Critique from Inexperienced Togs!!

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KIPAX said:
Just because someone cant take a good picture themselves. doesnt mean they cant see a good picture. I know a good curry when I eat one.. but I wouldn't touch anything I made.
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Beat me to it...:razz:

I'd agree and although sometimes (sad I know) I review photographs of those that give negative and positive comments on my photographs and, mainly for negative comments, say, "How can they give negative comments...." I've started to read comments and think subjectivly (sometimes hard for me) and (very) often I'll agree with the comments.

Cheers.
 
What a load of old cods.......
1. I've been taking pictures for in excess of 40 years, but that doesn't make me a good photographer.
2. A person may not own a camera and still know a good photograph when they see one.
3. I don't know anything about art but I know what I like.
4. Stop patronising people.

If someone says they don't like your picture, ask them why. And if they don't answer, **** them. This may come as a shock. This is the internet. Wazzucks happen, and usually manifest themselves as an expert in everything.
 
String said:
This may come as a shock. This is the internet. Wazzucks happen, and usually manifest themselves as an expert in everything.
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:lol:
 
Reminds me a bit of a Monty Python sketch.


Oh what i would give, to receive a bit of negative crit..........

:lol:
 
I belong to another similar forum and have posted quite a lot of images in the past, though not so many recently. On that forum people can give your photos a vote, which is equivalent to a thumbs up.

It is really interesting to see what and whose photos get lots of clicks. Over the years it has become clear to me that there are 'click cliques', almost a 'you click me and I'll click yours' but then I realized that that was over simplistic. inevitably you find yourself gravitating to certain photographers because you like their style. Also if you want clicks you need to think carefully when you post. Best time is early to mid evening because that's when most people are on line.

What I'm trying to say is that forums (or should that be fora or fori, my Latin is a bit rusty) are a relatively anonymous, self selecting group of people. You just have to accept the nature of the beast. Read what people say if you want to know how your photos are received. If someone posts what you feel is a crass comment well ignore it. You can start checking how well qualified you think someone might be to make a comment but in my opinion, that way lies madness.
 
Read the Post fully before replying.

Is that too difficult?? I am not stating beginners comments and critique is not important.

And for those who say no photography is a bad one blah blah blah. That's rubbish!!
 
Since when did someones ability as a photographer define their ability as a critic? Most art critics are not great painters as far as I'm aware, read the fashion colums of a glossy magazine the people writing these are not great designers they are people with an opinion and a bit of specialist knowledge.

Moving outside the art world take the world of food/wine, most of the worlds most well know and respected food and wine critics are not great chefs or famous wine makers they are simply people that have an opinion on the subject combined with a bit of knowledge.

Everyone has an opinion on a photograph and to say that some peoples opinions are less valued because they are less able with a camera is nonsense. I would muh rather recieve good honest constructive criticism from someone who doesn't even own an SLR than a 'Great Shot!!!111!!' from a vastly experienced professional.

Take all feedback with a pinch of salt, remember everyone sees a picture differently and what maybe the perfect composition/exposure for you won't be to everyones cup of tea.

If you disagree with what someone says don't dismiss it, engage with them find out what made them say it explain why you disagree and maybe you will both learn something from the experience.
 
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Critiquing photographs is a great learning tool for someone looking to improve their own photography. Learning to look for the elements of composition and exposure that you think work and what doesn't is really valuable.

The nature of the internet is that you get all sorts, from beginner to expert, from helpful to destructive, from friendly to obnoxious and everything in between.
 
If you dont want to read a persons opinion then I dint think you should post Images, as what is good to one person is bad to another. To say people images are rubbish is just rude and unhelpfull the only way people get better is with help from others and I thought thats what forums like this was all about. Oh and remeber you had to start at the begining too
 
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Oxford_Matt said:
Read the Post fully before replying.

Is that too difficult?? I am not stating beginners comments and critique is not important.
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Sorry, but I did read the thread and I did read your OP in full before posting. It does seem that's exactly what you're saying.

Setting aside the issue of whether the title of the thread accurately reflects the content of you initial post, let's examine what you said there, with some emphasis added.

Oxford_Matt said:
Just wondered how you guys feel about it?

I have seen it quite often and had it happen to myself where a Experienced Photographer will post a image, then it gets genuine comments, but then you get one Photographer who comments and tries to pick at it, then you check there images posted and they are dreadful and have no idea!!

Sorry but it really winds me up!!

It's nice to get opinions from all, but when they try getting technical it makes me bite.

Rant over ;)

Rant over
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So, you state that some comments are genuine, then you set up an opposition ["but then"] which clearly implies that some other comments are not genuine, and that these wind you up. I don't know about you, but something that is not genuine is fake or insincere. Things that are fake or insincere are usually regarded as worthless or unimportant.*

Looking further down the thread, mostly you're just reiterating the argument in the OP in slightly different form, that you are talking only about a specific group of individuals, or suggesting people re-read your OP.

Where we do get some clarification, it contradicts what you said in the first post

Oxford_Matt said:
I agree with all your comments.

Unfortunately this has gone off track.
Everyone is for some reason posting replying to the title. Rather than reading the whole thread.

I don't mind comments from inexperienced togs. It's the ones that just put comments like "Nah Don't like it" or "Not for me" etc on numerous images.


That's not constructive and to me looks like they are just trying to boost their post count.
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Now, forgive me if my understanding of English is rather poor, but comments like Nah Don't like it" or "Not for me" don't immediately strike me as 'getting technical' in relation to photographic criticism.

If you are complaining about people making comments on your photographs merely to boost their post count, then it's a rather different proposition to the scenario described in the OP. If it is that which bothers you, then I refer you to my previous post where I ask if you would be disturbed by positive comments by people you would characterise as 'dreadful' photographers.

So, I'm still left somewhat confused about what exactly it is that you're complaining about.

edit:

* unless you are a devotee of the theory of post-modernism in art. :D
 
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Oxford_Matt said:
I agree with all your comments.

Unfortunately this has gone off track.
Everyone is for some reason posting replying to the title. Rather than reading the whole thread.

I don't mind comments from inexperienced togs. It's the ones that just put comments like "Nah Don't like it" or "Not for me" etc on numerous images.

That's not constructive and to me looks like they are just trying to boost their post count.
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Rather than get upset over the "nah" comments, have you tried replying and asking them if they could help you by elaborating on their comment?

This helps you and also gets the OP to consider how they should reply
 
Oxford_Matt said:
Great words.

But yet again commenting on the title.

I understand that inexperienced togs feedback is sometimes useful, also comments from non togs is also great as it's them that will be buying your work.

However I was talking about a few who seem to only give negative criticism on numerous occasions. When they need to spend more time looking at their own work.
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You've had some really good replies in this thread. Any artform comprises technical elements, artistic elements, and subjective elements. When asking for critique on a public forum, you are likely inviting comment on the latter, ie whether the viewer 'likes' the shot or not. If you're more interested in technical appraisal and feedback as to how your understanding of light, composition, posing etc can be improved, I'd recommend that you join a photographic society and gain critique in that way. I sometimes teach learner photographers and I sometimes judge local competitions - I cannot make my judgements on how much a shot appeals to me because I have to assess how the shot scores against a number of criteria. In other words when asking for critique you might be better off being specific as to what you're after - gut reaction, or specifically ask for feedback from pros on technicalities etc. That may deter the 'armchair' viewer from offering what you feel are inappropriate remarks. If it's any consolation harsh critique gets even harsher the higher you look - I often enter pro competitions and like most I sometimes feel disappointed by the feedback I get - but as I said that's how it goes when you engage in an artistic pursuit, however 'good or experienced' you may be.
 
Oxford_Matt said:
I don't mind comments from inexperienced togs. It's the ones that just put comments like "Nah Don't like it" or "Not for me" etc on numerous images.
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Surely, the reason why that's all the constructive criticism they can give is precisely because they are inexperienced? :shrug:

If you put an image up for discussion, people who want to pass an opinion on it are - as you have given them the opportunity to, regardless of 40 years in the business or if they started yesterday. You may not particularly like their photos, but they didn't put theirs up for discussion did they?
 
Lol you post a picture you take the comments, if someone says "nah, I dont like it" take it on the chin and move on. Don't throw your toys out of the pram and start slating their pictures, unless of course they have posted them for critique.

I have sold a few pictures, nothing major and I have had people look at certain ones I have taken and they have simply said "nah not for me" or "I dont like it". I am pretty sure I didn't ask to see their pictures or ask them for a full explanation as to why my photos offended them.

Also correcting spelling/ grammar on someone elses post, really get a life or go find a spelling and grammar forum.
 
I'm sure they do - thats why inexperienced togs have posted their own stuff up so that more experienced togs can critique them.

I'm by no means experienced but i do think i have the right to give my opinion on a picture no matter how god-awful mine is. If there is a valid point in my critique of a picture then i'm sure you'll consider it. IF i'm talking crap then i'm talking crap - disregard it.

you should take each post as related to the topic not back-checking.

*goes off to delete all his pictures from TP*
 
Musicman said:
Sorry, but I did read the thread and I did read your OP in full before posting. It does seem that's exactly what you're saying.

Setting aside the issue of whether the title of the thread accurately reflects the content of you initial post, let's examine what you said there, with some emphasis added.



So, you state that some comments are genuine, then you set up an opposition ["but then"] which clearly implies that some other comments are not genuine, and that these wind you up. I don't know about you, but something that is not genuine is fake or insincere. Things that are fake or insincere are usually regarded as worthless or unimportant.*

Looking further down the thread, mostly you're just reiterating the argument in the OP in slightly different form, that you are talking only about a specific group of individuals, or suggesting people re-read your OP.

Where we do get some clarification, it contradicts what you said in the first post



Now, forgive me if my understanding of English is rather poor, but comments like Nah Don't like it" or "Not for me" don't immediately strike me as 'getting technical' in relation to photographic criticism.

If you are complaining about people making comments on your photographs merely to boost their post count, then it's a rather different proposition to the scenario described in the OP. If it is that which bothers you, then I refer you to my previous post where I ask if you would be disturbed by positive comments by people you would characterise as 'dreadful' photographers.

So, I'm still left somewhat confused about what exactly it is that you're complaining about.

edit:

* unless you are a devotee of the theory of post-modernism in art. :D
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:thumbs:
 
Unfortunately it is comments and attitudes like the OP's that spoil what is a very good forum.

To the OP, if you choose to post images then you have to expect criticism from people irrespective of their abilities. I have seen how you react in other threads and, to be brutally honest, you come across very poorly with your barbed comments. Fortunately there is a very easy way to solve your dilemma. Don't post images if you don't like the subsequent comments. Simples.

Andy
 
Oxford_Matt said:
Just wondered how you guys feel about it?

I have seen it quite often and had it happen to myself where a Experienced Photographer will post a image, then it gets genuine comments, but then you get one Photographer who comments and tries to pick at it, then you check there images posted and they are dreadful and have no idea!!

Sorry but it really winds me up!!

It's nice to get opinions from all, but when they try getting technical it makes me bite.

Rant over ;)

Rant over
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Life's too short, If you don't like what they are saying (for whatever reason) just ignore it - no point in getting het up about it.
Beauty about this forum is the ability to put people on an 'ignore' list.

If you think you may not like the answer, don't ask the question.....
 
Virtuair said:
Well I am not a fan of the posture in the reflection... But that's me...
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Oxford_Matt said:
Constructive Criticism might be helpful.

Just checked out your images posted. :shake:
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I think that really says it all - what you appear to be looking for is an ego massage and if you don't get it you go on the offensive, you could have asked the poster what it was he didn't like about the areas he highlighted and how he would have improved on them, without reducing yourself to childish comments.

There you go, that's some constructive criticism for you ;)
 
This thread did not go as expected.
 
Looked at the title and read the replies.

Sorry but this isn't for me. Not keen at all.
lol.
 
This is an interesting thread, but I think many different elements have been mixed up.

a) The validity of criticism from someone with very little or non extensive experience.
b) The validity of TECHNICAL criticism from someone that has no technical expertise themselves.
c) The validity of non constructive criticism, purely subjective "not for me" from any forum member.
d) The attitude of the op.

Regarding a), personally I agree that inexperienced/untalented photographers can give as good/as bad critique as experienced and talented photographer can give. They are all under the same threat of letting their personal taste to get in the way of their judgement. Also, as pointed out being a talented critic does not equal being a talented photographer and vice versa. One of my best friends is a literary critic at Spain's top Cultural magazine, he knows how to write very well, to dissect and criticize novels even better just don't ask him to write a novel as he does not have the artistic and imagination element needed for that.

b) While I do think that ones ability or inability to create a technical perfect photo has little to do with ones ability to spot and articulate a technical criticism, I do believe that in a forum of pro, semi pro or enthusiast photographers like this one, the technical criticism of some one who masters the technical aspect weights more than one who doesn't.
Why? Simply because the one who can produce technically perfect photos can offer guidance on how to achieve them, and that is why many people participate in these forums.
Also, I would like to add that the technical aspect is not subjective. A photo that is not sharp will still not be sharp even though that is what the photographer wanted to capture. The same for exposure, WB... The point is that the photographer has to express their intentionality behind the unsharpness, off WB... Beauty and quality in a piece of art is subjective, the technical aspects (specially on a photo) are not.

c) The "not for me" comments are in my opinion more a reflexion of the poster than of the photo in question. Mean very little unless further elaborated on why that photo is "not for me", for instance "is not for me as I like more contrast", "is not for me as I like less moody photos"... A good critique is not necessarily a positive one, it is in the contents of it that is the proof of the pudding.

d) The attitude of the op comes across as very defensive and a bit aggressive even which is a bit sad as I think he had a point but he didn't put it across very well and was a tad aggressive with posters that were trying to make sense of what he was saying.
 
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Constructive criticism is always welcomed.

A quick one liner "Nah not for me" is not constructive or helpful. It's a lazy reply in order to boost posts so they can access certain areas of the site. Probably Glamour & nude or classified sections.

Check my other posts and don't judge me on a single quote. I also try to help others
Including some that have replied here.

I really am not bothered as a few that have commented on here are just jumping on the band wagon and are still convinced I don't like criticism other than positive ego stroking comments, which is not the case.

I also invite CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from Beginners, however if you don't Luke a picture but are not able to state why, don't reply simple!!

Some obviously like to write 500 word essays with the intention of trying to sound intelligent.

If my Title or content is not understood I apologise, however it my opinion.
 
That's not intended at you Paula, I agree with everything you have said.
I am being slightly defensive maybe, but as I stated it's just something that gets my back up.
 
that went well then. circular argument, so thread closed.
 
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