D’oh…SD card fails during Tony Northrups Canon EOS-R review

Mr Badger said:
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Exactly, there's not much point in wearing a belt and braces if a bulldog has just ripped the backside out of your trousers! :whistle:
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lol :D That saying can be used elsewhere........ the bulldog being Canon, the backside being the Canon's buyers bum and being ripped as in being ripped off! £3k !!! D: lol
 
Radiohead said:
Except that's NOT what happened.
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So what happened then? We appear to have a few seconds/minutes of footage then it breaks down. Doesn't the whole card usually corrupt if it goes bad? Was this therefore caused by some sort of camera malfunction in that case? If so, how would having 2 cards have helped there? Was it a dud batch of cards? In which case the likelihood is that they'd have had two of the same batch in the camera while filming that video.

Sometimes 2 cards aren't going to help. Should a camera like that have 2 card slots? Well, that's a whole different question.
 
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Mr Badger said:
So what happened then, we appear to have a few seconds of footage then it breaks down. Doesn't the whole card usually corrupt if it goes bad? Was this therefore caused by some sort of camera malfunction in that case? If so, how would having 2 cards have helped there? Was it a dud batch of cards? In which case the likelihood is that they'd have had two of the same batch in the camera while filming that video.

Sometimes 2 cards aren't going to help. Should a camera like that have 2 card slots? Well, that's a whole different question.
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It can only be two real scenarios here...

1- The SD card genuinely failed
2- The SD didn't fail and its a big store (lie) to generate more traffic

Either way, its bad press for the Canon R which seems to be getting a lot of criticism.
 
Mr Badger said:
So what happened then, we appear to have a few seconds/minutes of footage then it breaks down. Doesn't the whole card usually corrupt if it goes bad? Was this therefore caused by some sort of camera malfunction in that case? If so, how would having 2 cards have helped there? Was it a dud batch of cards? In which case the likelihood is that they'd have had two of the same batch in the camera while filming that video.

Sometimes 2 cards aren't going to help. Should a camera like that have 2 card slots? Well, that's a whole different question.
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Sometimes you just get a corrupt file in the card. Or a few corrupt files. Or suddenly an error pops up and the card goes dead but you can only recover X% of the files leaving the others unrecoverable.
 
Radiohead said:
He didn't say 3 CARDS, it was 3 CLIPS. One card, 3 clips. 4m34s in
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Radiohead said:
Except that's NOT what happened
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Maybe I should've been working and payed more attention to the detail (and his diction needs improving) ....

I'd still like to know why he was so pleased a Canon rep was at hand during the 'minded' field trip. I'm minded to think there are bits not being told here.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Sometimes you just get a corrupt file in the card. Or a few corrupt files. Or suddenly an error pops up and the card goes dead but you can only recover X% of the files leaving the others unrecoverable.
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I see. (y) fortunately, in over 19 years of using digital cameras (Fuji, Casio, Minolta, Sony and Canon) I've never had a card fail on me (touch wood!), so either I've been very lucky or having 2 card slots may not be as important as it might seem to some people? However, if I were a pro shooting unrepeatable events and/or wanted some peace of mind then I'd want a camera with 2 card slots. As it stands, I'm happy enough with the one slot I have on my camera. Would I expect 2 card slots on a 'top spec' camera costing over £2k, yes I think I would, unless there was a very good reason for it not having this feature.
 
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Mr Badger said:
So what happened then? We appear to have a few seconds/minutes of footage then it breaks down. Doesn't the whole card usually corrupt if it goes bad? Was this therefore caused by some sort of camera malfunction in that case? If so, how would having 2 cards have helped there? Was it a dud batch of cards? In which case the likelihood is that they'd have had two of the same batch in the camera while filming that video.

Sometimes 2 cards aren't going to help. Should a camera like that have 2 card slots? Well, that's a whole different question.
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He says in the video at 4m34s. 2 or 3 clips didn't record. All cards run NAND memory. They also employ controllers for error checking and wear levelling. Sometime the controller fails (in which case the card is gone) and sometime some of the NAND cells fail. That sounds like what happened here. It's NOT a camera fault. So having a second card would mitigate against that unless that card was also faulty (hence the use of the word mitigate).

The linguistic gymnastics being employed here to somehow let Canon off the hook for this s***ty and deliberate decision are hilarious.
 
Riz_Guru said:
It can only be two real scenarios here...

1- The SD card genuinely failed
2- The SD didn't fail and its a big store (lie) to generate more traffic

Either way, its bad press for the Canon R which seems to be getting a lot of criticism.
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About things that won’t matter to most photographers in the real world who don’t give a damn about 1.8 crop 4K, single card slot etc etc and just want to take some photographs that will be indistinguishable from those taken with the Sony A73 or any other decent camera. And the Nikon will be the same.
 
Radiohead said:
He says in the video at 4m34s. 2 or 3 clips didn't record. All cards run NAND memory. They also employ controllers for error checking and wear levelling. Sometime the controller fails (in which case the card is gone) and sometime some of the NAND cells fail. That sounds like what happened here. It's NOT a camera fault. So having a second card would mitigate against that unless that card was also faulty (hence the use of the word mitigate).

The linguistic gymnastics being employed here to somehow let Canon off the hook for this s***ty and deliberate decision are hilarious.
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Ah, the joys of a fast moving thread and typing a post while others are doing the same! Thanks for explaining, I wonder what caused the fault then, as I said, I've never yet had a card go bad on me, and I wouldn't really expect this of a new card (unless someone brought an old one and used that?) in a new camera. I know anything can potentially break at any moment though, so no need for anyone to point that out.

As for 'linguistic gymnastics being employed to let Canon off the hook' I couldn't care less about what happened and to whom. I don't vlog or use an SLR type camera to shoot video (I have a video camera for that) so I've no interest in that sort of camera, no matter who made it! (y) I've already shared my thoughts on the one slot v two slot issue, so that's me out. :)
 
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chuckles said:
I'd still like to know why he was so pleased a Canon rep was at hand during the 'minded' field trip. I'm minded to think there are bits not being told here.
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I would assume that if this happened in the presence of a Canon rep, then he couldn't be accused of anything underhand. Seems obvious to me. :rolleyes:
 
Gaz J said:
About things that won’t matter to most photographers in the real world who don’t give a damn about 1.8 crop 4K, single card slot etc etc and just want to take some photographs that will be indistinguishable from those taken with the Sony A73 or any other decent camera. And the Nikon will be the same.
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Except you can make some awesome really wide angle footage with the Sony :)
And shift between stills and video with the same angle of view without changing lenses
 
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Ok so I've not followed all the posts but is it definitely a card failure and not that the file's not been written right in the first place? If it's the latter it wouldn't matter if it had 1, 2 or 10 card slots as they all would've had errors.

Also, am I the only one that seems to like the Northrups and Jared Polin's videos? Sure there's some nonsense in there from time to time, but on the whole they're pretty informative and done in a good way (IMO).
 
snerkler said:
Ok so I've not followed all the posts but is it definitely a card failure and not that the file's not been written right in the first place? If it's the latter it wouldn't matter if it had 1, 2 or 10 card slots as they all would've had errors.

Also, am I the only one that seems to like the Northrups and Jared Polin's videos? Sure there's some nonsense in there from time to time, but on the whole they're pretty informative and done in a good way (IMO).
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I like them both :D
 
snerkler said:
Also, am I the only one that seems to like the Northrups and Jared Polin's videos? Sure there's some nonsense in there from time to time, but on the whole they're pretty informative and done in a good way (IMO).
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Nope, I quite like them too. Certainly better than that "Angry Photographer" tw@t.
 
snerkler said:
Also, am I the only one that seems to like the Northrups and Jared Polin's videos? Sure there's some nonsense in there from time to time, but on the whole they're pretty informative and done in a good way (IMO).
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I have no problem with the Northrups tbh (apart from the sponsorship plugs but I guess they are needed to keep the channel going) however I have yet to make it more than about 20 seconds into one of Jared Polins videos. Saying that I watched this one all the way through and apart from the "pausing for effect" found it to be quite interesting (and much along my thoughts).
 
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Riz_Guru said:
I like them both [emoji1]
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I do too though they can both be a bit shamelessly click baity at times and I cringe every time JP shoehorns the ‘dot com’ onto the end of his intros but both channels are very professionally produced and very watchable.

Prefer the DPreview guys (former TCS) though. Often very amusing, light hearted and down to earth and non of the hysterical click bait video titles. Their annual summary shows used to be brilliant.
 
gad-westy said:
I do too though they can both be a bit shamelessly click baity at times and I cringe every time JP shoehorns the ‘dot com’ onto the end of his intros but both channels are very professionally produced and very watchable.

Prefer the DPreview guys (former TCS) though. Often very amusing, light hearted and down to earth and non of the hysterical click bait video titles. Their annual summary shows used to be brilliant.
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Yep the DPR (former TCS) guy is good to watch. Kai from digital rev can get a bit irritating at times though.
 
snerkler said:
Also, am I the only one that seems to like the Northrups and Jared Polin's videos? Sure there's some nonsense in there from time to time, but on the whole they're pretty informative and done in a good way (IMO).
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No, they have tonnes of followers, the Northrups have over 1M, I still can't stomach them or the other hairy plonker. Luckily there's a lot more to choose from besides.
 
snerkler said:
Yep the DPR (former TCS) guy is good to watch. Kai from digital rev can get a bit irritating at times though.
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I like Chris Niccolls, enjoyed his videos as the camera store and still enjoy them with DPReview. Not a fan of the Northrups, not keen on their presenting style, but their productions are usually professional .
 
I like the old TCS crew, now DPR but they seem to be continuing to do their videos in their own style. I think my problem with the Northrups is they come across more like Tv breakfast show presenters. And I hate breakfast shows.
 
Mr Badger said:
So what happened then? We appear to have a few seconds/minutes of footage then it breaks down. Doesn't the whole card usually corrupt if it goes bad? Was this therefore caused by some sort of camera malfunction in that case? If so, how would having 2 cards have helped there? Was it a dud batch of cards? In which case the likelihood is that they'd have had two of the same batch in the camera while filming that video.

Sometimes 2 cards aren't going to help. Should a camera like that have 2 card slots? Well, that's a whole different question.
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I have had all sorts of things go wrong with my 64GB SD card due to card reader.

I had a few individual files corrupted.
After that the whole card was unreadable.

Now all fine after formatting and not using that reader. It's already done maybe 100GB of stills since.

In my case it was card - reader combination, so maybe in this case thats camera - card combination that is incompatible.

Also you have to consider that at some point before the failure they have swapped cards or downloaded the data, or maybe even managed to recover the first part using specialist software.
 
And once again I would not want to use that 1 card camera for any serious paying job.

In my example I couldn't download the files from SD card, but I was saved by CF backup card.

Another DIFFERENT example was a failure on my own part to properly assess files before liberally culling most of them. And of course I had formatted CF card right away, but left the bigger SD card alone. Of course I only had to re-import from SD while otherwise it would be missing a few key bits in the final delivery.

All of that happens once in a while, and it only really matters if your paycheque depends on it.
 
snerkler said:
Ok so I've not followed all the posts but is it definitely a card failure and not that the file's not been written right in the first place? If it's the latter it wouldn't matter if it had 1, 2 or 10 card slots as they all would've had errors.

Also, am I the only one that seems to like the Northrups and Jared Polin's videos? Sure there's some nonsense in there from time to time, but on the whole they're pretty informative and done in a good way (IMO).
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I quite like them. I thought Jared was very fair on the R.
 
chuckles said:
I think most of you are missing the point!

The card couldn't have failed as the video is there for us all to see (prior to there being no record). Subsequently 2 or 3 more SD cards didn't record. To my mind that points to the recording/writing algorithms of the camera. In this case it wouldn't have written to any other slot either 2x, 3x etc.

How many of us have had three or more cards fail simultaneously?

What is not recorded for us in this dubious review is how Canon managed to fix it! (It is noted there was a Canon 'minder' with them) Did they have a continuous supply of SD cards. Is it a bit like having fuses fail and keep changing them until one holds?

There is a whole part to this story which is not being told! (Unless I've missed something)
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TN said one card failed, and that he lost three clips from it, video at 4:20.

That was not a new card (Lexar, pre-liquidation) so presumably it's been used before without problems, and he formatted it in the EOS-R. So far so good, but it would not be the first time that a new camera has had problems with certain cards at launch - presumably because it would be impossible to stress-test prototype cameras with every conceivable make, model, size and speed of all cards ever made - but it's always quickly fixed with firmware.

Who knows, but given all that it could simply be a new camera bug and dual-card slots may or may not have saved the day.
 
HoppyUK said:
TN said one card failed, and that he lost three clips from it, video at 4:20.

That was not a new card (Lexar, pre-liquidation) so presumably it's been used before without problems, and he formatted it in the EOS-R. So far so good, but it would not be the first time that a new camera has had problems with certain cards at launch - presumably because it would be impossible to stress-test prototype cameras with every conceivable make, model, size and speed of all cards ever made - but it's always quickly fixed with firmware.
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There are one or two Lexar cards in the market even though that company left the market, ;) :eek: so I would imagine it was high on lists of cards to test alongside Sandisk for Canon. It may have been the card, it may have been the camera, it may have been the combination of the two together, time will tell when real people put all kinds of different cards into them in the real world. ;)

Any problems, if there are any, should quickly come to light. If there are problems, it will be very interesting to see how quickly Canon would acknowledge a problem and react to fix it. If they could. ;) Time will tell, and I hope there are no major problems btw.

HoppyUK said:
Who knows, but given all that it could simply be a new camera bug and dual-card slots may or may not have saved the day.
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But it may have, and by only having one card slot no one will ever know. Better to have the extra slot option and choose not to use it than not have the option and something like this can happen. ;) You and others will choose to disagree, but I would rather have more options and features than less. :)
 
Radiohead said:
He says in the video at 4m34s. 2 or 3 clips didn't record. All cards run NAND memory. They also employ controllers for error checking and wear levelling. Sometime the controller fails (in which case the card is gone) and sometime some of the NAND cells fail. That sounds like what happened here. It's NOT a camera fault. So having a second card would mitigate against that unless that card was also faulty (hence the use of the word mitigate).

The linguistic gymnastics being employed here to somehow let Canon off the hook for this s***ty and deliberate decision are hilarious.
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The controller failing is the usual problem, but it's not the end of the day. The data is still intact, it just can't be accessed, but recovery software gets around the controller and all is well. That's why data recovery is usually so successful. It even works when images have been deleted and a card reformatted - the data is still there 100% (unless it's been over-written by shooting more images).

TN doesn't say whether he tried recovery software to retrieve the lost clips (eg Recuva, which is free, dead easy, and takes just a few minutes). On the other hand, the whole point of his vlog would have been lost if the images were actually there after all... ;)
 
redhed17 said:
<snip>

But it may have, and by only having one card slot no one will ever know. Better to have the extra slot option and choose not to use it than not have the option and something like this can happen. ;) You and others will choose to disagree, but I would rather have more options and features than less. :)
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Actually, I don't disagree (even though I'm not that fussed personally). I think Canon made a serious and unnecessary mistake, but they did it deliberately to make a positioning statement re the new mirrorless EOS-R and their higher spec DSLRs, ditto Nikon Zeds.

What Canon (and Nikon) didn't fully appreciate was how a very vocal minority of wedding photographers and vloggers would react (again and again!). If any good comes from this, it could be that in future we'll not only get two card slots, but they'll also be to the same speed/spec.
 
HoppyUK said:
Actually, I don't disagree (even though I'm not that fussed personally). I think Canon made a serious and unnecessary mistake, but they did it deliberately to make a positioning statement re the new mirrorless EOS-R and their higher spec DSLRs, ditto Nikon Zeds.

What Canon (and Nikon) didn't fully appreciate was how a very vocal minority of wedding photographers and vloggers would react (again and again!). If any good comes from this, it could be that in future we'll not only get two card slots, but they'll also be to the same speed/spec.
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I don’t understand Canon’s decision for one slot but Nikon are saying that they don’t have room for two XQD slots. This would make sense barring two things. Firstly the camera was built from a blank page so just make the camera a bit bigger, the EOS R is that little bit bigger than the Zeds and maybe making the Zeds the same size would allow 2 XQD slots. The second thing is why not an XQD slot and SD slot as that wouldn’t need as much space. Apparently their response was that it would slow them down as the XQD card is faster. OK, so what about the D500 and D850 that both have one XQD and one SD? Can’t help but feel like they come out with some bs sometimes :rolleyes:
 
Cagey75 said:
I like the old TCS crew, now DPR but they seem to be continuing to do their videos in their own style. I think my problem with the Northrups is they come across more like Tv breakfast show presenters. And I hate breakfast shows.
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Turn the volume all the way down and cover right side of screen :D
 
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Why do people say computer files should be backed up at least once if not twice,then the same people say camera files are ok with out backing up in camera
 
Quite like this presenter, makes a change from ranting lunatics, always comes across as a pleasant well educated bloke.
Think his missus could get a bit more outspoken if left to her own devices, but probably realises that would ruin the concept.

Can't see why they wouldn't include a second card slot, many of those in the know say its a good idea so it probably is.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Quite like this presenter, makes a change from ranting lunatics, always comes across as a pleasant well educated bloke.
Think his missus could get a bit more outspoken if left to her own devices, but probably realises that would ruin the concept.

Can't see why they wouldn't include a second card slot, many of those in the know say its a good idea so it probably is.
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I watched a video by them a week or so ago and Chelsea Northrup mentioned that she didn't want to be on camera when it all started but has slowly got more confident. I think they work well together, which you would hope for seeing as they are married. ;)
 
Of them all….in a quick summary.

Kai W - for the lolz, not very scientific but entertaining.
The bloke who used to be on The Camera Store now on DPreview - actually one of my favourite.
Northorps - I like them, I even find their tutorials useful if you have the camera. I watched it to customise my A73 (using their A7R3 video)
Jarod - Marmite from day to day. I don’t like how he keep blowing his own trumpet on how good he is.

Then there are a bunch of Sony or Fuji centric users that only review their line of cameras, take these with a pinch of salt really.
 
I'm speaking generally here, but do any others think that quite a few internet reviews and tutorials are far longer than they need to be, with people waffling on about random and tenuously connected stuff instead of getting to the point? I'll say one thing for Kai's reviews, he does generally stick to the point and any 'fill' is usually quite pleasing and watchable (and/or amusing) cinematography overdubbed with some reasonably likeable music, not a load of waffle about "do you remember when we did that shoot and I used a so and so, and such and such happened, and he said, then you said, then I said... etc'. I think some reviews and tutorials end up feeling more like a TV shopping channel, to the extent where I'm thinking 'Just get on with it'! :banghead:
 
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