Current rip off prices of PRO DSLR's!!!

TommyGun said:
How can these manufacturer's justify such silly prices and why are you silly photographers willing to pay these stupid prices ????
......

So what is the solution you ask ???
Stop buying these cameras at extortionate prices and stick with whatever camera you have until the manufacturers are forced to reduce their prices.
It is all about supply and demand ...as long as punters are willing to pay these crazy prices then the manufacturer's will continue to rip us off.

So wait don't buy that next camera that you have on your wishlist and if we all do the same then the manufacturer's will have no option but to reduce these silly prices. :nono:
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I sincerely empathize with your frustrations here, the cost of gear is a very serious consideration, kitting yourself up to suit and meet requirements takes a fair amount of thought.
I'm not trying to justify the price tags on anything in particular here either:

BUT

It seems like your only considering this from a single perspective in all honesty Tommy.

If anyone who relied on tools as well as their skill to provide them a living, actually followed your 'advice' = they'd be a moron. ;)
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Especially when there has been no mention of brown sauce! :nono:
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Are you mad man?!?!?! Lee and Perrins on cheese on toast.. everyone knows that ;)

Oh and re the original post, D3 = incredibly good value for what it offers me. The argument is only relevant when talking about consumer level cameras and tight budgets for what are effectively playthings, but you agree they are quite reasonably priced.
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Especially when there has been no mention of brown sauce! :nono:
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This is getting out of hand already. Try to keep on topic Thomas :)

But in the concept of cheese on toast, I guess a dedicated accessory sauce is probably a useful feature.

But not with beans. Obviously.
 
TheBionicDan said:
Are you mad man?!?!?! Lee and Perrins on cheese on toast.. everyone knows that ;)
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I'm a bi-Perrins/brown sauce kinda chap, I'll have either or! :lol:

HoppyUK said:
This is getting out of hand already.

But in the concept of cheese on toast, I guess a dedicated accessory sauce is probably a useful feature.

But not with beans. Obviously.
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Oooo, I love to mix brown sauce with my beans (baked beans that is), I've done so since birth I think :D
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
I'm a bi-Perrins/brown sauce kinda chap, I'll have either or! :lol:

Oooo, I love to mix brown sauce with my beans (baked beans that is), I've done so since birth I think :D
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Apolgies Thomas. You are excused.

Cheddar is probably hard to come by in Helsinki. Explains everything. Or do you get food parcels?
 
HoppyUK said:
Apolgies Thomas. You are excused.

Cheddar is probably hard to come by in Helsinki. Explains everything. Or do you get food parcels?
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Your right on the money cheese there mate!
Good cheddar is very hard to come by unless you don't mind paying an arm and a leg at Stockmann for imports.
Thankfully Mam & Pap have just visited and brought a supply of extra mature :D
 
English mustard on cheese on toast, never mind your mild brown sauce.
 
A private company without 'greed' goes by another name.....it's called a charity.
 
In the heady days of the eighties I discovered the joys of 'oops on cheese and toast. Now it's oops for me every time. A bit of cheshire has been dabbled with, but can be a bit tangy.

How much cheese on toast could you buy instead of a decent SLR - now that's a question :thumbs:

Graham
 
mid_gen said:
A private company without 'greed' goes by another name.....it's called a charity.
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Heh. This is true in a monopoly - but in a working free market any greed should be tempered by the existence of an alternative supply.

It is also worth remembering that companies do not exist to make or supply goods - they exist to make money. If they cease to do this they will go bust in short order.
 
Arkady said:
It is a scientific fact that beans-on-cheese-on-toast is a perfectly-balanced meal, containing everything a hungry student needs to survive, apart from alcohol...
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Sorry Arkady, but this is just adding to the pile of misinformation which this thread already contains. :cuckoo:

The four essential food groups are of course fat, sugar, caffeine and alcohol. Perfectly balanced nutrition therefore requires consumption of Irish coffee.
 
Without reading the whole thread, I'll reply to the first few. They cost a fortune because the designers, testing and research that goes into them is huge, not due to the tooling costs of actually making them. Back in the day of normal SLRs you chopped a few lumps of metal up and saw how it worked, these days you need software designers, image processing experts, electronic hardware designers, electronics systems designers, mechanical design engineers, AND then to produce the tooling to make them, each of which will have its own designers and research. When thats done they'll need testing and refining, this takes time and time costs too. You're not just buying the materials shaped into something, you're paying for ongoing research, testing, teams of designers working on the next camera etc, and total sales of top end cameras is going to be relatively small in the scheme of things.
 
coyoteboy said:
Without reading the whole thread, I'll reply to the first few. They cost a fortune because the designers, testing and research that goes into them is huge, not due to the tooling costs of actually making them. Back in the day of normal SLRs you chopped a few lumps of metal up and saw how it worked, these days you need software designers, image processing experts, electronic hardware designers, electronics systems designers, mechanical design engineers, AND then to produce the tooling to make them, each of which will have its own designers and research. When thats done they'll need testing and refining, this takes time and time costs too. You're not just buying the materials shaped into something, you're paying for ongoing research, testing, teams of designers working on the next camera etc, and total sales of top end cameras is going to be relatively small in the scheme of things.
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Lurching back on topic (which is a bit of a shame) look at the price of Leicas. They have all the costs, none of the resources, and no scale manufacturing benefits.

No wonder they make rubbish cameras for ridiculous money. Excepting the ones Panasonic make for them, who have all of the above advantages.
 
One day they will produce a camera that houses a human eye linked by wires from the sensor before further enhancing the image.
The cost will be.....eye watering !
 
Voyager said:
Heh. This is true in a monopoly - but in a working free market any greed should be tempered by the existence of an alternative supply.

It is also worth remembering that companies do not exist to make or supply goods - they exist to make money. If they cease to do this they will go bust in short order.
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Why isn't there an alternate supply? If these camera manufacturers are making such colossal 'greedy' margins, then why doesn't a competitor just slash their prices for the same quality goods?
 
I have not read all the thread so apologies if this has been said before but I don't mind paying top money for top equipment.

I bought my first 1dmk3 when they first came out, thankfully it didn't have the af issues. It has been used almost daily since in wind, rain, high humidity and freezing temperatures and has never missed a beat. I always believe that you get what you pay for and if I need something reliable, that won't let me down when I need it most then I will pay for it - simples!
 
mid_gen said:
Why isn't there an alternate supply?
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There is!

Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, blah, blah blah ad infinitum.
mid_gen said:
If these camera manufacturers are making such colossal 'greedy' margins, then why doesn't a competitor just slash their prices for the same quality goods?
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Er, because they are not 'greedy' and 'ripping off' customers after all? :cuckoo:
 
Heinz beans on Cathedral City or Pilgrim's Choice Cheddar on Hovis granary...

Optional garnish supplied by Heinz Tommy sauce - Brown sauce - even HP - is wrong - that should only be used for sausage sarnies - ketchup should go on bacon sarnies (white bread or bap, never brown/wholemeal etc)...

Mug of tea, stewed, with milk and sugar (milk + 2 sugars = NATO Standard by the way...)...


Anything else is un-English and smacks of subversion and sedition...if you don't like it, take your hippy, thong-wearing, pierced taste-buds to the airport and live elsewhere...lol
 
Arkady said:
Heinz beans on Cathedral City or Pilgrim's Choice Cheddar on Hovis granary...

Optional garnish supplied by Heinz Tommy sauce - Brown sauce - even HP - is wrong - that should only be used for sausage sarnies - ketchup should go on bacon sarnies (white bread or bap, never brown/wholemeal etc)...

Mug of tea, stewed, with milk and sugar (milk + 2 sugars = NATO Standard by the way...)...


Anything else is un-English and smacks of subversion and sedition...if you don't like it, take your hippy, thong-wearing, pierced taste-buds to the airport and live elsewhere...lol
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:lol: Although your gravely mistaken regarding the addition of sauce to anything and everything.
That's is distinctly British :lol:
 
Voyager said:
There is!

Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, blah, blah blah ad infinitum.

Er, because they are not 'greedy' and 'ripping off' customers after all? :cuckoo:
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I should have learned by now that sarcasm doesn't work on t'internet....that was exactly my point :nuts:
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
:lol: Although your gravely mistaken regarding the addition of sauce to anything and everything.
That's is distinctly British :lol:
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English...:cool:

It's like calling a Frenchman a 'European'...technically correct but a bit insulting still...

The Scots deep-fry everything, including cigarettes...still moan about being subjected to English rule...
The Irish make the best fried breakfasts in the world (Ulster Fry) and don't live in Ireland - the Irish people themselves are that country's best export.
The Welsh...lost the war against the English in 1283 and still moan about it...

The English: should stick to what we're good at - interfering in other countries' affairs by rule of conquest...stop being PC about it and take it back by force of arms I say.

If you're going to invade a country, you might as well get to keep it.
 
Arkady said:
English...:cool:

It's like calling a Frenchman a 'European'...technically correct but a bit insulting still....
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I dunno about that Rob :thinking:

What really makes me laugh, because it's unarguable, is the introduction of a new ban in many warm, cosy and welcoming establishments all around Europe.

'Strictly no Stag parties'.

Says it all.
 
My 1ds Mk3 cost me £3900 (ex VAT) which works out over it's life, approx 3 years, £25 per week. The return on the investment works very well in my favour so I'm happy :)

The original 1ds cost me £4700 (ex VAT) in 2003 so I'm happy the way prices are going. (Still waiting for a 8fps full frame please Canon ;))
My main complaint about pricing is why is the 1ds holds such a premium over the 1d??? They are virtually the same except for a few extra mega pixels...
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
I dunno about that Rob :thinking:

What really makes me laugh, because it's unarguable, is the introduction of a new ban in many warm, cosy and welcoming establishments all around Europe.

'Strictly no Stag parties'.

Says it all.
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And quite right too - what is it about Stag Parties that makes (mostly the English, it has to be said) think they can behave boorishly with no thought or regard for the locals?
I see 'we've' been banned from Riga as well now - lol
 
HoppyUK said:
Lurching back on topic (which is a bit of a shame) look at the price of Leicas. They have all the costs, none of the resources, and no scale manufacturing benefits.

No wonder they make rubbish cameras for ridiculous money. Excepting the ones Panasonic make for them, who have all of the above advantages.
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Not that you are biased at all there Hoppy?

Leica make blooming good cameras thank you very much. I love my D-lux and I do believe Hacker has also just aquired one since Ven is getting.......yes, a new Leica.

Lots of happy owners would say otherwise.

have you got one? :thinking:
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
I dunno about that Rob :thinking:

What really makes me laugh, because it's unarguable, is the introduction of a new ban in many warm, cosy and welcoming establishments all around Europe.

'Strictly no Stag parties'.

Says it all.
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A source of shame for many of us Tomas, believe me....
 
AliB said:
Not that you are biased at all there Hoppy?

Leica make blooming good cameras thank you very much. I love my D-lux and I do believe Hacker has also just aquired one since Ven is getting.......yes, a new Leica.

Lots of happy owners would say otherwise.

have you got one? :thinking:
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I love my M6, but barely ever use it now...pick it up and it screams 'quality' back at you...
I bought it second-hand ten years ago for £980 - it's still worth about £900...
 
AliB said:
Not that you are biased at all there Hoppy?

Leica make blooming good cameras thank you very much. I love my D-lux and I do believe Hacker has also just aquired one since Ven is getting.......yes, a new Leica.

Lots of happy owners would say otherwise.

have you got one? :thinking:
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Ali, your lovely little Leica is a Panasonic. I strongly suspect that Leica's sole input was signing off the branding agreement. I find it very hard to believe they even designed the lens (or any of the other Leica-branded Lumix lenses) and they certainly didn't create the software that makes it look so good. Panasonic keep very quiet about what really gives the image quality a final polish, and it's not made of glass. It would shatter the illusion ;)

The last great Leica was the M6, and the digital M8 is just a shambolic mess. Leica SLRs have always been low spec and high priced, but they're lenses always have been, and still are outstanding - the ones they actually design that is, as opposed to over-branded compacts.

Leica lost the plot a very long time ago, in fact they've had the skids under them ever since 1959 when the Nikon F appeared and have never got on the SLR bandwagon which they've always regarded as something of a fad. I have to say I find it all rather sad and a bit annoying that Leica have been blind to the development of technology and let so many opportunities slip through their fingers. It's too late now; they just postulate and come out with ridiculous ideas like the medium format S2 at silly money, attempting to fill a niche that doesn't exist. IMHO, they should have switched to making fine quality high end mechanical watches, for which there still appears to a strong demand. I would much prefer a Leica watch to a Rolex or IWC.

Sorry to rant. I don't know why Leica upsets me. I really want to like them and depsite my better judgement, I too would love a D-Lux4 - it's the best camera to carry that great name in very many years and I think is a worthy spiritual successor for modern day Cartier Bressons :)
 
Thanks Hoppy, I had a feeling there was something under your skin there.

Feel better? :)
 
Arkady said:
Heinz beans on Cathedral City or Pilgrim's Choice Cheddar on Hovis granary...

Optional garnish supplied by Heinz Tommy sauce - Brown sauce - even HP - is wrong - that should only be used for sausage sarnies - ketchup should go on bacon sarnies (white bread or bap, never brown/wholemeal etc)...

Mug of tea, stewed, with milk and sugar (milk + 2 sugars = NATO Standard by the way...)...


Anything else is un-English and smacks of subversion and sedition...if you don't like it, take your hippy, thong-wearing, pierced taste-buds to the airport and live elsewhere...lol
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^^^ Excellent post. Stewed tea :thumbs:

You mention another great invention. The sausage. And I have to tell you that I currently have two of the finest sausages ever created in the fridge. I will try to resist them until about 3am.

They are Porkinson's Bangers, the splendid creation of Norman Parkinson the celebrated Royal and fashion photographer. He invented them while living in the West Indies, where British bangers were hard to come by. They became a smash hit with visitors longing for Blighty, including Royalty. They even served them on Concorde. http://www.porkinson.co.uk/

Without meaning to name drop, he introduced me to them personally many years ago before they were commercially available. I have never looked back. Now you can get them in Tescos. We should all eat them in homage to a great snapper :) :D
 
AliB said:
Thanks Hoppy, I had a feeling there was something under your skin there.

Feel better? :)
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Gonna get me a sosij... :D
 
TommyGun said:
I remember the days when the top professional film camera by Nikon was the F5 and cost around £1400. The F100 being a semi-pro camera was around £850. These were I feel respectable prices but with the coming of the digital era prices of DSLR's have went sky high. Now the F100 equivalent the D700 is around £1800 and the F5 equivalent the D3 is around £3300. The D3x is priced around £4500 and the Canon top end camera is even higher. Why are we being 'RIPPED OFF' like this ????
My personal opinion is that the D700 should be around the £1000-£1200 mark and the D3 around the £1800-£2000 mark.
How can these manufacturer's justify such silly prices and why are you silly photographers willing to pay these stupid prices ????
Ok so it is new technology .....SO WHAT!!!!
I believe the manufacturers are being greedy and ripping us off
So what is the solution you ask ???
Stop buying these cameras at extortionate prices and stick with whatever camera you have until the manufacturers are forced to reduce their prices.
It is all about supply and demand ...as long as punters are willing to pay these crazy prices then the manufacturer's will continue to rip us off.

So wait don't buy that next camera that you have on your wishlist and if we all do the same then the manufacturer's will have no option but to reduce these silly prices.

:nono:
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For me, a new D700 is just about worth the price it was at last December which was £1,500 and IMHO it is not worth one damn penny more!

Greedy Nikon's forward currency speculation philosophy seems to be "If we win, nice, if we lose, we will increase our prices" :nono:

Short-term flawed strategic thinking by in-house beancounters is what drives lifelong customers over to alternative manufacturers!
 
Voyager said:
In the same way the Bentley is a VW?
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LOL yes. In the same way that a Bugatti is also a VW.

But I don't think they would get away with sticking a Bentley or Bugatti badge on a Golf and charging a hundred grand for it.

Which is what Leica have done with the D-Lux4.
 
KavKav said:
For me, a new D700 is just about worth the price it was at last December which was £1,500 and IMHO it is not worth one damn penny more!

Greedy Nikon's forward currency speculation philosophy seems to be "If we win, nice, if we lose, we will increase our prices" :nono:

Short-term flawed strategic thinking by in-house beancounters is what drives lifelong customers over to alternative manufacturers!
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hahah...an item...any item... is worth exactly what people are prepared to pay for it...not one penny more...

Since people are prepared to pay Canon and Nikon's prices, how bloody stupid would they have to be to drop those prices any lower?

I just have to look at all the Pro Togs I bump shoulders with to see how many of them switch from one marque to another depending soley on who's is the best tool for the job, regardless of cost...
At the moment, with the introduction of the D3 and D3x, Nikon have taken the lead again with the press-pack and are wooing Togs over with offers to part-ex their canon kit - which gets destroyed, so that it doesn't end up on the 2nd hand market...
Regardless of cost, all that technology eventually makes it down to amateur kit, which is good for all of us...
 
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