D500

Swanseajack said:
I suppose you will be keeping a very close eye on the camera when more user reviews are out. Would be a nice combo with your D810.
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I'm quite happy with the D7200 really Simon but the prospect of a crop body with very good low-light ability is attractive ... what I would like a lot more feedback on is the AF with the new spread and type of focus points. I would like to think that this will be a game-changer but then I keep thinking about the present 51-point spread and I know that using it all doesn't often benefit me and so I normally use single-point or 9-point ... how would this change with the new AF system?
 
RE the Chameleon image... you can easily use at least 1 stop higher ISO in good light w/o a noise penalty compared to low light. Being that it was lit with flash, and we don't have any clue as to processing (in camera/post), I would be hesitant to make any conclusions.

I've been hearing that Nikon may be implementing more noise filtering for raw files in the newer models (as opposed to noise reduction processing). But I don't have any firm/conclusive evidence for it.
 
Here's a 100% zoom LCD screenshot of a dark scene taken at 25,600. Being that this is a jpeg preview (camera processed) and that images generally look better on the LCD than on the computer, I'm not terribly impressed.

Screen Shot 2016-01-29 at 10.24.59 AM.jpg
 
gramps said:
Sorry but it doesn't compare to the Chameleon for me, the detail in the Chameleon and lack of noise (for ISO 51200!) is something very different IMO. :)
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Ahh, sorry got the wrong end of the stick, thought we were looking at the noise. So it's the detail is it, I'll find something with some detail and try again. Not saying I can beat it (my skills leave a lot to be desired) you've just got me interested in what my extended ISO can deliver ;)
 
sk66 said:
Here's a 100% zoom LCD screenshot of a dark scene taken at 25,600. Being that this is a jpeg preview (camera processed) and that images generally look better on the LCD than on the computer, I'm not terribly impressed.

View attachment 55608
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Agreed, the D5 ones looked much better on the LCD.
 
gramps said:
I'm quite happy with the D7200 really Simon but the prospect of a crop body with very good low-light ability is attractive ... what I would like a lot more feedback on is the AF with the new spread and type of focus points. I would like to think that this will be a game-changer but then I keep thinking about the present 51-point spread and I know that using it all doesn't often benefit me and so I normally use single-point or 9-point ... how would this change with the new AF system?
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This appeals to me too as I often wonder about getting a crop body to complement my D750 for sports and wildlife. The AF spread is of great interest to me too as I'd not have to crop images when shooting runners like I have to currently when using single point AF on the runners head. I'd have to wait for the price to drop a lot first though.
 
The AF is an unknown quantity to me ... just to clarify, with the Chameleon it is the balance of low noise and high detail that appeals to me and all of the other pics in that set are pretty good.
This is the first set that has me thinking positively about the D500 (I can't think seriously on LCD images for D5 or D500) but as with all new products there needs to be a lot more information available before anyone can make a serious decision on the cameras potential :)
 
gramps said:
The AF is an unknown quantity to me ... just to clarify, with the Chameleon it is the balance of low noise and high detail that appeals to me and all of the other pics in that set are pretty good.
This is the first set that has me thinking positively about the D500 (I can't think seriously on LCD images for D5 or D500) but as with all new products there needs to be a lot more information available before anyone can make a serious decision on the cameras potential :)
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Agreed I take sample shots with a pinch of salt, there's just far too many variables.
 
gramps said:
(I can't think seriously on LCD images for D5 or D500)
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The thing is, I have enough experience with various Nikons to have a good idea as to how an LCD preview will translate into raw on the computer... I have no idea what they did in processing and smaller image size can hide a lot (I don't actually think the detail on the chameleon is that great).

My best guess is that ~ ISO 1600 will be the low light limit for critical applications (100% web) and ~3200 for fine prints. I.e. slightly better than a D7200...
 
While the D500 has the same AF module, I haven't heard anything about whether it has a dedicated AF processor like the D5 does... I think that will probably make more of a difference.
 
sk66 said:
While the D500 has the same AF module, I haven't heard anything about whether it has a dedicated AF processor like the D5 does... I think that will probably make more of a difference.
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All the specs I've seen say "the same autofocus system and the D5", therefore as it's the system I'd assume it has the same AF processor, but time will tell I guess. It definitely has the same main processor. I wonder if they (D5 and D500) will be noticeably better than my D750 (apart from the obvious increase in AF points and fps) or whether in the real world there'll be no discernible difference. It's hard to think you can get significantly better than the D750 as it's pretty damn fast and accurate.
 
Here are the names and links to the five Photographer who have used the pre production D500's for Nikon. I know some of them have been posted before, but good to have them all in one post.

Todd Owyoung

http://www.ishootshows.com/2016/01/...n-assignment-with-the-nikon-d500-and-sb-5000/

C.S. Ling

http://wildlife.cslingphotography.com/2015/01/06/nikon-d500-c-s-ling-assignment-borneo/

Keith Ladzinski

http://www.ladzinski.com/Advertising/Nikon-D500/1/

Go Yamagata

http://goyamagata.blog69.fc2.com/

Marcel Lammerhirt

https://www.facebook.com/Marcel-Lämmerhirt-Photography-408937109166646/
 
snerkler said:
All the specs I've seen say "the same autofocus system and the D5", therefore as it's the system I'd assume it has the same AF processor, but time will tell I guess.
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It's never worked that way before with any lower/higher end models with "the same AF"... either they have less processing power/ram/bus speed,... something that always caused them to be somewhat different.
Expeed is the processing, not the processor. Kind of like running windows on different machines...
 
sk66 said:
It's never worked that way before with any lower/higher end models with "the same AF"... either they have less processing power/ram/bus speed,... something that always caused them to be somewhat different.
Expeed is the processing, not the processor. Kind of like running windows on different machines...
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I don't know how it worked with the D300 and equivalent FF (D3?) but the D500 is a pro level crop body, so more a less just a crop version of the D5 rather than an 'inferior' model per se.

Of course, I'm guessing like everyone else ;) But if the D500 doesn't have the same AF system then they shouldn't market it as saying it does :p From what I've seen recently in cameras such as the D7200 they say they have an adapted system from another body (such as the D810) rather than saying the same system, which is why this time it makes me think it's the same this time. I'm often wrong about these things though :lol:
 
Same w/ D800/D4, D810/D4s, etc (supposedly same AF systems/processing)... it's never quite worked out as the specs suggest it should (although I think the D810/D4/D4s are all very close).
 
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sk66 said:
Same w/ D800/D4, D810/D4s, etc (supposedly same AF systems/processing)... it's never quite worked out as the specs suggest it should (although I think the D810/D4/D4s are all very close).
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I've just rented a D4s and a D750 for the weekend, to accompany my D810 on a recent gundog shoot. I have to say that although on paper the 810 and 4s use the same AF, they are a world apart in real life. The D4s nailed focus almost 100% of the time, whereas the d810 and d750 missed focus or couldn't keep up with the action quite often
 
redhed17 said:
According to a supposedly leaked internal Q&A document, the AF is the same in the D500 and D5. They say the AF is the same, but the AF covers most of the frame which is the difference. (Q.22 –Q.37) Obviously time will tell, if true or not.
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On Nikon's site they tout the D5 as the first Nikon with a dedicated AF processor... they make no mention of it for the D500. They do tout the MultiCam 2k AF system, but I'm pretty sure that's just the AF and Metering modules.

I'm now seriously considering a D5 just for the AF processor....
 
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sk66 said:
On Nikon's site they tout the D5 as the first Nikon with a dedicated AF processor...
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That's interesting. Canon have been using dual processors - one for AF, one for everything else - in their high end bodies for years.
 
matty D said:
I've just rented a D4s and a D750 for the weekend, to accompany my D810 on a recent gundog shoot. I have to say that although on paper the 810 and 4s use the same AF, they are a world apart in real life. The D4s nailed focus almost 100% of the time, whereas the d810 and d750 missed focus or couldn't keep up with the action quite often
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Strange, with sports, wildlife, dogs etc my D750 misses approximately 1 in every 200 shots taken at f2.8 on the 70-200mm VRII which I wouldn't call quite often. But of course I've no idea exactly what you were shooting so if you're finding the D4s that much better I'd love to give one a go someday (y)
 
sk66 said:
On Nikon's site they tout the D5 as the first Nikon with a dedicated AF processor... they make no mention of it for the D500. They do tout the MultiCam 2k AF system, but I'm pretty sure that's just the AF and Metering modules.

I'm now seriously considering a D5 just for the AF processor....
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On the Nikon USA site I did find where it says the AF is the same as the D5. Hope it's not just marketing fluff and it really is the same.
http://www.nikonusa.com/en/about-ni...ishes-a-New-Era-of-DX-Format-Performance.html
http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/product/digital-cameras/slr/professional/d500#tech_specs

Autofocus
  • Multi-CAM 20K autofocus sensor module with TTL phase detection, fine-tuning, and 153 focus points (including 99 cross-type sensors and 15 sensors that support f/8), of which 55 (35 cross-type sensors and 9 f/8 sensors) are available for selection
 
From the Nikon USA link above by xmh.

To keep pace with the action, the D500 is fitted with the same AF system as the Nikon D5, the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, with a separate dedicated processor for AF function. On the D500’s DX format sensor, the 153-point AF array fills the frame from side to side, letting users flawlessly track and lock-onto subjects from the edges of the viewfinder. Like the D5, the D500 utilizes the new 180K RGB Metering system and Advanced Scene Recognition System to help ensure balanced exposures and fantastic color rendition in nearly any shooting situation.
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I'd get that confirmed somewhere else though as one of the Nikon sites said the D500 had an internal Flash, (which it doesn't) so all the info may not be up to date around the world. ;)

I think Nikon have pushed the boat out as far as the D500 spec is concerned, like Canon did with the 7DII.
 
I can only find reference from Nikon that the D500 has a 'Dedicated AF engine'. To me this does not suggest a separate AF processor (as in the D5) but a work around. Time will tell when more information is available.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
I can only find reference from Nikon that the D500 has a 'Dedicated AF engine'. To me this does not suggest a separate AF processor (as in the D5) but a work around. Time will tell when more information is available.
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Did you not click on the link xmh posted, that I took the quoted text from? :thinking:

As long as Nikon USA have got their info correct, it seems pretty definite that it has got the same AF as the D5, with the separate AF processor.
 
snerkler said:
Strange, with sports, wildlife, dogs etc my D750 misses approximately 1 in every 200 shots taken at f2.8 on the 70-200mm VRII which I wouldn't call quite often. But of course I've no idea exactly what you were shooting so if you're finding the D4s that much better I'd love to give one a go someday (y)
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You must have a much better knack of keeping the dot on the dogs eye than me, even with the D4s I missed more than 1/200. My usual hit rate with my D810 and 70-200vrii is around 50%, I experienced similar results with the D750. I'm obviously s*** then :p
 
redhed17 said:
Did you not click on the link xmh posted, that I took the quoted text from? :thinking:
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Presumably the same link that you said that you would "get that confirmed elsewhere" LOL ;)

I haven't seen it anywhere else yet have you ?

Mixed reports about the pop-up flash just throw doubt on to the table. This link clearly states it has one, other official sites state it doesn't.
 
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matty D said:
You must have a much better knack of keeping the dot on the dogs eye than me, even with the D4s I missed more than 1/200. My usual hit rate with my D810 and 70-200vrii is around 50%, I experienced similar results with the D750. I'm obviously s*** then :p
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Lol not at all, and it doesn't mean I'm particularly good either. There's a lot of variables obviously, especially if you're shooting closer the relative speed is far greater and so harder to track. Then there's light, contrast of the subject etc etc (y)
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Presumably the same link that you said that you would "get that confirmed elsewhere" LOL ;)

I haven't seen it anywhere else yet have you ?

Mixed reports about the pop-up flash just throw doubt on to the table. This link clearly states it has one, other official sites state it doesn't.
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I was only half joking. ;)

It was just that you made it sound like you hadn't read the quote or visited the Nikon USA link. :rolleyes: ;)
 
A 'dedicated AF Processor' is not new to Nikon.

Both the D7200 and D300s had a Dedicated AF Processor so the is 'evolution not revolution'. Both the D7200 and D300s had the Multicam 3500 II AF Sensor

That said it's AF capability is pretty impressive. I'm looking forward to seeing some post-production model results, images and test reports.
 
Blank_Canvas said:
A 'dedicated AF Processor' is not new to Nikon.

That said it's AF capability is pretty impressive. I'm looking forward to seeing some post-production model results, images and test reports.
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I too would like to see some images/reviews other than those sponsored by Nikon.

Pretty sure they have all been posted elsewhere but just in case you missed them.

Nikon Europe Flickr album for D500 11 images with exif: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikonphotostream/albums/72157661898926193
 
Blank_Canvas said:
A 'dedicated AF Processor' is not new to Nikon.

Both the D7200 and D300s had a Dedicated AF Processor so the is 'evolution not revolution'. Both the D7200 and D300s had the Multicam 3500 II AF Sensor

That said it's AF capability is pretty impressive. I'm looking forward to seeing some post-production model results, images and test reports.
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No they didn't... Nikon has never used dual processors before.

Quoted from the Nikon D5 product page: "For the first time in a Nikon DSLR, a second processor is dedicated solely to autofocus operation and computing"

While the D500 also uses Multicam 20K and expeed 5, there is no *current* production information stating it uses a second dedicated processor. And none that says it doesn't, but I'd be surprised they would not tout that if it had it... they're touting the dual XQD slots...

BTW, the dual XQD slots also accept SD cards.... thats pretty cool.
 
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I got to play with both a D5 and D500 yesterday

The D500 is small and light, but for my uses offers little that I don't already have in the far cheaper D7200

Sometimes a technology based jump just isn't big enough to be worth making, for me, this is one such case

Dave
 
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