Creativity and depression

[Hammerhead64]

I have had to skip most of the posts ...... after working very hard for over 20 years I now appear to be on the credit crunch scrapheap ..... turfed out of my job through no fault of my own ....... a lot of comments that have been made I am starting to relate very closely too ....... I have to find a way out ..... I think my photography is starting to suffer I find it difficult to even pick up the camera ....thoughts of why bother creap into my head ...... better to just give up on trying to be good ...... I then revert back to what do I need to do to get out of this ..... let me pick up the camera ...... go out a try ... but the day is just as grey as my mood ..... just seems a viscious cycle ...... how will it end ..... what is my future ?????

 

[AndyB]

I would think not - it's an interesting point though

 

[dazzajl]

You get the photos and for a brief moment you're happy. Then its gone. What is the point in that?

I wonder how many other artists there are that have been this way?

The point old bean is that it drives you on to make images, or music, or to sculpt or whatever your particular outlet is. Sadly, whilst many great artists have been driven on by one form of depression or another, there are some tortured souls that can only respond with negativity, violence or complete self destruction.

The upside for you and it seems most of the others in this thread, that the outlook is sunnier, even in the darkest hour.

 

[a1ex2001]

Without hard evidence that its genetic I couldn't say.

The evidence says that genetics play a small part in it and even then they only predispose people to it, social and lifestyle issues and events play a much more significant role and given the increasing incidence of the problem then it is surmised that our modern lifestyle and social environment are not helping.

 

[AndyB]

So genetics is the primer and environment is the catalyst?

 

[Col_M]

I don't suffer from depression thankfully but I'm on Prothiaden for IBS and anxiety. It's allowed me to be able to get on the metro in the morning without getting myself into such a state that it made me worse in a vicious circle. I can 100% relate to people with depression in that something that affects the mind can't just be turned off.

As for depressed people being more creative, there definately seems to be some sort of link, the list of people that you can call a genius and who were also depressed is long. I don't know the reasons for it though.

 

[a1ex2001]

So genetics is the primer and environment is the catalyst?

Sort of, nobody really fully understands the genetics as it would seem to involve a complex set of genes rather than a single gene. the statistics say that if a close relation has had depression then you are upto 10% more likely to get depression. Like alot of mental health issues there is alot of smoke and mirrors and theory and treatment is changing all the time especially as far as medication is concerned. Not long ago drugs were considered the be all and end all in the field but that thinking has now been revised and we are leaning more towards the softer side of medical science, which can only be a good thing.

 

[walls]

I bet there are just as many people who aren't creative and suffer depression so I am not sure there is a direct link. Perhaps because it is more tolerated in the arts the connection is more obvious. I doubt for instance, if you suffered terribly from depression you'd advertise it if you were an airline pilot or a heart surgeon.

 

[petemc]

A good point walls. That aside I really am baffled. Where does this ability to see greatness in people and places come from while being heavily depressed and hating myself? They seem like complete opposites.

 

[AndyB]

Walls I think I aggree with you there. There have always been people who said if they weren't actors or comedians they'd be committed. I think it's probably true

 

[AndyB]

Pete perhaps it's because your creativity comes from within you but you're influences are external. You are looking for your own work to be equal to those you admire yet it probably is already that good and you cant see it so it gets you down.

Maybe you need to stop looking at other peoples photography for a while and look at yours as if it were someone elses

 

[Janice]

So genetics is the primer and environment is the catalyst?

I have a first cousin who is very mentally unstable... although very very intelligent indeed. The first thing they asked me at the hospital was has anyone in your family sufferered from mental health problems.

The tablets I am on make me so "mediocre" ie no ups & no downs that I just sit and look out the window and can't pick up the camera as there is no interest whatsoever and no reason to as far as I can see.

To Edinburgh Gary (about being/feeling different) I have always felt like that too and when a therapist asked me a question I replied "I want to be the same as everyone else"

"What is every other woman like then?" he replied.

"They go out and wear nice clothes and are all feminine and stuff" I said.

He pointed to the wall and said "Imagine there is a nice new dress hanging there and shoes and a bag... its all yours, free. What would you say?"

"I'd say its not me, not my style, I will stick to my jeans and shirt"

"So why did you say you wanted to be like other women, when you had the chance there and you didnt take it."

"Because I am different from them all."

"Is that a bad thing? People like you because you are different"

"I feel its wrong to be different and I want to hide away"

Well its seems Gary has sorted that out in his life, and I am going to try really really hard to make my difference count.... make it not that I'm different, but that I'm special.

 

[a1ex2001]

The tablets I am on make me so "mediocre" ie no ups & no downs that I just sit and look out the window and can't pick up the camera as there is no interest whatsoever and no reason to as far as I can see.

Do you feel that this is better than the ups and downs? Not trying to judge just remember medication is your choice if you don't think it is having a positive impact on your life get back down the doctors and tell them so, don't accept 'so so' it's not a solution.

 

[OneTen]

I'm just coming out of a bout of depression that has lasted a couple of years, I should come off the medication completely next week, so for me it's a real milestone. I spent eight years with depression at the end of my twenties / early thirties though it was only diagnosed within the final two years. I was hoping that was it and never thought I'd be there again.

Photography helps me no end, in fact I think I'd be lost without it.

 

[petemc]

Pete perhaps it's because your creativity comes from within you but you're influences are external. You are looking for your own work to be equal to those you admire yet it probably is already that good and you cant see it so it gets you down.

Maybe you need to stop looking at other peoples photography for a while and look at yours as if it were someone elses

Nah I really don't think thats it. I can just be depressed and yet create photos that people love. Don't get it.

I'm just coming out of a bout of depression that has lasted a couple of years, I should come off the medication completely next week, so for me it's a real milestone. I spent eight years with depression at the end of my twenties / early thirties though it was only diagnosed within the final two years. I was hoping that was it and never thought I'd be there again.

Photography helps me no end, in fact I think I'd be lost without it.

Thats great to hear

 

[dazzajl]

make it not that I'm different, but that I'm special.

Same thing janice in my book. In fact perhaps it would be clearer to say that I don't see how you can be special without being different.

To me, you seem very different.

 

[Merovingian]

does seem to occur quite a lot with talented people.

Can't believe nobody's mentioned that great artistic depressive VanGough!

Also surprising how a) how many people are sufferers and b) how frank people are in revealing so. This wouldn't have happed 25yrs ago.

 

[Janice]

Do you feel that this is better than the ups and downs? Not trying to judge just remember medication is your choice if you don't think it is having a positive impact on your life get back down the doctors and tell them so, don't accept 'so so' it's not a solution.

I have to see my mental health doc again in March. I will tell him I want small highs and lows instead of none! At least I might get creative again.

So many trial and errors on the medication over the past couple of years that it almost makes you just want to say "I will stick with this and have done with it".

I couldnt come off completely as at my worst I was all but ready to leave home and walk away from everything.. and I really dont want to feel like that again. :shake:

There are 2 drugs, one is for epilepsy which is the main one. If I take more I fall asleep all the time, not good while driving, and if I take less I get all twitchy and have lots of quick thoughts of past people and events and I feel bad.

No doubt something will sort itself out one day.

 

[AndyB]

How muich of the time are you in that state compared to the 'ups' ?

 

[Janice]

How muich of the time are you in that state compared to the 'ups' ?

Well Ive been on the tablets for about 2 years, and the nasty bits had not been that nasty, till lots of sudden stress brought it to a head. So since then... I havent really.

The Cyclothalmia is so called because of the rapid cycles. Like I said I will be at a party and people think I am drunk because I laugh and am funny and everyone laughs and I am in my element.. then suddenly I stop and think, "what the hell am I doing this for" and I will just go home. And when I look back the next day I will be very embarrassed at the thought of it, and lose more self esteem.

I can always remember things being like that.

But in the 90's I had a session of about 6 years like that and I didnt even know. Just now I look back I can see and its cringeworthy!!!

 

[SimonTALM]

Before I go on with my view I want to be clear, I've never been diagnosed with depression (although I suspect I've been close once) so I'm talking here purely from my personal thoughts without experience. I also think that everyone who is happy to admit that they have had or currently have a form of depressive mental illness needs to be applauded as we can see there is lack of understanding out there about the situation and the more that are happy to share their experiences the better peoples understanding will be (so again). Finally before I put my thoughts down I want to say I'll be using the terms depressives and non-depressives purely to describe those that appear to be prone to depressive illness vs those that don't appear to be prone to depressive illness, I hope these terms are OK with everyone.

My Take:

I believe the brain is a fantastic device especially when you consider the millions of things it does on its own to keep us alive, all those things that it does without you needing to be consciously being aware of them; controlling the heart, individual muscles, levels of hormones / chemicals etc, digestion, breathing, repairing minor injuries, the list could go on forever. Even something as simple as lifting your arm and picking an item up really brings home the power of the unconscious mind (think about all the muscles that are moving in that precisely controlled manner by the unconscious part of the brain).

For me there is something that is clearly different between depressives and non-depressives and there is an argument that this is down to chemical balance in the brain, others argue that this is psychological. I believe that it is both, after all it is the brain that controls the levels of the chemicals. I fully accept there is plenty of evidence that the pills work, hence their usage by the NHS. However, I can't help but wonder if this is may just be a temporary solution focused on the symptom and not the cause. There is evidence to support me here because as soon as the depressive is better the pills are stopped and for a while they feel ok but sometimes they slowly slip back down the slop as the chemical imbalance builds. There are plenty of examples of depressives who have numerous bouts of illness. With my belief about the power of the brain I can't help but wonder that with the right treatment why can't the the brain sort itself out, we already know how powerful it is?

To some extent I see this argument behind the comments that a1ex2001 has put forward. In a way he managed to successfully get his own brain to correct the chemical levels, although I recognise that not everyone can do this on their own like he did.

As I said this is my thoughts on it, I am not an expert and I have tremendous sympathy for those that are in that dark place at the moment you will find your path out soon

Anyway back to Petemc's OP, I often find that my best creative photography comes from when I'm looking inward and from what I've read about depression there is a lot of inward looking going on. If what I've read is true then perhaps there is a case that depression is linked to creativity. It clearly isn't a direct relationship as there are lots of creatives who are non-depressives.

 

[SimonTALM]

That reminds me of something that happened to me when I was 14. I wrote a poem about self-harm etc, and one of the teachers read it, his response "Tell me this doesnt mean, what I think it means" I smiled and replied "it doesnt mean what you think it means" and walked away. Nothing more was ever said, and I continued self-harming for another 4-years.

Hmm... good teacher was he??? (the teacher, not you )

 

[AndyB]

I can relate to that feeling Janice. I am not a depressive in the same way but very often I will be at a party or function having a great time and then just switch off. I tend to wander home without saying a word and people start to worry where I was and then moan at me for leaving.

 

[AndyB]

Sorry - I dont mean to be offensive caling you a depressive - thats probably not the right word

 

[Rocket]

I'm just coming out of a bout of depression that has lasted a couple of years, I should come off the medication completely next week, so for me it's a real milestone. I spent eight years with depression at the end of my twenties / early thirties though it was only diagnosed within the final two years. I was hoping that was it and never thought I'd be there again.

Photography helps me no end, in fact I think I'd be lost without it.

Sorry to say, its there for life, it may well be in the back ground, but its always going to be there and ready to fire in at any time.. One just has to learn to deal with it...

 

[Ewan]

I can't help wondering if the number of people with depression has increased with time, or decreased, or stayed the same and it's just diagnosed more easily and people are more open about it now so it appears that it's increased.

It seems to me that more and more conditions are named and labelled every day, when previously they would just have been elements of someones character, especially conditions related to the brain and not always externally obvious.

Is there anyone here who has been helped by a diagnosis of depression, as in it has helped you to understand your ups and downs and get a clearer focus on what's happening to you, or would you say it's made it worse as you perhaps feel like its harder to overcome now you know what it is?

 

[richpips]

I spent time in hospital, had lots of drugs, but in the end I think that what helped me out most was trying to change the way I interpreted things.

Doing my best too see the glass half full rather than the half empty scenario.

Having said that being ruthlessly self critical has improved my photography.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is the posh name for it.

 

[dellipher]

Hmm... good teacher was he??? (the teacher, not you )

He Was my Personal, Social, Health Education Teacher Makes it a bit Ironic huh?

 

[Janice]

Sorry - I dont mean to be offensive caling you a depressive - thats probably not the right word

Andy, that's one of the better things Ive been called!!

 

[AndyB]

Thats a releif then

 

[OneTen]

Sorry to say, its there for life, it may well be in the back ground, but its always going to be there and ready to fire in at any time.. One just has to learn to deal with it...

I realise that. My line manager was responsible for pushing me into this latest depression. I feel that I have to do something about that now.

 

[Janice]

Thats a releif then

Nutter, Mental, Weirdo Ive heard them all, and that was from my husband and children!

 

[Janice]

I realise that. My line manager was responsible for pushing me into this latest depression. I feel that I have to do something about that now.

Go round and whack 'im!!

 

[Diego Garcia]

A good point walls. That aside I really am baffled. Where does this ability to see greatness in people and places come from while being heavily depressed and hating myself? They seem like complete opposites.

That is the biggest paradox with depression. It is an isolating illness to as you want people to call but when they do, you have nothing to say. People see greatness in what i/we do, but all I see are bad pictures that are getting worse. I have lost loads of people through depression, the greatest of which was my wife. I can never replace her, but I don't try.

I am going back on anti depressants asap as I am sinking day by day and I have started having repeat suicide thoughts and last night I sat up til 4am worrying about my camera kit. I used to paint walls in my flat....

 

[AndyB]

Janice i think it doesn't matter so much what people call you - it's more the way they do it. You can be called to loony in an affectionate way by the rght person. So if I do call you a fruitcake it's because I like you

 

[Janice]

Janice i think it doesn't matter so much what people call you - it's more the way they do it. You can be called to loony in an affectionate way by the rght person. So if I do call you a fruitcake it's because I like you

It was all said in a nasty way I'm afraid. Id love to be called a fruitcake affectionately as Id agree!.

In arguements... "go and take some tablets"... "why dont you go into a mental home" things like that.

Now nutcase by a friend is just fine!

 

[WeddingHack]

Being "different" can force creativity. It forces you to explore yourself and ask questions within. It forces you to wonder why things are the way they are, and I guess it forces you to really *look* around you. Being creative is a natural leap of being different I feel.

I'm with Gary, creativity comes from the innate ability to look at the world in a different way to others. I don't believe that it's linked to depression.

I'd wager that there are just as many happy artists in the world as there are depressed ones. By linking your creativity to your depression in your mind you run the risk of maintaining a self-fulfilling prophecy ... without my angst will I still be able to turn out the goods ?

When I got divorced a few years ago, I was naturally upset and I buried myself in my work. At some stage I had the feeling that maybe the creativity in what I was doing was being fed by the pain I was feeling. The thoughts didn't last long and went away as time healed, but it was easy for me to see the trap.

It's likely that your mood will direct what your creativity actually outputs or creates, but maybe less so with photography - I know that whether I'm happy, sad, tired, stressed, elated, whatever, as soon as the camera is to my eye pretty much all that matters is what I see through that viewfinder.

 

[Diego Garcia]

I'm with Gary, creativity comes from the innate ability to look at the world in a different way to others. I don't believe that it's linked to depression.

I'd wager that there are just as many happy artists in the world as there are depressed ones. By linking your creativity to your depression in your mind you run the risk of maintaining a self-fulfilling prophecy ... without my angst will I still be able to turn out the goods ?

When I got divorced a few years ago, I was naturally upset and I buried myself in my work. At some stage I had the feeling that maybe the creativity in what I was doing was being fed by the pain I was feeling. The thoughts didn't last long and went away as time healed, but it was easy for me to see the trap.

It's likely that your mood will direct what your creativity actually outputs or creates, but maybe less so with photography - I know that whether I'm happy, sad, tired, stressed, elated, whatever, as soon as the camera is to my eye pretty much all that matters is what I see through that viewfinder.

Wise words, was going to try and convey the same, but this is spot on!

 

[stellarbeam]

This is an interesting thread to read through. I've been in a very low period since I was about 15 (I'm almost 23 now) I think it would be wrong to call it depression as I wouldn't have been able to cope without help this long if it had of been. If I'm going through a particularly bad period sometimes I throw myself into my photography but other times it's the complete opposite in that I just think I'm rubbish and will never be any good and just want to give up. I can be poodleing along just fine and something small will happen and my whole mood can flip 180 degrees in a split second, and I can stay like that for a few days or weeks. I find most of the time I feel like I'm looking in on the world but not actually there, like I'm watching life on the TV. I guess that is what it is like when I take photos. I'm viewing it through a viewfinder, as if I'm not really there.

When I actually think about all my symptoms/personality traits/bizareness it's like a list of a disorder on the Autistic spectrum.

I want to be normal...

...but I like my quirkyness...

I guess I want to just be accepted for me and to lead a relatively normal existence. Sadly it doesn't feel like it's going to happen anytime soon

 

[photostar_1]

I grew up with a Dad who had "depression" for many years, off and on. I don't know what kind and Mum was good at sheltering us from his worst moments, but I know he had E.C.T. many, many times and was on drugs of various kinds for years. Talk about One Flew Over.......

He was a good photographer, working mainly in black and white and did all his own processing etc. I can still remember the smells of those chemicals! He was also a good artist, working mainly in oils.

I think he probably had Bi-polar......he had amazing highs (when he was such fun to be with), but when "down" wouldn't speak, or eat or even dress for what seemed like ages. He also collected things.......newspapers mostly. Piles and piles of them all over the house. Poor Mum! One good family friend referred to him as special.....and he was.

To anyone suffering....you and your families have my deepest sympathy.

I just hope it's not hereditary......I'm not bothered for me; I've got this far in life reasonably ok, but I do hope it misses my children. They are both talented in their own fields of creativity.

Which is the chicken and which the egg........artistic temperament v depressive personality?