Crazy...

Eloise said:
With respect Dan ... I think you've decided you want the Sony A9 and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. Nothing wrong with that (and its your money) but you're here looking for validation more than anything?

I don't know (but suspect) there was probably similar discussion when you were considering the SL?

PS. I acknowledge I'm probably guilty of this kind of behaviour too ... had a long discussion over D7200 vs D610 vs D750 12 months back kind of KNOWING I wanted a D750.
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Well it started off as a mini-crisis and swallow of pride,

As people have got involved with their 2-cents, sure I wouldn't mind some validation on my decisions but I also welcome the counter-arguments. The fact that I use the money earned to fund my camera gear for personal enjoyment surely clouds my decisions a little.. I can imagine using the A9 for personal pleasure but not the 1DX, but something like that can't be the only factor else I'm stuck again with making bad decisions :)
 
dancook said:
Well it started off as a mini-crisis and swallow of pride,

As people have got involved with their 2-cents, sure I wouldn't mind some validation on my decisions but I also welcome the counter-arguments. The fact that I use the money earned to fund my camera gear for personal enjoyment surely clouds my decisions a little.. I can imagine using the A9 for personal pleasure but not the 1DX, but something like that can't be the only factor else I'm stuck again with making bad decisions :)
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Theres only one thing you can do..... Scratch the itch! :banana:
 
dancook said:
Well it started off as a mini-crisis and swallow of pride,

As people have got involved with their 2-cents, sure I wouldn't mind some validation on my decisions but I also welcome the counter-arguments. The fact that I use the money earned to fund my camera gear for personal enjoyment surely clouds my decisions a little.. I can imagine using the A9 for personal pleasure but not the 1DX, but something like that can't be the only factor else I'm stuck again with making bad decisions :)
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I agree, what on the Sony Zeiss 35mm f2.8 or 55mm f1.8 on the Sony A9 and you have a pretty small setup for street / personal use.... then for hardcore work whack on the G Masters with the Vertical Battery Grip... 2 batteries will easily see you a full-day or two of shooting..... :D
 
"crazy...."

Maybe yes!

Sell your Leica collection and you'll have in the region of the 15000£ to play with.
Keep one Leica and sell the rest and you'll have 12000£ to play with.

"I get a little depressed"

It seems like GAS is GAS and do not stop, you've reach the top of the ladder and there's nothing above. Maybe it's time to take a step down the ladder and buy a more practical camera. The sony A9 seems awesome not many people can afford this kind of toy but it seems like you can so go for it! I doubt even to your standards the IQ would be problematic.
 
Dan, just look beyond the various camera models available right now, it's not about the A9 vs 1DX etc. You're buying into a professional 'system' that has got to deliver come what may, today, next year, and in ten years time - it's more about Canon vs Nikon vs Sony long term. The camera options will look very different then, especially with Canikon on the brink of major mirrorless announcements probably this year. And what subjects will you be shooting then? It could all be very different.
 
I'd sell off all the SL stuff and then get a D850/5D4/A9 + 24-70/2.8 + 70-200/2.8. Keep the M kit as a second body.

Most fashion shows are so well lit you could get away with something older like a 5D3 or D750. Any pro body + pro lens made in the last 10 years can keep up with a fashion show.
 
Lemaildetom said:
Sell your Leica collection and you'll have in the region of the 15000£ to play with.
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Closer to £25k based on used prices.

I haven't mentioned this, and maybe it would change things - but I'm currently not looking to make profit from photography work, I want to claim as much back against tax as possible - it is only funding the hobby.

In the future that will change if I make it my primary income

HoppyUK said:
Dan, just look beyond the various camera models available right now, it's not about the A9 vs 1DX etc. You're buying into a professional 'system' that has got to deliver come what may, today, next year, and in ten years time - it's more about Canon vs Nikon vs Sony long term. The camera options will look very different then, especially with Canikon on the brink of major mirrorless announcements probably this year. And what subjects will you be shooting then? It could all be very different.
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It's a fair consideration, but I can't predict the future and I can't keep waiting for the next thing.

An SL2 with Sports/Low Light AF and a high buffer would be perfect, but I need something now not in a years time. I'd continue shooting the Leica if such camera existed.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Dan, just look beyond the various camera models available right now, it's not about the A9 vs 1DX etc. You're buying into a professional 'system' that has got to deliver come what may, today, next year, and in ten years time - it's more about Canon vs Nikon vs Sony long term. The camera options will look very different then, especially with Canikon on the brink of major mirrorless announcements probably this year. And what subjects will you be shooting then? It could all be very different.
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This is a very good point. @dancook didn't you say there was some issue with the Sony and using flash that you weren't happy with?
 
snerkler said:
This is a very good point. @dancook didn't you say there was some issue with the Sony and using flash that you weren't happy with?
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You cannot use flash in eshutter mode, however you're not going to be stealthy at this point anyway..

I did think about the fashion show, the previous photographer had two flashes setup at the back to make subject pop - the 1dx syncs at 1/250th to freeze the movement. Any less than that and you'll be pushing it for motion blur.. and nothing else syncs like that, that I've been looking at.

However I could just use HSS right? problem solved.
 
dancook said:
You cannot use flash in eshutter mode, however you're not going to be stealthy at this point anyway..

I did think about the fashion show, the previous photographer had two flashes setup at the back to make subject pop - the 1dx syncs at 1/250th to freeze the movement. Any less than that and you'll be pushing it for motion blur.. and nothing else syncs like that, that I've been looking at.

However I could just use HSS right? problem solved.
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So if you want to use flash with the Sony and you can't use it in electronic shutter mode then you're restricted to 5 fps, not ideal. That being said, I don't know how many FPS you can use with flash anyway due to the recycle time etc?
 
snerkler said:
So if you want to use flash with the Sony and you can't use it in electronic shutter mode then you're restricted to 5 fps, not ideal. That being said, I don't know how many FPS you can use with flash anyway due to the recycle time etc?
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That's why he suggested using HSS (continual lower-power flashes). I get the feeling the lighting crew for the fashion show might be a bit upset if there's a pair of flashguns firing like mad while the models walk down the catwalk though ;)

I think you're over-worrying again though Dan. Even 5fps is more than enough to take two pictures of someone walking towards you on a fixed path.
 
dancook said:
Closer to £25k based on used prices.

I haven't mentioned this, and maybe it would change things - but I'm currently not looking to make profit from photography work, I want to claim as much back against tax as possible - it is only funding the hobby.

In the future that will change if I make it my primary income
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I'm a bit confused about this Dan. If you don't make any profit, what are you claiming the tax against?
 
stevelmx5 said:
That's why he suggested using HSS (continual lower-power flashes). I get the feeling the lighting crew for the fashion show might be a bit upset if there's a pair of flashguns firing like mad while the models walk down the catwalk though ;)

I think you're over-worrying again though Dan. Even 5fps is more than enough to take two pictures of someone walking towards you on a fixed path.
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Actually I feel pretty zen about it now ;)
 
stevelmx5 said:
That's why he suggested using HSS (continual lower-power flashes). I get the feeling the lighting crew for the fashion show might be a bit upset if there's a pair of flashguns firing like mad while the models walk down the catwalk though ;)

I think you're over-worrying again though Dan. Even 5fps is more than enough to take two pictures of someone walking towards you on a fixed path.
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But the flash still runs out of power using HSS does it not. For a single cycle flash there are multiple 'bursts' to allow 'sync' with the HSS but it will still need to recycle at some point won't it? I've never used flash in this scenario tbh so it's. genuine question (y)
 
snerkler said:
But the flash still runs out of power using HSS does it not. For a single cycle flash there are multiple 'bursts' to allow 'sync' with the HSS but it will still need to recycle at some point won't it? I've never used flash in this scenario tbh so it's. genuine question (y)
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I'd use the Citi 600 portable strobes, they'll flash for days :)
 
stevelmx5 said:
I'm a bit confused about this Dan. If you don't make any profit, what are you claiming the tax against?
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Oh I'm not sure on the best way to word that

Basically all income from photography will be 'reinvested' into the business and spent on gear. So no PAYE or whatever it's called - there may be limitations on this because gear typically lasts more than one year (apparently...?!), I'm yet to work it out.

just match expenses to income is what i'm saying, though I need to understand the intricacies.
 
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Speak to an accountant before you act but I would think hiring equipment to fulfill a shoot would be simple enough to write up on a self assessment.
A £x000 captial investment in cameras and lenses against a business that makes no money after costs would seem to be asking for investigation?
 
AMcUK said:
Speak to an accountant before you act but I would think hiring equipment to fulfill a shoot would be simple enough to write up on a self assessment.
A £x000 captial investment in cameras and lenses against a business that makes no money after costs would seem to be asking for investigation?
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Ok, understood - it was only a vague plan, I figured it might not be so simple as that, but i will look into it properly.
 
Dan, no idea of the costs/values involved here... but would it be practical to sell your SL (which appears to be where you are finding limitations) buy either D750, 5D3 / 6DII or A7III with a relevant 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 (lenses second hand where possible) or even a D4 or older 1D (sorry not upto date on the last gen Canon ‘1’ name).

That would give you something suitable for your requirements for now without a huge financial risk.

In 6-12 months you can see (a) if Leica have a SL2 which suits your requirements better and have the lenses for it and (b) what Canon and/or Nikon release in terms of Mirrorless.

As they say you date your camera but marry your lenses... so no harm in flirting for a while on the side (said no wife every!)
 
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AMcUK said:
Speak to an accountant before you act but I would think hiring equipment to fulfill a shoot would be simple enough to write up on a self assessment.
A £x000 captial investment in cameras and lenses against a business that makes no money after costs would seem to be asking for investigation?
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An accountant would be very prudent. Running at a loss is not a problem in itself for HMRC, but if they think you're just funding a hobby, that'd be different. If you have other business interests, you could maybe bolt it on to that? Possibly.

Get an accountant and do it right from the start. If you submit a self-assessment form that doesn't ring right with HMRC, they will be on your case for years. Stay below the radar ;)
 
It's not impossible - when I registered as a Sole Trader I was invited to a 1/2 day workshop at the local tax office on how to avoid making mistakes with your tax.
One of the other attendees was setting up a photography business and was delighted to discover he could bring his existing equipment into the business in the way you describe.
He thought he would need to buy new gear to offset against the tax.
I admit I didn't pay much attention as my consultancy relies on a copy of Office, a desktop computer and a broadband connection so there's precious little to worry about.

It's not uncommon for a small business to lose money in the first year or so - but if you're turning over thousands a year and making no profit while holding down another PAYE job I'd imagine there might be cause for concern.

HMRC generally just want you to fill in the forms properly and pay the right tax - they don't have the resources to investigate fraud but they do love to slap on a penalty for getting things wrong on the paperwork ;)
https://www.gov.uk/expenses-if-youre-self-employed
 
Eloise said:
Dan, no idea of the costs/values involved here... but would it be practical to sell your SL (which appears to be where you are finding limitations) buy either D750, 5D3 / 6DII or A7III with a relevant 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 (lenses second hand where possible) or even a D4 or older 1D (sorry not upto date on the last gen Canon ‘1’ name).

That would give you something suitable for your requirements for now without a huge financial risk.

In 6-12 months you can see (a) if Leica have a SL2 which suits your requirements better and have the lenses for it and (b) what Canon and/or Nikon release in terms of Mirrorless.
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Fortunately it turns out I don't need to sell any of my Leica gear, and I can buy the Sony - so I'll hang onto the Leica for a little while, whilst I figure it all out
 
dancook said:
I use photography work not to make a living but to pay for the camera gear I enjoy using personally.
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dancook said:
Closer to £25k based on used prices.

I haven't mentioned this, and maybe it would change things - but I'm currently not looking to make profit from photography work, I want to claim as much back against tax as possible - it is only funding the hobby.
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dancook said:
Basically all income from photography will be 'reinvested' into the business and spent on gear. So no PAYE or whatever it's called - there may be limitations on this because gear typically lasts more than one year (apparently...?!), I'm yet to work it out.
Just match expenses to income is what i'm saying, though I need to understand the intricacies.
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I am going to be ironic there, I really hope HMRC give you the money back!
That is what HMRC is for? Isn't it? Paying people expensive hobby?
 
Lemaildetom said:
I am going to be ironic there, I really hope HMRC give you the money back!
That is what HMRC is for? Isn't it? Paying people expensive hobby?
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They aren't paying me anything.

I will look to claim for the Sony gear as an expense of the business. Which it is.

Which means I will not have to pay as much tax on income.

Any money I make I will spend it on more camera gear and claim that as an expense, which it will be.

I'm not claiming the leica gear as expenses.


-----

Forgive me if I happen to use the Sony gear outside of directly paid work. Everyone needs to practice and I might even produce something worth selling as art..
 
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Looking back at the 5dM3 I was not happy with the continuous autofocus, even with a fast lens like the 200mm F2.0

it struggled in dim lighting like this

Louise Run by dancook1982, on Flickr
 
dancook said:
Looking back at the 5dM3 I was not happy with the continuous autofocus, even with a fast lens like the 200mm F2.0

it struggled in dim lighting like this

Louise Run by dancook1982, on Flickr
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Interesting one this, the 5d3 AF is rated -2EV @ 2.8, on Dpreview it achieves -3EV, thats one of the best scores on any camera. I think the Canons are a little worse at the outer points than Nikons which seem constant across the frame, maybe .5 to 1 EV worse at most for outer points for Canons.

Some other numbers....

Sony A9 -3EV with F2.0 lens
Sony A7RII is -2 EV with F2.0 lens
Canon's 1Dx Mk II & 5D Mk IV are rated at -3 EV with a 2.8 lens
Nikon's D5 & D500 are -4 EV at 2.8
Fuji's X-T2 & X-T20 are -3 EV
 
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dancook said:
Looking back at the 5dM3 I was not happy with the continuous autofocus, even with a fast lens like the 200mm F2.0

it struggled in dim lighting like this

Louise Run by dancook1982, on Flickr
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Do you think you might be expecting too much Dan? You had a camera with an excellent AF system and a lens that apparently has top notch AF speed and were still not happy? Would any camera nail every shot? I think if you're finding this combo not good enough then your old option really is the 1Dx-II or D5. Yes the 5D4 and D850 will be marginally better than the 5D3 but not significant. Would the A9 do any better in this scenario? I don't know.
 
twist said:
Interesting one this, the 5d3 AF is rated -2EV, on Dpreview it achieves -3EV, thats one of the best scores on any camera. I think the Canons are a little worse at the outer points than Nikons which seem constant across the frame, maybe .5 to 1 EV worse at most for outer points for Canons.
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Looking back in LR in a series of 8 frames, 4 were out of focus - I suspect it was hunting a bit a the time
 
snerkler said:
Do you think you might be expecting too much Dan? You had a camera with an excellent AF system and a lens that apparently has top notch AF speed and were still not happy? Would any camera nail every shot? I think if you're finding this combo not good enough then your old option really is the 1Dx-II or D5. Yes the 5D4 and D850 will be marginally better than the 5D3 but not significant. Would the A9 do any better in this scenario? I don't know.
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Expecting too much of a lousy camera perhaps ;) .. *

Sony guys tell me the A9 is perfect in every way, I'm sure it can do it.*



*( :) very tongue in cheek)

I think the ultimate test* will be a Usain Bolt* sprinting* towards the camera in moonlight*, or perhaps by candlelight**
 
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twist said:
Did you see the other camera comparisons I added to that post?
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I see now,

Louise and I haven't been running for a while, but I could perhaps try to recreate the same scenario at the same location for curiosities sake.
 
dancook said:
Looking back in LR in a series of 8 frames, 4 were out of focus - I suspect it was hunting a bit a the time
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So you got 4 shots in focus, including the one you shared which looks fine to me? Maybe you are being a little unrealistic and, even though it’s an excellent Mirrorless camera, I’d be surprised if the A9 is any better in those conditions.
 
stevelmx5 said:
So you got 4 shots in focus, including the one you shared which looks fine to me? Maybe you are being a little unrealistic and, even though it’s an excellent Mirrorless camera, I’d be surprised if the A9 is any better in those conditions.
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it's why I've been shooting Leica, to lower my expectations :D
 
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