D500 & 600mm aperture problem

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Danny
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Hope someone can help!

As a newcomer to Nikon, we have recently bought a new D500 and a used AFS 600mm f4 dii specifically for wildlife / birding and I'm having a few issues.

First of all, I noticed an issue where it just wouldn't focus on some of the outer focus points and today we worked out what might be causing the problem, I think the aperture control isn't working properly so that not enough light is getting in. Sat in a hide next to another photographer just now waiting for a kingfisher, we we're comparing settings and they were well out. On ISO 2000 at f4 I was getting around 1/400 a second and he was getting between 1/2500 and 1/3200, quite a difference (although he was using a 500 f4 I don't think it would affect it that much)!

This was when I started playing with the aperture ring and realised that if I manually set it to f4 the viewfinder was a lot brighter than leaving it on the lens' auto setting (f22 in orange). The only problem here is that the camera won't give a meter reading or fire the shutter. My guess is that there is a setting in the camera that would allow me to use the aperture ring in 'manual' mode, but I can't find it. What is more of a problem of course is that the viewfinder should be a lot brighter than it is when the lens is in it's auto aperture setting, could this be me not setting up the camera correctly as I'm new to Nikon, or do you think the lens is faulty? The aperture lever itself does not appear to be sticky at all.

Would appreciate any help / thoughts you can give!
 
Danny - how you checked the Nikon compatibility chart with that lens and body?
 
BillN_33 said:
Danny - how you checked the Nikon compatibility chart with that lens and body?
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm not aware of that chart but would there be any reason at all why they wouldn't be compatible?
 
Unlocker said:
Hi, I'm not aware of that chart but would there be any reason at all why they wouldn't be compatible?
Click to expand...

They would appear to be compatible with no restrictions

D500
"Compatible with AF NIKKOR lenses, including type G, E and D lenses (some restrictions apply to PC lenses) and DX lenses, AI-P NIKKOR lenses, and non-CPU AI lenses (A and M modes only); IX-NIKKOR lenses, lenses for the F3AF, and non-AI lenses cannot be used
The electronic rangefinder can be used with lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster (the electronic rangefinder supports 15 focus points with lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/8 or faster, of which 9 points are available for selection)"
 
Hi Bill

Thanks for that, at least we know there are no compatibility issues.

Sat in the hide now and it seems like the viewfinder brightness in 'Auto' setting is equal to either F8 or F11 when setting it manually. My presumption is that when it is in 'Auto' it should be at it's brightest when manually set at F4?

Is there any way of using these lenses in a manual aperture setting? In my Pentax cameras there is a 'use aperture ring' setting. If I could do that at least I could see what the shutter speed should be at F4.
 
Unlocker said:
Hi Bill

Thanks for that, at least we know there are no compatibility issues.

Sat in the hide now and it seems like the viewfinder brightness in 'Auto' setting is equal to either F8 or F11 when setting it manually. My presumption is that when it is in 'Auto' it should be at it's brightest when manually set at F4?

Is there any way of using these lenses in a manual aperture setting? In my Pentax cameras there is a 'use aperture ring' setting. If I could do that at least I could see what the shutter speed should be at F4.
Click to expand...

The lens does not have an aperture ring

I am not familiar with the D500 - but cannot you just set it to M, (on the top dial) and then f4 on one of the wheels, (RHS) and then turn the other wheel until the exposure is "balanced" at the correct shutter speed
 
Update.

With everything set to centre point, picking a bright area to focus on I'm getting 1/1000s, switching to live view with same settings I'm getting 1/4000s.

Now we need to work out if that's a camera or lens issue, so guessing that I'd better get in touch with Nikon!
 
Unlocker said:
Update.

With everything set to centre point, picking a bright area to focus on I'm getting 1/1000s, switching to live view with same settings I'm getting 1/4000s.

Now we need to work out if that's a camera or lens issue, so guessing that I'd better get in touch with Nikon!
Click to expand...

What focus mode are you using - I am not sure if LV can use all the focus modes that are available - I notice this if say I have spot exposure and single cell focus - if I switch to LV the settings change

I thought that you have the Nikon 600mm f4 ED-IF ll AFS, the last before the VR model - has that got an aperture ring?
 
Using single point focussing and centre spot exposure in both viewfinder and live view.

Yes, it's the last one before the VR models and it does have an aperture ring.
 
Unlocker said:
Using single point focussing and centre spot exposure in both viewfinder and live view.

Yes, it's the last one before the VR models and it does have an aperture ring.
Click to expand...

That's the lens I have and I have never noticed - always been covered with camo material

(just looked - it does!! - just never noticed it)
 
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You shouldn't have an issue with that lens on the D500.
Has it worked recently with another body?
Have you cleaned the lens contacts?
Does doing a 'soft' reset help (press [QUAL] and [+/-] together and hold for 3 secs).
If all that fails it would seem to be a problem, probably with the lens.
You can set it to work as a non-CPU lens in the setup menu (manual pp 250/251).
 
gramps said:
You shouldn't have an issue with that lens on the D500.
Has it worked recently with another body?
Have you cleaned the lens contacts?
Does doing a 'soft' reset help (press [QUAL] and [+/-] together and hold for 3 secs).
If all that fails it would seem to be a problem, probably with the lens.
You can set it to work as a non-CPU lens in the setup menu (manual pp 250/251).
Click to expand...

Managed to find those options earlier but following the instructions including p252, I cannot turn on the Non cpu data and cannot assign it to a function button either! Why do so many things in this camera not have an on and off option!
 
Unlocker said:
Managed to find those options earlier but following the instructions including p252, I cannot turn on the Non cpu data
Click to expand...
I don't understand, what is preventing you setting data for a non-CPU lens in the Setup Menu?
 
gramps said:
I don't understand, what is preventing you setting data for a non-CPU lens in the Setup Menu?
Click to expand...

Nothing is stopping me from entering data for a non -cpu lens. The trouble is, it does nothing. There is no option to activate it and the manual says to assign it to a function button but there is no option for non cpu lens data in the function button options. It's very very frustrating!
 
I'm guessing that the lens has sticky aperture blades, or the return spring is busted/disconnected.

Looking at the lens mount on the lens there is a little lever that sticks up. That is what the camera moves to adjust the aperture and it should be spring loaded to the maximum aperture. If you move it and it doesn't spring back fully, then it's sticky blades (or possibly the lever is binding). If it doesn't spring back at all, then the spring is broken/disconnected.
It's also possible that the aperture lever is out of alignment/calibration. In that case you do not want to manually set the lens to f/4 because it is pushing/forcing the activating lever inside the camera against it's stop where it "should be."
 
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Unlocker said:
Nothing is stopping me from entering data for a non -cpu lens. The trouble is, it does nothing. There is no option to activate it and the manual says to assign it to a function button but there is no option for non cpu lens data in the function button options. It's very very frustrating!
Click to expand...
The lens has a chip... Non-CPU data is only "functional" if the lens mounted doesn't have a chip. It doesn't need assigned to a button, that just makes it easier/quicker to get to.
 
Unlocker said:
Nothing is stopping me from entering data for a non -cpu lens. The trouble is, it does nothing. There is no option to activate it and the manual says to assign it to a function button but there is no option for non cpu lens data in the function button options. It's very very frustrating!
Click to expand...

I don't think you need to assign it to a function button ... fit the lens and dial in the non-CPU lens number, e.g. "1" if this is the first, set the length and maximum aperture and the camera should recognise that lens when it is used. Have you tried using it that way?
 
gramps said:
I don't think you need to assign it to a function button ... fit the lens and dial in the non-CPU lens number, e.g. "1" if this is the first, set the length and maximum aperture and the camera should recognise that lens when it is used. Have you tried using it that way?
Click to expand...
Not quite. When an un-chipped lens is used the camera cannot recognize it... there's nothing to communicate with. You add non-CPU lenses to the database, then when you are using one you go into the database and activate that one. The camera will not apply non-cpu data to a lens it recognizes/can communicate with, so you don't have to "disable" the non-cpu lens when you switch to a chipped lens.

*If you only have one non-cpu lens, then the camera will automatically switch to it if left enabled.
 
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This might be a daft question but have you locked the aperture ring in place?
 
sk66 said:
Not quite. When an un-chipped lens is used the camera cannot recognize it... there's nothing to communicate with. You add non-CPU lenses to the database, then when you are using one you go into the database and activate that one. The camera will not apply non-cpu data to a lens it recognizes/can communicate with, so you don't have to "disable" the non-cpu lens when you switch to a chipped lens.

*If you only have one non-cpu lens, then the camera will automatically switch to it if left enabled.
Click to expand...
Would this still apply if the communication with the CPU was lost?
 
sk66 said:
I'm guessing that the lens has sticky aperture blades, or the return spring is busted/disconnected.

Looking at the lens mount on the lens there is a little lever that sticks up. That is what the camera moves to adjust the aperture and it should be spring loaded to the maximum aperture. If you move it and it doesn't spring back fully, then it's sticky blades (or possibly the lever is binding). If it doesn't spring back at all, then the spring is broken/disconnected.
It's also possible that the aperture lever is out of alignment/calibration. In that case you do not want to manually set the lens to f/4 because it is pushing/forcing the activating lever inside the camera against it's stop where it "should be."
Click to expand...

Hi Steven, my main system for the last few years has been Pentax so I'm used to every lens having an aperture lever. It is not sticking, it springs back fine and the blades are not sticking.

sk66 said:
The lens has a chip... Non-CPU data is only "functional" if the lens mounted doesn't have a chip. It doesn't need assigned to a button, that just makes it easier/quicker to get to.
Click to expand...

All Pentax lenses that I have used with an Aperture ring have a 'cpu', an 'A' setting on the ring and if I set the ring to f4, f4 shows on the camera. There is no difference, I was hoping this would be the same to help me with my fault finding.
 
gramps said:
Would this still apply if the communication with the CPU was lost?
Click to expand...
If the CPU communication was lost due to bad contacts or broken ribbon, then the lens *would be* a non CPU lens. I imagine that if that were to happen AND you had appropriate data loaded/selected, then the camera would switch to that data when it failed.

I've never lost CPU communication before... even with dirty contacts.
 
sk66 said:
If the CPU communication was lost due to bad contacts or broken ribbon, then the lens *would be* a non CPU lens. I imagine that if that were to happen AND you had appropriate data loaded/selected, then the camera would switch to that data when it failed.

I've never lost CPU communication before... even with dirty contacts.
Click to expand...

A chance then but remote :)
 
gramps said:
I don't think you need to assign it to a function button ... fit the lens and dial in the non-CPU lens number, e.g. "1" if this is the first, set the length and maximum aperture and the camera should recognise that lens when it is used. Have you tried using it that way?
Click to expand...

This is the issue, how do you 'dial in' the cpu lens number?

Setup menu - non cpu lens data - fill in 600mm and f4 under number 1 and save. This is what I have done, but when you use the aperture ring you get fEE error.

The manual says 'if the maximum aperture of the lens is known, the aperture value is displayed in the control panel and the viewfinder'. This does not happen!

P252 "assign non CPU lens number selection to a camera control using custom setting F1. In custom control settings I cannot find an option to assign this to a camera control, you can see why this is frustrating!
 
Unlocker said:
Hi Steven, my main system for the last few years has been Pentax so I'm used to every lens having an aperture lever. It is not sticking, it springs back fine and the blades are not sticking.

All Pentax lenses that I have used with an Aperture ring have a 'cpu', an 'A' setting on the ring and if I set the ring to f4, f4 shows on the camera. There is no difference, I was hoping this would be the same to help me with my fault finding.
Click to expand...
If the camera is set so it expects to have control of the aperture and it doesn't you will get an "FEE" error (i.e. not set to f/22). My PC-e lens has an aperture ring and a chip, but the camera knows it cannot control the aperture (there's no link). With that lens the camera shows the aperture as set on the lens (communicated electronically). I don't think I have a lens like yours anymore... I'll look.
 
sk66 said:
If the CPU communication was lost due to bad contacts or broken ribbon, then the lens *would be* a non CPU lens. I imagine that if that were to happen AND you had appropriate data loaded/selected, then the camera would switch to that data when it failed.

I've never lost CPU communication before... even with dirty contacts.
Click to expand...

So basically, 'this is a CPU lens so we will not let you use the aperture ring even if you want to?' Sounds about right with my Nikon experience so far!
 
EE - f22

do you set the aperture at f22, (on the aperture ring), when you use the lens normally ........ that's the way it works
 
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Icee said:
This might be a daft question but have you locked the aperture ring in place?
Click to expand...

Yes! It's set at f22 in orange, the switch is towards the camera body so that the 2 orange dots line up.
 
BillN_33 said:
EE - f22

do you set the aperture at f22, (on the aperture ring), when you use the lens normally ........ that's the way it works
Click to expand...

Yup, it's using it that way that seems to be causing the problems!
 
Have you used the lens on any other camera body?
Can you try it on any other body?
It could be a faulty lens that needs repairing/refunding.
 
Are you fixing the iso at 2000 or is it set to auto and if so what are your settings?
 
gramps said:
Have you used the lens on any other camera body?
Can you try it on any other body?
It could be a faulty lens that needs repairing/refunding.
Click to expand...

It was used on a D810 last week before we were aware of the problems found today, that is reading approx 1/500s when a similar setup at the same settings was showing 1/2500 - 1/3200s, so that would need to be compared with a similar Nikon setup to compare and confirm a problem.

It probably is a faulty lens, but as I'm currently out in the field I'm doing the best I can to work out the issues. Not being able to use a feature of the lens is defeating me with the options I have available here!

It's a bit like WiFi that cant be turned on to use with computers and virtual level not having an on/off option, has Nikon always been this bloody frustrating?
 
You should be able to use the aperture ring if you set the camera to manual mode.

Here's the main question... are your exposures off? Is there any exposure compensation set? If both of those are ok, then I wouldn't get overly concerned. Your best bet is to compare another f/4 lens on your body if possible. Different manufacturers and different models offset the reported ISO from the actual ISO in different amounts... It's quite likely a Canon will give different exposure setting (but only by about 1/3-1/2 stop).
I have lenses that just the rotational play in the lens mount is enough to make a noticeable difference in viewfinder brightness.
 
With the D500 the way I use the longer lenses is to set the exposure mode to M on top dial, set the aperture to f4 and the shutter speed to (say) 1250.
I then go into iso settings, base is 100 and enable auto iso. Set minimum shutter speed (you have to set something - say 400) and then max Iso of 10,000. This allows the camera to vary the exposure as it sees fit, (via iSo) but you get the aperture and shutter speed you want.
 
Right, out early in the hides and I've finally worked some things out.

You can only use non cpu data with a custom control & dial combo, wish it said this in the manual!. After half an hour I worked out that even though it shows the rear dial, you can use the front as well. Still get the fEE report though.

All options re: non cpu data on pages 250 - 252 in the manual are not usable with this lens. At all. My guess is that is because it DOES have a CPU.

Now, this took a while to find! Even though you are not customising a dial, you have to go into Controls - Customize command dials - Aperture setting - Aperture ring. That's it. Now I can get on with problem solving.

With a bright scene behind the stick I was hoping to get a kingfisher landing on, with camera controlling aperture, I was getting 1/1600s at f4. When controlling the aperture manually, f4 was showing at 1/6000s, a lot better, so it looks like it's 2 stops out.

Playing with the aperture ring more carefully, it's 'less clicky' below f8, so I'm guessing this is the problem. Looks like the aperture ring needs servicing even though the lever is fine! Any advice on where to go for service / repair that's reliable? I'm about 50 miles from Richmond so Nikon direct might be the best option?

PS, thanks to all for the help!
 
Peter123 said:
With the D500 the way I use the longer lenses is to set the exposure mode to M on top dial, set the aperture to f4 and the shutter speed to (say) 1250.
I then go into iso settings, base is 100 and enable auto iso. Set minimum shutter speed (you have to set something - say 400) and then max Iso of 10,000. This allows the camera to vary the exposure as it sees fit, (via iSo) but you get the aperture and shutter speed you want.
Click to expand...

That's exactly how I'm using it, although the pedantic in me hates the concept of an automatic setting in Manual mode! All the Pentax cameras I've used have a TAV mode which is exactly this. Manual is then, only, manual!
 
BillN_33 said:
They would appear to be compatible with no restrictions

D500
"Compatible with AF NIKKOR lenses, including type G, E and D lenses (some restrictions apply to PC lenses) and DX lenses, AI-P NIKKOR lenses, and non-CPU AI lenses (A and M modes only); IX-NIKKOR lenses, lenses for the F3AF, and non-AI lenses cannot be used
The electronic rangefinder can be used with lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/5.6 or faster (the electronic rangefinder supports 15 focus points with lenses that have a maximum aperture of f/8 or faster, of which 9 points are available for selection)"
Click to expand...

Wow, Nikon lens compatibility looks complex!
 
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Unlocker said:
With a bright scene behind the stick I was hoping to get a kingfisher landing on, with camera controlling aperture, I was getting 1/1600s at f4. When controlling the aperture manually, f4 was showing at 1/6000s, a lot better, so it looks like it's 2 stops out.
Playing with the aperture ring more carefully, it's 'less clicky' below f8, so I'm guessing this is the problem. Looks like the aperture ring needs servicing even though the lever is fine! Any advice on where to go for service / repair that's reliable? I'm about 50 miles from Richmond so Nikon direct might be the best option?
Click to expand...
Something doesn't sound right, but I'm still not sure what... maybe the aperture ring/lever is out of adjustment and it doesn't open fully unless forced manually. But I'm not sure how/why that would work because it still relies on the return spring to open the aperture. And two stops is a lot of error/adjustment. The camera doesn't use the "click stops."

It may be the aperture following lever on the camera, except that doesn't explain a difference in brightness through the viewfinder. If you program a non-cpu lens into it (say a 35/2), with no lens attached the camera should report f/2. Then as the lever is moved the aperture reported should stop down smoothly/continually until it reaches the other end of travel. The lever is at the top of the lens mount on the front of the camera... I suspect it is fine.

You never said if you have exposure compensation enabled/programmed... if there is a -2 EC that could explain it. When the camera is in control it sets the -2 programmed. But when the camera is not in control (or the adjustment is out of range) it doesn't set the -2. Auto bracketing could also do something similar. Both of those would result in "wrong" exposures though.

I always use Nikon USA for repairs. If you can have them look at the lens and body together that would probably be best.
 
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