for personal use it was enough to be deemed enough for the sentence given out.

How many people would have died had this lot of drugs got into the country through miss use, cutting with god knows what???? or does that not matter???

To some people life is one desperate struggle after another, who knows why she did it, but does it really warrant the death penalty????

 

[TriggerHappy]

Really? How does that work then?

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Portugal is a perfect case in point where legalising drugs has massively improved the associated problems with its consumption.

 

[big soft moose]

It's inane to people who don't feel, or, more accurately, popinjays who've never really given any real thought to whatever quasi-right philosophy they're parroting.

what makes you so sure that you are right though ? - saying another member doesnt feel is to use your word 'disgusting' - you are entitled to your opinion , but saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a popinjay whos never given any real thought to their argument' seriously undermines your credibility

by all means debate the view point, but don't hide behind personal insult when someone disagrees with you

 

[big soft moose]

To some people life is one desperate struggle after another, who knows why she did it, but does it really warrant the death penalty????

indonesian law says it does - in indonesia .

If we arrest an indonesian for a crime here would we welcome indonesians arguning that our laws are not appropriate , or would we tell them to stick to running their own country

 

[u8myufo]

I think when people say "death sentence", they gloss over the fact that what they're really saying is "Yes, I think she should be killed for what she did".

Nobody should be killed for a crime. Not even murder. The reason why we have the society we do is because we don't kill, under ANY circumstances. We don't do it because it would be easy. We stick with the harder task of trying to educate and rehabilitate. It's what makes us better than every country that thinks executing people is a deterrent. You will never deter the desperate.

Whatever role this woman played, she is survived by people who have committed no crime, and they will grieve for the rest of their days because of this woman's actions.

An old lady is going to be blindfolded and made to stand against a wall so that her fellow humans can blow her brains out from a distance. Because she transported a drug across a border.

It's disgusting.

What is there to gloss over, she commited a crime in a foreign country. A country which has there own laws, those laws should be respected whether you think they are right or wrong, its simple. Educate and rehabilitate, it is exactly that which is creating more of what we are seeing in this day and age. On that Death row programme the other night, they were chatting to two guy`s about one of the other inmates, they had apparently given him a hard time. When asked why, they said because after he killed this woman in her house he then turned on the 3/4yrl old little girl a wasted her as well, like he said you dont do the kind of Sheeite. Perhaps he deserved a bit of counsilling to help him get back on the road to recovery, instead of a lethal injection.

 

[SpikeK6]

To some people life is one desperate struggle after another, who knows why she did it, but does it really warrant the death penalty????

it does according to the laws of the country she broke them in.

Like I said in my post do people deserve to die because of her actions of smuggling the drugs into the country in the first place????

 

[London Headshots]

what you seem to have lost sight of is the the concept of crime and punishment its not about rehabilitation, or deterence, its a punishment for commiting an illegal act.

Drug addiction destroy lives - and those who smuggle them are asking for what they get if they get caught, regardless of what bull **** they come out with by way of justification

You do know that "crime and punishment" is just a book title, right? It's not actually a doctrine or a concept. It's literally just the title of a book.

It's certainly not the basis for the Indonesian Judicial System, which was once voted the worst in Asia. Do you know the kind of competition you're up against in Asia? To get the WORST? That's like fighting a prime Tyson and Ali on the same night and getting knockouts in the first round.

But yeah, she deserved to die under the rules of a horribly backwards, antiquated and corrupt legal system.

 

[gramps]

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Portugal is a perfect case in point where legalising drugs has massively improved the associated problems with its consumption.

So now less people use it? ... There are now less drugs in Portugal? ... Or is it just that the Government is the supplier now rather than the traffickers?

 

[AndyB1976]

Harsh, harsh, harsh.

I'm an 'eye for eye' type of guy and vehemently anti drugs. To kill a woman (or guy), the mother of children for 5kgs of coke is just wrong.

For those who argue its the law of the country and therefore consequences are justified, does that somehow negate the barbarism? Do you also accept the beheadings of females for witchcraft, refusing marriage etc in particular non-secular countries, afterall those are the laws and consequences?

 

[London Headshots]

You have no idea what I do or do not know or feel. Please do not claim to think you do. I have already stated that your view is valid and that you are entitled to it; but that does not mean that your view is the ONLY one which is valid or relevant.

No, it means mine is the only one that is in actual keeping with the basic tenets of modern society.

I didn't say you weren't entitled to yours, I said, effectively, that yours was wrong.

 

[Gr8Shot]

it does according to the laws of the country she broke them in.

Like I said in my post do people deserve to die because of her actions of smuggling the drugs into the country in the first place????

In Afghanistan it was against the law for women to do basically anything, were they right or did we try to liberate them from their oppressors

And get their natural resources of course

 

[viv1969]

You do know that "crime and punishment" is just a book title, right? It's not actually a doctrine or a concept. It's literally just the title of a book.

It's certainly not the basis for the Indonesian Judicial System, which was once voted the worst in Asia. Do you know the kind of competition you're up against in Asia? To get the WORST? That's like fighting a prime Tyson and Ali on the same night and getting knockouts in the first round.

But yeah, she deserved to die under the rules of a horribly backwards, antiquated and corrupt legal system.

A system which that country are entitled to uphold and enforce. And she should have perhaps done a little research before deciding to risk her life smuggling the drugs.

 

[big soft moose]

You do know that "crime and punishment" is just a book title, right? It's not actually a doctrine or a concept. It's literally just the title of a book.

It's certainly not the basis for the Indonesian Judicial System, which was once voted the worst in Asia. Do you know the kind of competition you're up against in Asia? To get the WORST? That's like fighting a prime Tyson and Ali on the same night and getting knockouts in the first round.

But yeah, she deserved to die under the rules of a horribly backwards, antiquated and corrupt legal system.

crime and punishment was a saying before it was taken to be the title of the book (indeed that was why Fyodor Dostoyevsky picked it) , and the reason for the saying is that the two go together - do the crime , expect the punishment if you get caught.

my opinion is that she deserves to die for smuglling drugs - simple as. I understand and respect that you do not share that view point, but please do me (and others) the courtesy of acording us the same respect for our views in return

 

[pepi1967]

A system which that country are entitled to uphold and enforce. And she should have perhaps done a little research before deciding to risk her life smuggling the drugs.

Agreed. After all it's their country their rules.

 

[gramps]

How interesting that a country that takes a stand against drugs is called "backwards, antiquated and corrupt"

 

[viv1969]

No, it means mine is the only one that is in actual keeping with the basic tenets of modern society.

I didn't say you weren't entitled to yours, I said, effectively, that yours was wrong.

Ohhhh OK. Well thank you for confirming that you are, indeed, the one true voice. All is now clear

 

[SpikeK6]

Harsh, harsh, harsh.

I'm an 'eye for eye' type of guy and vehemently anti drugs. To kill a woman (or guy), the mother of children for 5kgs of coke is just wrong.

For those who argue its the law of the country and therefore consequences are justified, does that somehow negate the barbarism? Do you also accept the beheadings of females for witchcraft, refusing marriage etc in particular non-secular countries, afterall those are the laws and consequences?

The only real problem with her getting killed is that we all on this forum live in a civilized society where our laws have changed over the years, some for the good some for the bad.

If a female gets beheaded for being a witch in non secular country then thats their law not ours so wheter it be right or wrong to us is of no concequence because we do not live there we live here in our safe little country where we are protected from the death penalty.

 

[TriggerHappy]

So now less people use it? ... There are now less drugs in Portugal? ... Or is it just that the Government is the supplier now rather than the traffickers?

The rates of drug use have fallen - and continue to fall - considerably, whilst the number of people coming forward to seek help for problems with drug addiction who otherwise wouldn't have done has increased hugely.

They haven't gone as far as complete decriminalisation - as far as I know no nation has - so to deal drugs is still an offence, which in turn means the quality of the drugs goes uncontrolled, but personal consumption and possession of personal quantities isn't an offence.

 

[London Headshots]

A system which that country are entitled to uphold and enforce. And she should have perhaps done a little research before deciding to risk her life smuggling the drugs.

You surely don't know how many brutal regimes and dictatorships you just validated by making such a heinous statement.

I think at this point, what you're saying is just mostly bravado, or a general lack of education on this subject.

What you're essentially saying is that anything is permissible if the people in power permit it.

 

[London Headshots]

Agreed. After all it's their country their rules.

Yeah, I guess we should all stop moaning about North Korea and the way they've imprisoned and starved 3 million of their countrymen. After all, their country their rules!

Same goes for Stalin's purges, or, I dunno, The Holocaust.

Guess those Jews should've kept their mouths shut. They knew what they were getting into when they stayed in Germany!

 

[pepi1967]

You surely don't know how many brutal regimes and dictatorships you just validated by making such a heinous statement.

I think at this point, what you're saying is just mostly bravado, or a general lack of education on this subject.

What you're essentially saying is that anything is permissible if the people in power permit it.

If its in their country and its their laws then yes absolutely. The same as we expect people coming to this country to follow our law and we are the first to complain when they don't.

 

[viv1969]

You surely don't know how many brutal regimes and dictatorships you just validated by making such a heinous statement.

I think at this point, what you're saying is just mostly bravado, or a general lack of education on this subject.
What you're essentially saying is that anything is permissible if the people in power permit it.

Once again on that subject you have nothing but conjecture.

 

[London Headshots]

No wait, I've got a better one. In Muslim countries, an adult male can temporarily marry a 10 year old girl under the Mut'a law and then have sex with her, before divorcing her and going about his daily business.

Hey, their country their rules!

 

[London Headshots]

Once again on that subject you have nothing but conjecture.

Yes, and you're continually strengthening my belief.

 

[pepi1967]

Yeah, I guess we should all stop moaning about North Korea and the way they've imprisoned and starved 3 million of their countrymen. After all, their country their rules!

Same goes for Stalin's purges, or, I dunno, The Holocaust.

Guess those Jews should've kept their mouths shut. They knew what they were getting into when they stayed in Germany!

Why? Did they get caught smuggling drugs into the country? And if your child died from a drug overdose would you sit there bleating about how lax the laws are in this country? It their law she broke it she can take the punishment given to her under their law.

 

[big soft moose]

No, it means mine is the only one that is in actual keeping with the basic tenets of modern society.

but only in your opinion - my opinion is that that view is flawed , nearly bll modern societies sanction the taking of life when it suits their ends. The view that the basic tenets of modern society forbid it is only in keeping with an ivory towered utopian view with very little foundation in reality

I didn't say you weren't entitled to yours, I said, effectively, that yours was wrong.

I can't decide whether you are really this arrogant, or whether you are doing this deliberately to provoke an argument - but again you fail to differentiate between your opinion and fact - you are of course entitled to believe that ruth is wrong, but what makes you the divine arbiter of what is wrong or right in this , or indeed any debate ?

 

[London Headshots]

Why? Did they get caught smuggling drugs into the country? And if your child died from a drug overdose would you sit there bleating about how lax the laws are in this country? It their law she broke it she can take the punishment given to her under their law.

One of my best friends died from a drug overdose. Several of my oldest friends are also addicted to heroin. Two of them have the implant. I grew up in a terrible area for drugs, and I don't share your view.

 

[viv1969]

Yes, and you're continually strengthening my belief.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist.

 

[Laudrup]

How interesting that a country that takes a stand against drugs is called "backwards, antiquated and corrupt"

Sounds accurate to me.

 

[gramps]

The rates of drug use have fallen - and continue to fall - considerably, whilst the number of people coming forward to seek help for problems with drug addiction who otherwise wouldn't have done has increased hugely.

They haven't gone as far as complete decriminalisation - as far as I know no nation has - so to deal drugs is still an offence, which in turn means the quality of the drugs goes uncontrolled, but personal consumption and possession of personal quantities isn't an offence.

An Interesting Read

 

[pepi1967]

One of my best friends died from a drug overdose. Several of my oldest friends are also addicted to heroin. Two of them have the implant. I grew up in a terrible area for drugs, and I don't share your view.

And I care what your view is nope don't think so.

Now your opinion is yours and I don't share it but wether you share my view or not does not concern me.