D90 + Lencarta Smartflash + SB600 - Triggering

D_Fivehundred

D_Fivehundred

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Darren
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Can someone help please...?

I am using my D90 in manual mode, with a single Lencarta Smartflash metered for f8 @ 200/s (iso 200). The settings on the camera match.

When I use the trigger supplied with the lencarta kit, everything works and exposure is fine.

But, I also want to add my SB600 behind to get the high-key effect... no problem, set it to wireless and let the smartflash to trigger it... Wrong, no matter what channel or group I use on the SB600 I can not get the Smartflash to trigger it :(

I can of course use the pop-up in commader mode, but then I can't use the hotshoe for the Lencarta trigger... simple, use the pop-up to trigger the Smartflash... Wrong, for some reason, if I use the pop-up to trigger everything, the Smartflash wont give anything like enough power, even if I turn the dial right up... it's weird...!!

I appreciate that the above may not make much sense, but hopefully someone can help :(
 
Get a wireless trigger, and sit your sb600 on it. Plug the transmitter onto your hot shoe.

The flash will fire, which will trigger the optical slave built into the smartflash. :)
 
Thanks for the quick reply

I gather that the signal that the pop-up sends to the SB600 isn't just "light"... as even with the sensor in the SB600 pointing straight at the Smartflash, I can't get it to fire.

But surely the pop-up in my D90, set to commander, performs the same function... it'll quite happily fire the SB600, but the power from the Smartflash is greatly reduced :(

Getting confused now!
 
Remember that iTTL, like all current auto flash systems, works by firing a pre-flash for metering before the shutter opens, followed by the main flash for the actual exposure. The two are so close together that you cannot distinguish them visually.

With Canon (and it sounds like Nikon is the same) the pre-flash cannot be turned off on the camera. A normal optical slave will pick up on this and fire prematurely. It looks like this might be your problem and Dave.net's suggestion of a radio trigger is the easiest way to get around that - Yongnuo RF-602 is the one most people are using these days with good reliable results. FlashInThePan (see advertisers' section) sells them for £28 a set.
 
Thanks for the response... I had hoped that the commander mode would work sufficiently, but I guess not.
 
You can't trigger an SB-600 optically from another light, it doesn't have an optical slave like the SB-800/900
 
Thanks Graham...

Would it not be possible to use the pop-up flash totrigger the SB600, then the SB600 triggers the studio lights...?

Apologies if these seem like obvious questions... :(
 
Nope, sorry, because to trigger the sb600 from the popup flash, it 'preflashes' a few times to communicate the exposure etc data, so these preflashes will set off the lencarta flash.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
Nope, sorry, because to trigger the sb600 from the popup flash, it 'preflashes' a few times to communicate the exposure etc data, so these preflashes will set off the lencarta flash.
Click to expand...

Ah, i think i see... although I am using the SB600 in manual mode, because I'm setting the power from the camera, the pop-up flash is effectively transmitting this data in the form of a pre-flash, which is separate to the flash which actually fires the Sb600.

The studio lights are seeing this pre-flash and triggering early meaning they are triggering before the shutter opens... it's not that the power is reduced, it's because they've already fired...

...simples... now I understand...!

Ok, hence the need for the new trigger (a transmitter for the camera hotshoe and a receiver for the SB600)...

Finally..!!

Thanks for helping out with this folks... much appreciated :D
 
You could always just add an optical slave to the SB-600 and trigger it that way - problem sol-ved :D
 
D_Ninety said:
Ah, i think i see... although I am using the SB600 in manual mode, because I'm setting the power from the camera, the pop-up flash is effectively transmitting this data in the form of a pre-flash, which is separate to the flash which actually fires the Sb600.

The studio lights are seeing this pre-flash and triggering early meaning they are triggering before the shutter opens... it's not that the power is reduced, it's because they've already fired...

...simples... now I understand...!

Ok, hence the need for the new trigger (a transmitter for the camera hotshoe and a receiver for the SB600)...

Finally..!!

Thanks for helping out with this folks... much appreciated :D
Click to expand...

Yes :thumbs:

Flash In The Pan said:
You could always just add an optical slave to the SB-600 and trigger it that way - problem sol-ved :D
Click to expand...

This will only work if you can disable the pre-flash. You can't do it with Canon on-board flashes. Can you with Nikon? I'd really like confirmation of that from a Nikon user. Is there a full manual mode, with adjustable power settings, with Nikon's pop-up flashes? :thinking: That is the only way the on-board can trigger a regular optical slave.
 
HoppyUK said:
With Canon (and it sounds like Nikon is the same) the pre-flash cannot be turned off on the camera.
Click to expand...
Nope, at least with Nikon.

I was just proving this to somebody on Friday actually, using his Bowens strobes along with the SB-900 flashes with both types of flash simply acting as optical slaves to a camera-mounted SB-900 on the D300s as well as with the built-in popup flash on his D80. You just set the flash to manual mode (works the same if you switch your built-in popup flash to manual mode).

Then you get a single flash from your pop-up or hotshoe mounted flash, and that triggers all of the others. I just set the hotshoed flash to run at 1/128th power so that it didn't contribute to the exposure of the final shot.

The SB-600, SB-900 (so presumably the SB-800 too), as well as the popup flash built into the D100, D200, D300s & D80 (these are the only flashes & bodies I've personally tested with) can all be set to manual mode flash to trigger optical slaves.

HoppyUK said:
I'd really like confirmation of that from a Nikon user
Click to expand...
Consider this confirmation. :)
 
Works with SB-800 too. As far as I know, it's only Canon cameras/flashes that don't seem to recognise that some people want to use studio flashes. I don't know whether that applies to every Nikon camera though.
 
Ok, so how does this change things, if at all...

Can I therefore set my pop-up to manual at it's lowest setting, then use the SB600 off camera, but set it manually (on the flash, rather than on the camera)... and will I therefore get a single flash from the pop-up that will trigger both the SB600 and the studio lights?
 
Only if you get an optical slave unit (SU-4 or cheaper alternative) for the SB-600.

The SB-800 & SB-900 have a specific "SU-4 Mode" for this purpose. The SB-600 does not, which is why you need the optical slave unit.

At that point, yes you can set your popup flash to its lowest power manual setting and then that will trigger all your lights. :)
 
D_Ninety said:
Thanks John
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks John :)

Darren, it looks like you just need one of these for a tenner. There are lots of similar about http://www.jessops.com/online.store...ssops/Minicell Slave Universal-9094/Show.html

If you are concerned about the pop-up flash affecting the image, and maybe turing the power right down means it is not powerful enough to trigger the slave, you can maybe use a bit of cardboard or something to shield the subject from the flash while deflecting the light towards your slave gun. Or cover the flash with a light IR filter (doesn't Nikon make one for just this purpose?). I have used a couple of dark red cellophane wrappers from a box of Quality Street and that worked well enough - may be worth a try.

Having said all that, a radio trigger for very little money does seem like the easiest and most foolproof way.

Final question, Canon 7D's pop-up flash is also a master controller (a Canon first - at last). Can that also be switched to full manual with adjustable power settings? *

* Just answered my own question. The answer is yes :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Indeed they do, the SG-3IR :)
Click to expand...

Thanks John.

That's a handy little toy for very little money. Also, it looks perfect for taping to the front of a separate flash gun so it can be used as an optical trigger :thumbs:
 
Yeah, it's a shame they don't include them any more. I remember my SB-50DX flashes actually coming with an IR cover that popped over the flash head for just this purpose.

But I guess if they sold an IR cover that went over the front of an SB-900, then SU-800 sales would go down.
 
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