Creative Photography

[Joenail]

Has anyone else noticed the vast amounts of light painting, star trails and photoshop in the creative photography section? I am in no way degrading any of the images posted there, but, the sheer amount of times it's all been done makes me wonder how 'creative' a lot of it actually is. It seems with the digital technology and the (kind of) monkey see monkey do attitude to photography at the moment originality is becoming more and more rare. Though it might just be because if something has been/is being 'done' as much as photography, we run out of firsts.

I'm interested to see what other people think about this, and am happy to be completely shot down

-J


P.S, apologies if I've offended anyone. I'm talking about the creative photography section as a whole, and not any one photograph.

 

[Yv]

I think that is a little bit harsh, as the only way to learn new techniques is to copy what others do, then get the feedback, then learn to make that technique different. The very nature of the forum is that there are a lot more 'learners' so you will get a lot of stuff that you feel is similar.

Personally I like some of the stuff that is appearing in there, such as the girl dancing in the studio that appeared the other day. It wasn't perfect but with the feedback the poster got, he can try again for an even better effect. So, its not all light painting and star trails.... and apart from anything else, it is what that section is there for soooo......

Go out and do something different, lead the trend!

 

[Joenail]

I completely understand that there are a lot of beginners in this forum, and how people learn by taking others' ideas and doing it themselves - that's how I started! I'm not saying it's all light painting and star trails at all, and neither am I saying that they aren't good. My attempts at light painting haven't came close to most of the ones here. I'm just surprised at the amount, that's all.

Ach, maybe I'm just being a bit of a moody b*****d :bonk:

 

[Carter64]

As most of us are UK based, I think light-painting and star trails are seasonal in this section Bloody hard to get star trails in June Unless you're an insomniac. With an alarm clock
Points taken (both).
I think one reason why the section was created was to give a showcase for the very techniques you mention. Photo-manip doesn't fit into any other section, for example.
Of course, that's a whole new discussion: when is photography art and is art using a camera photography?

 

[Tori]

Have you seen the amount of birds in the birds section?

My creative photography wasn't a light trail, or light painting at all...

 

[TinaC]

<snip>

Ach, maybe I'm just being a bit of a moody b*****d :bonk:

[s1]
^^^^^
Yup

[/s1]

 

[Joenail]

Have you seen the amount of birds in the birds section?

My creative photography wasn't a light trail, or light painting at all...

I was quite clear (twice) that I wasn't saying all of it is light painting or star trails, just a lot of it.

More than anything, I was thinking about when something stops being creative, either because it's been done a lot, or because of the lack of creativity and more seeing something that's quick, gives you instant results and can be fairly easy, and doing it how you've been told (much like I did with light painting).

 

[itsdavedotnet]

You forgot the millions upon billions of bloody water droplet photos


I agree entirely with your post.

 

[Alastair]

I can't believe how many ruddy mountains there are in the landscape section, and if it's not ruddy mountains, it's ruddy waterfalls..

.. but seriously, if it annoys you that much you'll just have to pull your finger out and dilute it with something different

 

[stormcrow]

What about the motorsport section full of bloody cars and motorbikes, Sports is chocka with people kicking a ball and don’t get me started on the nude and glamour section T**s and A**es everywhere.

 

[Joenail]

I can't believe how many ruddy mountains there are in the landscape section, and if it's not ruddy mountains, it's ruddy waterfalls..

.. but seriously, if it annoys you that much you'll just have to pull your finger out and dilute it with something different

Have you seen the amount of birds in the birds section?

What about the motorsport section full of bloody cars and motorbikes, Sports is chocka with people kicking a ball and don&#8217;t get me started on the nude and glamour section T**s and A**es everywhere.

I'm not arguing whether or not a mountain is a mountain, or a bird is a bird, I'm trying to discuss how creative something is when it's been copied or taught. I'm not annoyed about it. I'm not saying it's bad, and I'm not saying I'm any better. Fancy stopping with the mindless sarcasm?

-J

 

[stormcrow]

Fancy stopping with the mindless sarcasm?

-J

Mindless!! a lot of thought went into that post, I'm off to do a portrait, oh hang on that's been done hasn't it, bu**er!!

 

[Tori]

Joe, we are only pulling your leg, chill!
I understand what you're saying, but I think we will always have lots of stuff repeated in every section. Red Kites get hammered in the summer, the deer in october, the puffins in june etc. But I think what you need to remember is, is that in creative, some people have never tried these things before, so it's really creative to them, and I think we should be supporting that. It may have been done before, but it's new to someone else.

Maybe just don't open the light trails threads?

 

[Alastair]

Fancy stopping with the mindless sarcasm?

Not really, you've started 13 threads (including this one) and not one is in Creative Photography. How members of the forum choose to apply their creativity is their concern. As has already been noted, many of these topics are seasonal when the days shorten and the nights lengthen.

You want to have a go at others percieved lack of creativity, then do it by doing better yourself. Lead by example rather than snipe from the sidelines.

 

[LauraJ23]

In my opinion, if something is creative, it always will be, no matter how many times it has been done. That's how photography evolves.

 

[Disphotic]

Totally agree with you Joe.

I'm all for people trying these techniques out, because even if ultimately you end up abandoning them you learn plenty along that way that can be applied in more original photos.

Fact is though that lots of photographers (amateur and pro) are intellectually very lazy, and would rather spend months or years perfecting something that someone else has done the groundwork on than spend that time coming up a really original idea. Star trails, and light painting are both perfect examples of this. The technique might be very good, but the result is still invariably boring imo. I also think some of these people have a tendency to rubbish any attempt to break away from this lazy status quo, perhaps because they feel unfamiliar, or unequipped to deal with ideas that haven't already been sounded out by the photographic community.

 

[MWHCVT]

Well that was an interesting read I see the creative section as my baby on this forum, as I along with some other members really pushed the staff of the forum to get it added as a section, the mods too our idea on developed it into the section that it is my specific proposal was for a after dark forum so not exactly what has been created but I love the section...

As to light painting/light trails and startrails being easy, I would say that they are not ask a person that has spent 2-3hours plus doing a star trail only to find out at the end that the focus ring was knocked as it was set up so your hundreds of exposures are useless, or the person that spends hours learning just how to spin the perfect orb or paint in a set way, or light trails, yeah it can be an easy way to get into long exposure photography but to do it well it's not as easy as it looks, I spend hours finding the best locations, will visit locations multiple times to get the best light etc, so it's not as easy as you may thing

Sorry this will have come across as very defencive but I am when it comes to this section I make sure that I check out every single thread in that section and C&C it and as has been said if you don't like what you see, either don't come into that section or post something that you believe to be creative we support nearly anything in that section be it extreme HDR, light painting, creative portraiture all you have to do is to show creative flare

Matt
MWHCVT

 

[Joenail]

Not really, you've started 13 threads (including this one) and not one is in Creative Photography. How members of the forum choose to apply their creativity is their concern. As has already been noted, many of these topics are seasonal when the days shorten and the nights lengthen.

You want to have a go at others percieved lack of creativity, then do it by doing better yourself. Lead by example rather than snipe from the sidelines.

I apologise if I've came across as having a go at people, that wasn't my intention at all.

I have tried a more creative approach to protography - soaking film in baking soda & drying before exposure, cross processing, overlapping film in dev tanks, etc etc. Just because I haven't uploaded it, doesn't mean I haven't tried it!

 

[SAVA9E]

Kingfishers, you cant have enough bloody kingfishers lol

Me, im a beginner and enjoy the whole light painting side of photography so will continue to post up my images and if i ever get to see a live kingfisher i will post a pic of that too.

 

[Yv]

Joe, I think Tori actually phrased it very well - even techniques that have been done to death are new to someone and creative to them and breaking out of their own personal comfort zone, perhaps a little encouragement to those people to think outside the box might be more effective actually in their threads .

 

[Joenail]

As to light painting/light trails and startrails being easy, I would say that they are not ask a person that has spent 2-3hours plus doing a star trail only to find out at the end that the focus ring was knocked as it was set up so your hundreds of exposures are useless, or the person that spends hours learning just how to spin the perfect orb or paint in a set way, or light trails, yeah it can be an easy way to get into long exposure photography but to do it well it's not as easy as it looks, I spend hours finding the best locations, will visit locations multiple times to get the best light etc, so it's not as easy as you may thing

Matt
MWHCVT

I didn't say long exposures, be it star trails, light painting, or general long exposures are easy as a whole, but they CAN be. I could grab my camera now, go into the garden with a tripod, set it to iso400, f/22 and shake a torch about a bit in front of it. It almost definitely wouldn't be a great picture, but it wouldn't require any special skill on my part. I can fully appreciate the skill involved making a picture that actually IS great though! God knows I've been trying to do it for years

Joe, I think Tori actually phrased it very well - even techniques that have been done to death are new to someone and creative to them and breaking out of their own personal comfort zone, perhaps a little encouragement to those people to think outside the box might be more effective actually in their threads .

Definitely, but I think the level of creativity used can become less and less as it gets done more. For example, there are cameras with 'night' and 'landscape' features now. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a light painting one as well.

 

[SAVA9E]

One more thing i would add is its very disheartening to someone starting out to read threads like this, as you said we all start somewhere.

 

[Joenail]

One more thing i would add is its very disheartening to someone starting out to read threads like this, as you said we all start somewhere.

You're probably right, and for that I apologise. I'm not slating light painting (or any other type of photography for that matter) at all. I think it's a great thing to try and it taught me a lot.

I could have worded everything I've said in this thread a lot better, but [insert rubbish excuse here]!

 

[Yv]

:



Definitely, but I think the level of creativity used can become less and less as it gets done more. For example, there are cameras with 'night' and 'landscape' features now. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a light painting one as well.

hmmm...but there has been night and landscape options on cameras for years now, my first digital camera back in 2002 had those modes, so not sure that is relevent generally. Yes they can make it easier but I think most people posting here are trying to do it manually based on what they have learned from reading about others doing it. I guess there is a certain satisfaction in 'doing it yourself' on several levels here.

 

[SAVA9E]

I think these things go round and round, when i first joined here every other post was a bloody kingfisher and now the nights have drawn in its easier to go out early and do some light painting, one person posts and another thinks im gonna have a go at that.

When i started my course i was having to wait till 11pm to go out and do light trails but now i can go out at 6pm and there are more cars on the road at that time.

 

[joxby]

I thought we ran out of firsts waaay before digital cameras were even invented.
There is nothin new under the sun
I don't suppose it matters what is en vogue at TPF on any particular day of the week because whatever it is it will be new to somebody somewhere.

 

[SAVA9E]

I thought we ran out of firsts waaay before digital cameras were even invented.
There is nothin new under the sun
I don't suppose it matters what is en vogue at TPF on any particular day of the week because whatever it is it will be new to somebody somewhere.

Well said and spot on.

 

[Joenail]

It might be new to that person, but they've still seen it, thought about it, and done something the same, or at least very similar. If someone were to come up with some amazing new concept such as light painting, his version would have required more creativity than the person who looked at it & though 'that's good I'll do that too!'. The 2nd version might be better, but still have less creativity involved

 

[daza]

Just let people be, just because michelangelo did the sistine chapel does that mean I should never pick up a paint brush.


I researched smoke trails pulled out my gear and gave it a go my results while been a collective of smoke art were individual and unique in that I took them, these days there is nothing new to photograph theres that many people with camera's you just can't come up with something new. You can however have your own unique style in your chosen field.

That and well its cold out so people are going to do more drop photos, light trails as it gets darker sooner. I'd put it down to seasonal differences just look at how many firework photos we've had due to oh I don't know fireworks night


Chill relax just let go.

 

[Scarecrow]

In truth, there is very little posted here that hasn't been done before at some point. There may be variations on a theme, but not much that could be truly called unique and groundbreaking.

But that's not the point for most of us. Personally I know that I am not a particularly creative person by nature, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the photography that I do, and the images that I produce. Having said that, I am always looking to improve on my technique/composition/PP work, and look forward to viewing other people's work for comparison and to give me nudges with ideas that I think I can incorporate in to my own photography in an effort to make those improvements.

 

[Jayst84]

I think it's funny that a photography forum has a section called Creative Photography - so the rest of the forum is presumably for the photos we didn't put any thought or effort into.

 

[jon ryan]

Totally agree with you Joe.

I'm all for people trying these techniques out, because even if ultimately you end up abandoning them you learn plenty along that way that can be applied in more original photos.

Correct. But then you have to spoil it:

Fact is though that lots of photographers (amateur and pro) are intellectually very lazy, and would rather spend months or years perfecting something that someone else has done the groundwork on than spend that time coming up a really original idea.

How can you come up with an original idea if you have not researched what already exists? This business of perfecting something that someone else has done the groundwork on is what those of us who teach photography call `learning`. And I doubt profoundly that any photographer of worth would ever claim to have `perfected` any single aspect of photography. But trying to improve upon what others have done is absolutely what we should all be attempting. I understand that a similar technique is employed in the teaching of subjects such as driving a car, French, and brain surgery - you see how it's been done by those acclaimed in your field of interest, learn to do it yourself, and then go on to develop your own interpretation using established ground rules and known techniques and possibly developing new techniques.

Star trails, and light painting are both perfect examples of this. The technique might be very good, but the result is still invariably boring imo.

Glad you put `imo` in there. By the way, why are you using that acronym and not developing your own, original one?

I also think some of these people have a tendency to rubbish any attempt to break away from this lazy status quo, perhaps because they feel unfamiliar, or unequipped to deal with ideas that haven't already been sounded out by the photographic community.

Do feel free to enlighten us with examples of your presumably extensive research that revealed these findings.

 

[SAVA9E]

Joe please feel free to post some of your original never before seen photo's

 

[Just Dave]

Well I go to bed early get up and find this thread, as Matt says his original idea was for an after dark board, and TP kindly gave us the creative section, which I enjoy and spend quite a lot of time in,

I think I have only added 3 light trail shots, 2 of road lights and one of a townscape which also had light trails in all the rest of my posts have been varied from fruit carving fun, coloured pencil fun, to colourful macro experiments,

I agree some light trails are a bit boring but as someone has said they werent when I first tried them I was well chuffed with them and I soon moved on to do more creative and tried to incorporate them into townscapes so they weren't the actual subject, but part of the overall image,

As for other kinds of light painting I havent tried much really, but hope to and reading how they are made, helps me think how to be more creative when I do have a go,

Firework shots to me that explosions of colour in the sky with no imagination or context are boring to me, but for the person who has tried them for the first time they are brilliant, I never fell into that type of just explosions, personally, as Ive always been more creative in my life

 

[freddisu]

This thread seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth to people who try something which to them is new and not always easy for them to do the first time , i have tried a few different things after seeing them on this forum and ALSO got some very helpful advice from here. I really do hope it doesnt put people off as even the some type of photos are all different and i for one enjoy looking at them and feel i can learn from them. Su..

 

[Ian D J]

Dang, I was going to post my photos of LED lights attached to some Kingfishers flying in front of a waterfall with star trails in the background - all done in HDR, of course.

I will admit in saying that 99.99999% of my photography has been inspired by what I've seen here in TP. I see something I like and thought "Ooo, wouldn't mind having a go at it" . . . and then I do it with varying degrees of success while at the same time honing my slowly developing skills - while at the same time having fun with it. I've always been the type to "look before I leap".

Of course, if I do come up with a "brainwave" and create something that is something unique. . . well, naturally I would like to show that off big time - may even try and make some money out of it!
But for now, I'm having some fun with it all and it is keeping me occupied - which is the main thing really. I also like to think that I have developed my own "niche" at the same time - even though we are now in an era where every man and their dog own a digital camera (whether it's a P & S or a high-end DSLR).

Mind you, since most of my photos are "variations on a theme", it does explain why I hardly post in the main photography section but instead preferring to rattle about in the "Out Of Focus" section.

 

[SAVA9E]

Dang, I was going to post my photos of LED lights attached to some Kingfishers flying in front of a waterfall with star trails in the background - all done in HDR, of course.

Go on i dare you

 

[Disphotic]

How can you come up with an original idea if you have not researched what already exists? This business of perfecting something that someone else has done the groundwork on is what those of us who teach photography call `learning`. And I doubt profoundly that any photographer of worth would ever claim to have `perfected` any single aspect of photography. But trying to improve upon what others have done is absolutely what we should all be attempting. I understand that a similar technique is employed in the teaching of subjects such as driving a car, French, and brain surgery - you see how it's been done by those acclaimed in your field of interest, learn to do it yourself, and then go on to develop your own interpretation using established ground rules and known techniques and possibly developing new techniques.

As I previously said I have no problem with people trying these techniques out, and you won't find a bigger fan of research than me, I spend almost as much time at one of London's reference libraries reading about photography and looking at other photographer's work as I do going out shooting. To me though the purpose of understanding what's come before is to inform what you do, what techniques and subjects you use or don't use, and to give you a sense of what avenues have and haven't been explored before. Simply saying everything has been done before so all we can do is emulate other people is stupid and lazy, and it is not true.

Also the examples of driving, French and brain surgery are completely inappropriate. Photography is a creative practice in a way that neither of those are, and it's not governed by rules in the same way that those fields are. Tbh if you're approaching photography the same way you approach driving then I'd be a bit worried.

I'm ignoring your other points, since the sarkiness in them makes it pretty obvious you don't want a proper reply to them anyway.

 

[Alastair]

Helsinki bus station theory.

Some people get on a bus, others just hang around the bus shelter smoking and trying to look cool. To paraphrase Arno, "Get on the ****ing bus". If you're having a go at something you've seen that's inspired you, at least you're having a go at something.

Light trails, light paintaing.. ya da, ya da.. seems to be the theme from some here.. but how many of those saying that have looked in Creative yesterday or this morning and seen this?

 

[SAVA9E]

Yeah i saw that, very cool i must say and think i will have to have a word with my dad as he fly's model aircraft.