Dark Net

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Watching a program about the dark net.....really interesting stuff.......I wonder how long it will be until there is a huge migration to prevent invasion of privacy?
 
It started quite a while ago, but I doubt if there will be a 'huge migration'. Most people don't really seem to care, or accept the state's assurances that some erosion of personal privacy is the price they have to pay for safety and security. Of course, you have nothing to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong...
 
I have absolutely no issue at all about so-called 'state intrusion'. In fact, I welcome it.

I'm far more concerned where corporate intrusion is going.
 
MartynK said:
It started quite a while ago, but I doubt if there will be a 'huge migration'. Most people don't really seem to care, or accept the state's assurances that some erosion of personal privacy is the price they have to pay for safety and security. Of course, you have nothing to worry about if you're not doing anything wrong...
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Apart from that the "Darknet" is on Tor which can be a real pain to use due to slowness etc.
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A colleague at work tried it a few weeks ago and said it was like using the internet in the 90s: almost dial-up speed (due to the Tor routing I believe) and very basic websites whcih are mainly text (I think he said no javascript etc to make websites more interactive).
I can't say that I've got any desire to use it and I'm not worried about government spying (although I do somewhat agree with the above about corporate intrusion getting worse).
 
I use TOR on a daily basis as my ISP blocks certain sites I want to go to.

Not had any speed problems but worry that I may accidentally end up ona 'bad/illegal' site
 
yeah i downloaded Tor on the back on the program last night and gave it a go. Didnt notice any speed drops at all. You have to wonder how secure it is though, since the US developed it youd think they would realise how secure it would naturally be and build in some backdoors. Anyway, i went back to Chrome as that has all my bookmarks in it :)
 
essexash said:
yeah i downloaded Tor on the back on the program last night and gave it a go. Didnt notice any speed drops at all. You have to wonder how secure it is though, since the US developed it youd think they would realise how secure it would naturally be and build in some backdoors. Anyway, i went back to Chrome as that has all my bookmarks in it :)
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An interesting article i read recently on tor:-

And heres the NSA presentation "Tor Stinks"
 
trouble with using tor and encryptors etc is it just signals that you have something to hide this attracting attention - if anyone seriously believes that the NSA/GCHQ can't crack anything that's available commercially they've been believing too much hype
 
big soft moose said:
trouble with using tor and encryptors etc is it just signals that you have something to hide this attracting attention - if anyone seriously believes that the NSA/GCHQ can't crack anything that's available commercially they've been believing too much hype
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They lack the computing power to crack public key encryption with a reasonable key length in a timely fashion. The whole world combined lacks the computing power.

There is of course the whole issue of CAs being compromised and corporate IT departments configuring computers to trust their CA so they can generate any certificate they want and have it show as valid, allowing them to impersonate any remote site (e.g. online banking) and perform man in the middle attacks on employee communications with secure servers.
 
ChasG said:
I use TOR on a daily basis as my ISP blocks certain sites I want to go to.
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I don't use TOR as my ISP blocks nothing. They take a principled stand against censorship and blanket communications interception, which I fully support.
 
I'm now really curious what website is being blocked by your isp that you visit on a daily basis.

Maybe I've not lived, however I've never come across a blocked website.
 
Yes, I can imagine that. Chasg was suggesting he needs to use something legally on a daily basis and can't unless he goes underground. I'm just curious what that actually is and why the government blocks it.
 
Like what? I'd love to hear some really examples and urls please.
 
dejongj said:
Yes, I can imagine that. Chasg was suggesting he needs to use something legally on a daily basis and can't unless he goes underground. I'm just curious what that actually is and why the government blocks it.
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Has little to do with the government, other than they "advise" on some sites (usually the well known ones in the news). And legal cases from media outlets. But afaik they aren't obliged to block anything?
 
So choose a different ISP then? Still interested in actual specific examples which nobody seems to be able to give.
 
dejongj said:
So choose a different ISP then? Still interested in actual specific examples which nobody seems to be able to give.
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Sorry contrary to popular belief I don't live 24/7 on here. Im on holiday and the cats needed feeding.

:rolleyes:

Switching ISP just to get access to a few sites is a tad overkill, most of the time there are ridiculously easy to bypass (proxies, vpn etc).

As for sites, the name escapes me (and I really CBA to search for it just to please you) but there was a sharing site that was shut down that small artists were using to distribute their tracks. However as some people were using it to share copyrighted material of others, rather than letting the site deal with the misusers (it was against their t&cs and they did have an abuse process in place) it was added to the blacklist.

Shall we also discuss MS recent over zealous block of No-IP?
 
It isn't just you who have to answer Neil ;) I just find it fascinating that people can very quickly say about all these sites are are blocked and drive them to go underground. Yet nobody can actually name one.

This is not specifically directed to you, just a general observation that I find fascinating.

Further more it is coming out to light that actually it may be an individual decision by a an individual ISP. So if that is the case why not just talk with your money and switch. It really is easy to switch ISP. Whether it is overkill all depends. For me if I had to go daily about bypassing normal routing for nothing illegal I would change. However that is a personal decision.

I'm just curious about what the legal unwanted sites are and what I'm missing out on.
 
Bt seems to be open for that. Plenty of porn available :)

Can you share some specific links that are blocked :p :evil:
 
Pirate bay is possibly the most famous for being blocked by isps but this is due to a court order.....but as neil says using proxies etc are a way to gain access to blocked sites...... also when you Google certain words you may find that the isp will block the search.....
 
The only use ive found for proxies is some american TV channels online offerings are limited to servers based in america - so a NY based proxyserver allows you to watch them ( I've also heard that some previously banned members use them for troling forums after the green team block their isp )
 
dejongj said:
It isn't just you who have to answer Neil ;) I just find it fascinating that people can very quickly say about all these sites are are blocked and drive them to go underground. Yet nobody can actually name one.

This is not specifically directed to you, just a general observation that I find fascinating.

Further more it is coming out to light that actually it may be an individual decision by a an individual ISP. So if that is the case why not just talk with your money and switch. It really is easy to switch ISP. Whether it is overkill all depends. For me if I had to go daily about bypassing normal routing for nothing illegal I would change. However that is a personal decision.

I'm just curious about what the legal unwanted sites are and what I'm missing out on.
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EG talktalk blocked order-order.com
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...lters-blocking-popular-websites-guido-jezebel

A Porsche car dealership, two feminist websites, a blog on the Syrian War and the Guido Fawkes political site are among the domains that have fallen foul of the recently installed filters.
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big soft moose said:
The only use ive found for proxies is some american TV channels online offerings are limited to servers based in america - so a NY based proxyserver allows you to watch them ( I've also heard that some previously banned members use them for troling forums after the green team block their isp )
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I doubt the green team would block a whole isp due to a banned member!
 
dejongj said:
It isn't just you who have to answer Neil ;) I just find it fascinating that people can very quickly say about all these sites are are blocked and drive them to go underground. Yet nobody can actually name one.

etc.
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There is a list in the link I put in my post #13

E.g. one is The Pirate Bay. Google that name then go to the site.

When I try to connect I get "Virgin Media has received an order from the Courts requiring us to prevent access to this site in order to help protect against copyright infringement."
 
As I am using the TOR for privacy do you really think I am going to say which sites I use on an open forum?

My comment was primarily to state that I have had no speed issues
 
Rapscallion said:
I doubt the green team would block a whole isp due to a banned member!
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it depends whether they have a fixed isp address or not - if they do they can block the adress without blocking the whole isp
 
There are (at least) three types of blocking:

1. By court order. This will be for a specific site and directed at a specific ISP (or ISPs), because they are a result of a court case and so there has to be named defendants, rather than ("every UK ISP").
2. Cleanfeed. If your ISP implements this, you cannot opt out.
3. Optional "adult content" filters implemented at ISP level. These catch all sorts of things, not just porn. Gambling, alcohol, smoking, even anorexia discussion.

https://www.blocked.org.uk/ will let you test if a particular site is blocked by various ISPs. They have a page that lists the number of blocks they have detected on a per ISP basis. Plusnet don't seem bad in this regard, as ISPs that advertise on the telly go.
 
arclight said:
There is a list in the link I put in my post #13

E.g. one is The Pirate Bay. Google that name then go to the site.

When I try to connect I get "Virgin Media has received an order from the Courts requiring us to prevent access to this site in order to help protect against copyright infringement."
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I know, I looked and appreciated it.

It didn't have many actual links in there when looking on mobile phone. Perhaps blocked by Vodafone.

Pirate bay I'm not surprised. That was subject to court orders and can hardly be justified as a legal daily need. Hence I was really genuinely interested in genuine examples.
 
ChasG said:
As I am using the TOR for privacy do you really think I am going to say which sites I use on an open forum?

My comment was primarily to state that I have had no speed issues
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Fair enough regarding the speed issues. I wonder what the privacy need is to use that on a daily basis on the dark net for a genuine legal basis.
 
Rapscallion said:
I doubt the green team would block a whole isp due to a banned member!
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I've done it before mod'ing another forum.

The problem occurs when ISP uses a pool of (proxy) servers that bounce the traffic through where multiple connections (I.e forum users) show as having the same ip. When the mod bans the naughty users ip it also bans several other users.

AOL used to do it, not sure who else does these days.
 
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dejongj said:
I wonder what the privacy need is to use that on a daily basis on the dark net for a genuine legal basis.
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I guess he has certain specaialised needs :lol:
 
big soft moose said:
it depends whether they have a fixed isp address or not - if they do they can block the adress without blocking the whole isp
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If I remember rightly it was that the traffic for a few ISP went through a couple of servers almost like a proxy (and they didn't pass through the client ip) so that multiple users appeared to have the same originating ip.
 
neil_g said:
If I remember rightly it was that the traffic for a few ISP went through a couple of servers almost like a proxy (and they didn't pass through the client ip) so that multiple users appeared to have the same originating ip.
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We ran into that behaviour many years ago, our /var/log/apache/access.log (long time ago, hence not apache2) occasionally showed incongruous duplicate IP addresses which traced back to ISP proxies. Back when BT Internet were doing the 0800 dialup number between 6am and midnight, before surftime or ADSL, this could happen to people using their service (this was in late 1999 / early 2000 as I recall).

Cleanfeed does something similar.
 
Aol used to do that as well. Was great for US sites :)
 
onomatopoeia said:
We ran into that behaviour many years ago, our /var/log/apache/access.log (long time ago, hence not apache2) occasionally showed incongruous duplicate IP addresses which traced back to ISP proxies. Back when BT Internet were doing the 0800 dialup number between 6am and midnight, before surftime or ADSL, this could happen to people using their service (this was in late 1999 / early 2000 as I recall).

Cleanfeed does something similar.
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I remember those 0800 dialers :D I used to have one from "red hot ant" which was 24/7 but as it tied up the house phone line I could only use it from when the rest of the house went to sleep.

Then it was straight on to mIRC :D
 
TOR is not as secure/anonymous as you are led to believe.
It seems likely that about 25% of TOR traffic goes through links controlled by the NSA and GCHQ, at any one time.

You'll no doubt have heard of the Silk Road being closed down, and other more unsavoury sites users being arrested.
 
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