D500

@BillN_33 With the greatest of respect, it doesn't matter whether the crop in DX is an illusion, it gives you more pixels on target (until an FF camera comes out with a high enough MP to allow a 21 (d500) or 24 (d7200) crop mode). So at 100% crop there will be more detail (well, more pixels at least) on a d500 or d7200 than on a d810. It's just a fact. With a d750 you'll get even less pixels on the bird and most likely even less detail. Each to their own and if you're happy with the D810 then that's fine, but you can read threads comparing the d500 to the d810 and you'll see that the consensus is that:
  • There's more pixels on target
  • The AF is better in every way
  • Noise is identical
To me, d750 isn't even in the same ballpark, it's not a birding camera (imo) as you just don't get as 'close'. You can see which camera will give more resolution and likely more detail from the size of the resulting image:
  1. D7200 - 6000 x 4000
  2. D500 - 5568 x 3712
  3. D810 DX - 4800 x 3200
  4. D750 DX - 3936 x 2624
I fully respect that you prefer the d810 but I totally disagree that if you can afford it you should get a d750 or d810. D810 possibly...d750 not a chance.
 
htid said:
@BillN_33 With the greatest of respect, it doesn't matter whether the crop in DX is an illusion, it gives you more pixels on target (until an FF camera comes out with a high enough MP to allow a 21 (d500) or 24 (d7200) crop mode). So at 100% crop there will be more detail (well, more pixels at least) on a d500 or d7200 than on a d810. It's just a fact. With a d750 you'll get even less pixels on the bird and most likely even less detail. Each to their own and if you're happy with the D810 then that's fine, but you can read threads comparing the d500 to the d810 and you'll see that the consensus is that:
  • There's more pixels on target
  • The AF is better in every way
  • Noise is identical
To me, d750 isn't even in the same ballpark, it's not a birding camera (imo) as you just don't get as 'close'. You can see which camera will give more resolution and likely more detail from the size of the resulting image:
  1. D7200 - 6000 x 4000
  2. D500 - 5568 x 3712
  3. D810 DX - 4800 x 3200
  4. D750 DX - 3936 x 2624
I fully respect that you prefer the d810 but I totally disagree that if you can afford it you should get a d750 or d810. D810 possibly...d750 not a chance.
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You, (we) are really discussing kit here and not images?

have you used the D810 or D750 for bird shots Chris?

do you always believe reports on the internet

why do you think that more pixels gives you better IQ or image?

what pixel density do you think you need on a cropped image to give you a good image, especially when most will be reduced considerably in size for internet posting?

Do you print large images?

How many fps do you need.

what sophistication of AF do you need for bird photography - in fact how many modes do you currently use?

Can you translate your quoted figures by posting examples - I have compared images from the cameras that I have mention and my opinions come from that .. the same goes for AF and fps in the field

"I fully respect that you prefer the d810 but I totally disagree that if you can afford it you should get a d750 or d810. D810 possibly...d750 not a chance."

In many ways the D750 is more suitable than the D810 for bird photography, (out of the box the D750 is faster, the physical size is more manageable, it has a slightly better low light performance and the AF is slightly better - points that you seem to value?), but also my view from using both but read the Reports if you prefer .......... but as you say, "the D750 not a chance" ...... not sure where or how you get your opinions.

If you like to take images of focus charts, the D810 takes a clear lead, but I feel that it would also be very good for my Dragonfly shots

but it's hardly worth the argument - we all buy what we feel is best from the information that we have .......... I may even get another D7200 as it is good for travelling with the D750 and it's cheap, both being great value for money!


what I also think is worthy of consideration is the following

Nikon now seem to use consumers as part of their "test bed" - either intentionally or not

The D600/D610 had minor problems on launch . the D750 sorted these and is a development of the D600

The D800 the same, minor problems - the D810 is a D800 with these sorted

D7200 again same procedure the refinement of the D7000

If you buy a D500, based on Nikon's recent history you should expect to be disappointed versus their hype and that the new body/system will have minor problems ..... the D500 is not a refined past model
 
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BillN_33 said:
have you used the D810 or D750 for bird shots Chris?

do you always believe reports on the internet

why do you think that more pixels gives you better IQ or image?

what pixel density do you think you need on a cropped image to give you a good image, especially when most will be reduced considerably in size for internet posting?

Do you print large images?

How many fps do you need.

what sophistication of AF do you need for bird photography - in fact how many modes do you currently use?

Can you translate your quoted figures by posting examples - I have compared images from the cameras that I have mention and my opinions come from that .. the same goes for AF and fps in the field

"I fully respect that you prefer the d810 but I totally disagree that if you can afford it you should get a d750 or d810. D810 possibly...d750 not a chance."

In many ways the D750 is more suitable than the D810 for bird photography, (out of the box the D750 is faster, the physical size is more manageable, it has a slightly better low light performance and the AF is slightly better - points that you seem to value?), but also my view from using both but read the Reports if you prefer .......... but as you say, "the D750 not a chance" ...... not sure where or how you get your opinions.

If you like to take images of focus charts, the D810 takes a lead, but I feel that it would also be very good for my Dragonfly shots

but it's hardly worth the argument - we all buy what we feel is best from the information that we have .......... I may even get another D7200 as it is good for travelling with the D750 and it's cheap, both being great value for money!
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Fair point, I've never used the d810 or d750 in any way at all. I'm sure you can get great bird shots with the d750, after all people used to get great images on 6mp sensors in the old days! :) It's just that to get the same image you'd either need to get closer or buy a longer lens. A crop sensor makes it easier to get a bigger/more detailed image. I do believe reports on the internet, yes. I've seen the proof that the d500 matches the D810 for noise. The more pixel density, the better the IQ (all things being equal), it's just a fact. You can fit more fine detail into a 100x100px square (making up say the detail of a birds eye) than you can into a 20x20px square. I never print large but I basically always crop to 100% so the more MP, the better. I'm still a bit annoyed that I've had to drop 3mp from the d7200 to the d500. FPS, 10 should do, it could mean the difference between getting a shot and not. AF, for BIF, any advantage I can get is welcomed. I've read lots of reports (which I believe) stating that the d500 AF works really well for BIF, better than both d750 and d810 (that's from people who have used the cameras).

I only discount the d750 so much because of the 'low' MP in crop mode. Ultimately, IQ is the top priority and the more MP (within reason and on a decent sensor) will give better IQ than less MP. If you say your d810 images are better, I believe you :) I personally think that more pixels on target will produce more detail though.

It's all horses for courses. If you're happy with your d810, all the better, you don't need to spend £1729 on a D500 :D
 
Chris,

I maybe wrong but I think Bill is also referring to cropping the image in post and not always in camera. Physics will tell you that a bigger sensor will catch more detail and is sharper.

I haven't used the D7200 but have owned the D7000 & D7100 and the D750 will out perform both of the crop cameras when final image is cropped for display and the AF is superior to both those crop cameras, plus noise levels, shadow and highlight recovery etc....

I have only owned my D810 for a short while, but for me the more MP is handy for cropping, the 1.2 crop mode is like 25MP and the 1.5 mode is about 16mp which are both handy. Plus you gain the extra FPS using the modes. I'm not 100% sure but you gain even more FPS if using the grip. The buffer is amazing and compared to the D7100 it's like night and day, the buffer was the biggest bug bare of mine for the D7100.

The D810 shares the same AF mode as the D4S which was Nikons flagship model until the D5 was released a few weeks ago. https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-d810/4


Hopefully your lens will be back shortly and you can give us some reviews of your findings. (y)
 
No, the grip doesn't offer you anymore FPS... That died with the D300/D700. Also, the D750 has slightly better AF than the D810 (apparently) as it is more sensitive in low light. Whether this equates to any real world difference is beyond me though. The D810 does have a wider spread of AF points though.

IMO a FF sensor will offer better results, DR, sharpness, noise etc. I don't personally see the point in using the crop modes on a FX camera, i prefer to just crop in PP. I find framing stuff with the lines a real PITA and usually end up chopping a wing/arm off :LOL:
 
minnnt said:
No, the grip doesn't offer you anymore FPS... That died with the D300/D700. Also, the D750 has slightly better AF than the D810 (apparently) as it is more sensitive in low light. Whether this equates to any real world difference is beyond me though. The D810 does have a wider spread of AF points though.

IMO a FF sensor will offer better results, DR, sharpness, noise etc. I don't personally see the point in using the crop modes on a FX camera, i prefer to just crop in PP. I find framing stuff with the lines a real PITA and usually end up chopping a wing/arm off :LOL:
Click to expand...

Just had a look around, the grip increases the FPS only in DX mode, I thought I had read something about it before. Expensive way of doing it though if you use the Nikon grip > https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-mb-d12-vs-vello-bg-n7-for-nikon-d810

I'm the same as Martin and blackout the surround of the crop mode, it makes life a lot easier especially for smaller perched birds, I can see it be a PITA for more moving larger objects / motorsport though. Can't remember if you can do this on the D750 as it wasn't something I knew about until getting the D810, although I did use the D750 in crop modes on occasions.

ETA: The D810 5 point AF is very good from my limited testing and seems better than the D750 9 point. Perhaps just a gut feeling as I'm using different lenses now.?
 
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Martyn... said:
It can be set to "black out" the surrounding area in the viewfinder ... on the D810 go to "a6 AF point illumination" and set to OFF
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That's useful, wonder if it can be done on the D750? That being said I'm better off cropping in post.
 
minnnt said:
Doesn't the FPS go up in DX mode anyway without the grip?
Click to expand...

Looking closer at the link for the crop modes, it goes from 5 to 6 fps in both crop modes and then to 7 fps using the grip.
 
All my comments relate to taking mainly bird images at mostly between 4 metres and 30 metres with Nikon 600mm, 300mm lens + the three Nikon TC's .. please bear this in mind

If I take a Landscape I stick it on f8 and point it at whatever ......... and other shots I just have a good guess and would just use a 50mm, 70 200mm or 16 35mm or maybe not a Nikon DSLR ...... I do not get deep into any other type of photography apart from Dragonflies
 
BillN_33 said:
but at least I have used the D810, D750 and D7200 and can comment on my usage
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Meaning?

I owned the D7200 and sold it to buy the D500, but the farce with delivering them has changed my mind.

The D7200 was hardly used as it did not give me the results I got from my D810. I have also dabbled with V1s as well, but again they fell short.

I have not owned the D750 and see no point while I have the D810.

The D810 has served me well for 1.5 years and the only thing that drew me to the D500 was framerate and improved focussing as I have a trip to see White tailed sea eagles coming up. I will get by with the D810

Dave.
 
Dave Semmens said:
.............and sold it to buy the D500, but the farce with delivering them has changed my mind
Click to expand...

Noooooooooooo!........I was right looking forward to having a go with it too! :( :p
 
Dave Semmens said:
Meaning?

I owned the D7200 and sold it to buy the D500, but the farce with delivering them has changed my mind.

The D7200 was hardly used as it did not give me the results I got from my D810. I have also dabbled with V1s as well, but again they fell short.

I have not owned the D750 and see no point while I have the D810.

The D810 has served me well for 1.5 years and the only thing that drew me to the D500 was framerate and improved focussing as I have a trip to see White tailed sea eagles coming up. I will get by with the D810

Dave.
Click to expand...

I think that I misunderstood you

I have the same, (similar) thoughts
 
BillN_33 said:
but at least I have used the D810, D750 and D7200 and can comment on my usage
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So have a lot of people on DPR and now prefer the d500 so everybody has their own opinions :)
 
BillN_33 said:
Many thanks

This is interesting - is Wez around

7 April 2016: The Nikon D5/D500 and Automated Lens AF Tuning
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I am now! Just got back from work :)

Would be so much easier if that was on the D810 :D

I do like the sound of the D500 but I just can't believe that the noise level is the same as the d810, or the D600 for that matter!
 
wezza13 said:
I am now! Just got back from work :)

Would be so much easier if that was on the D810 :D

I do like the sound of the D500 but I just can't believe that the noise level is the same as the d810, or the D600 for that matter!
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You've not seen the side by side comparisons I shared a link to then?

Where in Kent btw? If you're ever round Croydon area you're welcome to come and try mine out.
 
I have a D4 and a D7200 for the 'more pixels on the bird' after a few weeks it was back in the bag as I get better results using the D4.
 
Icee said:
I have a D4 and a D7200 for the 'more pixels on the bird' after a few weeks it was back in the bag as I get better results using the D4.
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How? Well if you're filling the frame or nearly doing so then fine, but if you're cropping to 100% then again how? Less noise?
 
I think you need to use a FX camera @htid just so you can appreciate the difference. It's hard to explain and I'm not even gonna start pretending i understand the technical aspects but all things being equal (other than FX vs DX fov) the FX will always offer sharper results.
 
minnnt said:
I think you need to use a FX camera @htid just so you can appreciate the difference. It's hard to explain and I'm not even gonna start pretending i understand the technical aspects but all things being equal (other than FX vs DX fov) the FX will always offer sharper results.
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Even with roughly half the amount of pixels than a d7200? I mean I've never used an FF camera in my life and I'm happy to believe it since I can't disagree with someone based on no proof...but it just sounds unlikely. Any examples of raws, same shot on d4 and d7200/d7100?
 
Would a couple of similar jpegs from a d7200 and d700 interest you Chris?
 
I have the D7200 and the D750. since buying the D750 the D7200 has hardly been used and I shoot mainly BIF and aviation. The cropped image from my D750 is better than an uncropped image from my D7200 almost every time. Just saying.
 
From my experience. I never use the D750 except if the bird is very close and can fill at least 20% of the frame or if the light is very low.
At any other time the D7200 (and now D500) offer better results.
 
htid said:
How? Well if you're filling the frame or nearly doing so then fine, but if you're cropping to 100% then again how? Less noise?
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Like David said its hard to explained, maybe it's less noise, maybe it's because the fx image can be worked more in ps, I don't know it just is.
 
Larger pixels are less demanding of the lens, less demanding of aperture, less demanding of AF, less demanding of SS/stability, and they collect more light per (less noise)... but having more/smaller pixels "combine" to negate a lot of that when displayed at an equivalent size. So at 100% view (different sizes) the larger pixel sensor will often win... but at "same size" the difference is typically negated or the smaller(more) pixels may even do better (color information/etc). However, it is possible for a lens/use to not even come close to the requirements of the small pixels, in which case the results from that sensor/lens/settings may be notably worse.

A larger sensor will win when it comes to printing simply because it has to be enlarged less (physically)... the effect is similar to zooming in on an image on screen. The less it is enlarged the better it will look (that's why different sensor sizes have different COC standards/requirements).
 
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minnnt said:
I think you need to use a FX camera @htid just so you can appreciate the difference. It's hard to explain and I'm not even gonna start pretending i understand the technical aspects but all things being equal (other than FX vs DX fov) the FX will always offer sharper results.
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I must admit always found that a bit confusing never really compared a D7200 with D810 in crop mode so not going to disagree, but If you had a crop version of the D810 sensor and compared that to the D810 in dx mode (assuming the same AF) surely they must give the same result?
 
yamahatdm900 said:
I must admit always found that a bit confusing never really compared a D7200 with D810 in crop mode so not going to disagree, but If you had a crop version of the D810 sensor and compared that to the D810 in dx mode (assuming the same AF) surely they must give the same result?
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Yes, the D7000 is/was essentially identical to the D800 DX crop (and the D810 for that matter except for the AA filter difference).
 
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