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dancook

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Dan
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So I have a leica q, leica m10, leica sl.

50 mm 1.4 Asph M
35mm 1.4 Asph M
24-90 Sl
90-280 sl
75 sl f2

Do you think I'm happy? No.

I get a little depressed when I'm not using it, having that much money spent on gear sitting around, devaluing.

More than that, my paid photography work has become more demanding so that my ability to focus my cameras is so below par, it's become stressful.

I believe if I had a pair of A9 cameras and lenses I could do a better job. Whilst I feel the image quality may not up to my own personal standard, that I will be alone in this and it will not matter to the client.

It could of been a 1dx or d5, but silent shutter is beneficial to my work. I will be following in the foot steps of an excellent photographer with a 1dx and know there are things my leica cannot keep up with to the same standard. Whilst the IQ will be better it surely won't matter to the client.

It's hard to know if I should start selling up my gear to purchase more practical equipment. Maybe I will be happier without the weight of each purchase costing £3-4k, maybe I will miss the image quality I have grown to love.

Perhaps a pair of A9 lenses and a hassleblad x1d as a personal awesome camera will do it all for me..

My decisions are clouded with pride and I don't know what to do anymore..
 
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Rather than looking at your burgeoning (but not performing what you want) Leica collection with pride, look at it as a tool to deliver the results. If it’s not delivering for you, sell it on and buy the right kit for your needs.

Personally, I think you’re a bit nuts spending that much on kit that’s not delivering for you. Whilst I’m sure they’re very nice to hold, the poor AF performance of the SL should mean it’s the first to go even though it’s really shiny. Keep the Q as your ‘point and shoot’ and buy the A9, or a Canon 1DX, or a D810 to deliver the AF performance you want. As for the M10, if you’re not completely happy with manual focus that’s never going to be a great option either.

I assume you mean a Hasselblad X1D as an alternative? Whilst they look great, as do the files from them, the AF is better used for landscapes or more controlled portraits so you may find yourself just as frustrated but £8k lighter.
 
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Harrison’s have quite a bit of second hand Sony FE gear in stock including 2x Sony A9’s. Although their prices might be higher than most they do offer great customer service with 12 months warranty.
I’m pretty sure you could haggle on prices if you bought a few items.
You could always go Grey to save some £££.

I think your reasoning to move to the Sony A9 is sound, the black out free EVF and silent shutter are amazing.

Shop around and don’t pay full RRP. :)
 
dancook said:
So I have a leica q, leica m10, leica sl.

50 mm 1.4 Asph M
35mm 1.4 Asph M
24-90 Sl
90-280 sl
75 sl f2

Do you think I'm happy? No.

I get a little depressed when I'm not using it, having that much money spent on gear sitting around, devaluing.

More than that, my paid photography work has become more demanding so that my ability to focus my cameras is so below par, it's become stressful.

I believe if I had a pair of A9 cameras and lenses I could do a better job. Whilst I feel the image quality may not up to my own personal standard, that I will be alone in this and it will not matter to the client.

It could of been a 1dx or d5, but silent shutter is beneficial to my work. I will be following in the foot steps of an excellent photographer with a 1dx and know there are things my leica cannot keep up with to the same standard. Whilst the IQ will be better it surely won't matter to the client.

It's hard to know if I should start selling up my gear to purchase more practical equipment. Maybe I will be happier without the weight of each purchase costing £3-4k, maybe I will miss the image quality I have grown to love.

Perhaps a pair of A9 lenses and a hassleblad x1d as a personal awesome camera will do it all for me..

My decisions are clouded with pride and I don't know what to do anymore..
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So what is the benefit of say the Leica Q over a DLSR. isn't it fixed at 28mm and in the region of £3500. So what sort of photography would that come into its own?
 
jamesev said:
So what is the benefit of say the Leica Q over a DLSR. isn't it fixed at 28mm and in the region of £3500. So what sort of photography would that come into its own?
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It's small and quiet, fast autofocus and fast lens. My most perfect street camera for a while. Also used it along side other cameras d750, Sl and m10 as my wide at work doings and events. Great travel camera too.
 
No surprises here Dan. How many professionals shoot Leica? There are lots of pretty basic and practical reasons why they don't, and it's not about cost - it's easy to spend even more on a top-end Canikon sports outfit.

You will not miss the hassle, and you will not miss any image quality either.

I'd think very carefully about Hasselblad, and much as I would love an X1D (mostly for self-indulgent reasons, impressing clients, and ignoring the cost!) the obvious downsides are considerable for a small gain in image quality. If I had one, outside the studio I know that in a tight corner, when push came to shove, it would stay in the bag.

That's the easy part - but which way to jump? Canon and Nikon are rock solid, you just can't go far wrong there. Sony is the new kid, tempting, but have they truly arrived? Probably, though both Canon and Nikon are likely to launch full-frame mirrorless later this year. FWIW, in your shoes, right now, I'd go Nikon D850.
 
HoppyUK said:
No surprises here Dan. How many professionals shoot Leica? There are lots of pretty basic and practical reasons why they don't, and it's not about cost - it's easy to spend even more on a top-end Canikon sports outfit.

You will not miss the hassle, and you will not miss any image quality either.

I'd think very carefully about Hasselblad, and much as I would love an X1D (mostly for self-indulgent reasons, impressing clients, and ignoring the cost!) the obvious downsides are considerable for a small gain in image quality. If I had one, outside the studio I know that in a tight corner, when push came to shove, it would stay in the bag.

That's the easy part - but which way to jump? Canon and Nikon are rock solid, you just can't go far wrong there. Sony is the new kid, tempting, but have they truly arrived? Probably, though both Canon and Nikon are likely to launch full-frame mirrorless later this year. FWIW, in your shoes, right now, I'd go Nikon D850.
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Professionals in which field of photography though use Leica?

I guess Medium format is a whole other ball game.

People see photography and they think its a cover all. I was told a while ago if you want to have more than one niche of photography e.g. Weddings and Landscapes then have two very separate websites, as its a turn off for B&G to see a photographers website with their fingers in more than one pie.
 
I'm not even being funny, but what makes Leica image quality any better? Don't see many Leica shooters on here so examples are rare enough
 
dancook said:
My decisions are clouded with pride and I don't know what to do anymore..
Click to expand...

This was me 10 years ago, or rather from 20 years ago when I probably started to have some disposable income up until around 10 or possibly 5 years ago - there's no hard stop, just a gradual realisation. And I'm not just talking about photography here, it extends to all manner of things.

It takes the fun out of pretty much everything. Obsessing over aspects that 100% of the world outside of your head would never notice, and there's a reason for that (and the 100%) - it's as you say, pride is clouding your judgement and you are no longer objective.

No one, absolutely no one will judge you on the 'absence of the Leica' any more than they will judge you on the absence of your McLaren F1, 200ft Yatch, Nobel prize, and hand collected sample of Mars rock. It's just not how people work.
People will applaud you on the work and things you do, your actions - someone once said to me 'nature only counts actions' (note. actions not possessions).

I've seen the quality of your work and it's got b****r all to do with the 'quality' of the equipment your using.
 
Cagey75 said:
I'm not even being funny, but what makes Leica image quality any better? Don't see many Leica shooters on here so examples are rare enough
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Leica IQ is VERY subjective. Just like some people don't see the Fuji artefacts, some people don't see the Leica IQ. If you see it then there's little that compares to it, if you don't you're spending thousands unnecessarily. For me a lot of the 'Leica look' is down to the lenses though, and I certainly think the old manual lenses have more of a distinct look than the new AF lenses. The new lenses are sharp and are very nice, but I just prefer the older ones.

twist said:
Yeah tbh some of your best stuff was taken with the 5d3.
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I think the SL has better IQ tbh, but preferred the style he shot with the 5D3 sometimes.
 
dancook said:
So I have a leica q, leica m10, leica sl.

50 mm 1.4 Asph M
35mm 1.4 Asph M
24-90 Sl
90-280 sl
75 sl f2

Do you think I'm happy? No.

I get a little depressed when I'm not using it, having that much money spent on gear sitting around, devaluing.

More than that, my paid photography work has become more demanding so that my ability to focus my cameras is so below par, it's become stressful.

I believe if I had a pair of A9 cameras and lenses I could do a better job. Whilst I feel the image quality may not up to my own personal standard, that I will be alone in this and it will not matter to the client.

It could of been a 1dx or d5, but silent shutter is beneficial to my work. I will be following in the foot steps of an excellent photographer with a 1dx and know there are things my leica cannot keep up with to the same standard. Whilst the IQ will be better it surely won't matter to the client.

It's hard to know if I should start selling up my gear to purchase more practical equipment. Maybe I will be happier without the weight of each purchase costing £3-4k, maybe I will miss the image quality I have grown to love.

Perhaps a pair of A9 lenses and a hassleblad x1d as a personal awesome camera will do it all for me..

My decisions are clouded with pride and I don't know what to do anymore..
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First thing I would ask myself is whilst clients may not tell the difference would you be happy delivering something that you believe is below par? This is an individual thing, but I'm the sort of person who is very conscientious about things like this and if the end result doesn't please me or I don't think it's up to standard I wouldn't be happy passing it onto a client even if they couldn't tell. This is very personal though.

As for the Sony's have you looked through enough images to know if you'd be happy with the end result? Sony colours aren't the best and it could take a lot of work in PP to get skin tones etc how you like. I'm not saying that it can't be done obviously as I've seen a number where the colours are great, BUT it could take a lot of work getting a preset that works across a broad range.

The next thing I would consider is this pin striping. Now whilst it's a bit of a storm in a tea cup and I'm sure the chances of it happening are very remote how would you feel if it did happen to occur on the shot of a bride walking down the aisle, or the confetti shot, bouquet throwing shot etc. You can't go back and re-shoot. I must stress that the chance of this would be EXTREMELY slim, but there's a chance.

IF it was me I would be looking at the D850. Top level IQ without the worry of potential artefacts, and (for most) better colours out the box. Top level AF system, fast enough FPS (especially with the grip) although obviously not as fast as the SL or A9, large buffer, and the choice of lossless compressed to keep the file size to a reasonable level. For the times that you do need it it has silent shutter mode, although clearly this won't be as snappy as the A9. You could the keep the Leica Q for street.

Regarding the silent shutter I must admit I don't get all the hype tbh. Yes I can see the benefit at times, but is it a deal breaker? Since silent shutters have come out it's like shutter noise in enemy number one and it's an absolute faux pas, yes cameras have created shutter noise since day one and no-one's batted an eyelid until now. For what it's worth, the D850's shutter is noticeably quieter than the D750, although not as quiet as the D810. The D5 shutter is even louder than the D750.
 
I did paint myself into a corner with the leica gear.

If the sl2 came out with decent c-af, low light focusing and better buffer, then I'd not have such a problem.

Im going to get a couple of a9's, zooms and a couple of primes. My new workforce.

Although I'm still slightly open to canikon options. Just I am wondering why when the A9 offers silent eye tracking continuous autofocus.

Then I can decide how much I miss using the leica gear and whether I want to sell any.
 
Why don’t you buy one A9/lenses and see how you get on with it before you go all out? I know money isn’t really an object but I think anyone would struggle to justify a £3k loss across just the 2 bodies in a matter of weeks.

You’ve clearly committed yourself to Leica and bought the contents of the sweet shop only to find that it doesn’t all make you happy so maybe don’t do the same with Sony.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Why don’t you buy one A9/lenses and see how you get on with it before you go all out? I know money isn’t really an object but I think anyone would struggle to justify a £3k loss across just the 2 bodies in a matter of weeks.

You’ve clearly committed yourself to Leica and bought the contents of the sweet shop only to find that it doesn’t all make you happy so maybe don’t do the same with Sony.
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I think this is sound advice, buy one and see how you get on?
 
Forgot to add. My head would go along with Snerkler’s suggestion and go CaNikon for consistent results and proven lenses etc. The lure of the A9 and its bells and whistles is strong but you’ve already proven that you don’t need 20fps and blackout free EVF to deliver excellent portrait results with the Canon gear you had several kit revisions ago.
 
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Whenever a beginner asks the question "Should I upgrade"; the answer is always posed as a question back "Do you you think your current equipment is limiting your photography?"

It sounds to me that you already know the answer - Yes, your SL is limiting your photography and causing you to miss shots.

Your M10 and Q are not the problem - the SL is. So keep both of them (or at least one) as you enjoy using them.

You then talk about quality and getting a pair Sony A9 - while the A9 is technologically clever; if buying two bodies would an A9 matched with an A7RIII perhaps be even better?
 
Sonys marketing machine is working very well for them these days, advertising things that won't much change the results you get, 4k, eye AF, silent shutter, just look at the percentage of A9 users on this forum that shoot and make money from it. None afaik. Yet there are plenty of pros still using regular old cameras and making a very nice living from it, it doesn't seem like they feel they are missing out.
 
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twist said:
Sonys marketing machine is working very well for them these days, advertising things that won't much change the results you get, 4k, eye AF, silent shutter, just look at the percentage of A9 users on this forum that shoot and make money from it. None afaik. Yet there are plenty of pros still using regular old cameras and making a very nice living from it, it doesn't seem like they feel they are missing out.
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This is the key point. If you're buying new kit as a business decision, choose the kit that gets out of your way and lets you deliver the results for the clients. Spending the best part of £15k on gear for features that you can definitely live without doesn't make much business sense. Sell the shiny shiny Leica SL/lenses as it doesn't perform any better (AF at least) than a mk1 A7, sell the M10 if you don't get on with manual focusing as that's always going to be a hindrance if that's the case and keep the Q as your walkabout/street camera. After that, look at all of the options and purchase accordingly.
 
I use photography work not to make a living but to pay for the camera gear I enjoy using personally.

Which probably helped me into this mess :)

The A9 would be nice for street, shooting discreetly in close quarters and nailing face focus better than my leica Q. Alsothe flip screen allows for waist height composing.

If I did go for canikon, I guess I'd pick two different bodies.

D5+d850
5dm4+1dx2
 
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dancook said:
I use photography work not to make a living but to pay for the camera gear I enjoy using personally.

Which probably helped me into this mess :)

The A9 would be nice for street, shooting discreetly in close quarters and nailing face focus better than my leica Q. Alsothe flip screen allows for waist height composing.

If I did go for canikon, I guess I'd pick two different bodies.

D5+d850
5dm4+1dx2
Click to expand...
With the way you're talking I think you just need to get the A9 out of your system ;) Buy one, see how you like it and then take it from there.
twist said:
Sonys marketing machine is working very well for them these days, advertising things that won't much change the results you get, 4k, eye AF, silent shutter, just look at the percentage of A9 users on this forum that shoot and make money from it. None afaik. Yet there are plenty of pros still using regular old cameras and making a very nice living from it, it doesn't seem like they feel they are missing out.
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They've been learning from Apple ;)
 
dancook said:
I used photography work not to make a living but to pay for the camera gear I enjoy using personally.

Which probably helped me into this mess :)

The A9 would be nice for street, shooting discreetly in close quarters and nailing face focus better than my leica Q. Alsothe flip screen allows for waist height composing.

If I did go for canikon, I guess I'd pick two different bodies.

D5+d850
5dm4+1dx2
Click to expand...

Ok, looking at your CaNikon choices, are you planning to shoot enough high level sports (not the school sports days you mentioned earlier in another thread) to need the pro sports cameras? Again, I'm not peeing on your parade, just looking at your kit coldly as a business decision. What is it the 5Div won't do that you need a 1Dx for? Obviously the AF from the 1D in fast sports situations will be superior but are you going to miss shots from what you're covering if you 'only' have the 5Div AF?

Alternatively, what does the 5Div give you that a 1DX won't?
 
stevelmx5 said:
Ok, looking at your CaNikon choices, are you planning to shoot enough high level sports (not the school sports days you mentioned earlier in another thread) to need the pro sports cameras? Again, I'm not peeing on your parade, just looking at your kit coldly as a business decision. What is it the 5Div won't do that you need a 1Dx for? Obviously the AF from the 1D in fast sports situations will be superior but are you going to miss shots from what you're covering if you 'only' have the 5Div AF?

Alternatively, what does the 5Div give you that a 1DX won't?
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Really there is just one event I'm focused on for speed, tracking and buffer.

That's the fashion walk.

2 hours long, with no down time. A mixture of dances in coloured lighting and 'models' walking directly towards the camera at the end of the stage.

I need to get two shots of each girl, walking and posed. Half these girls just want to get off the stage. So you need continuous autofocus and the buffer to keep up with a stream of girls combined with how many shots you take to ensure you got the two you need.

The previous photographer and friend set the bar high here he used his 1dx over his 5dm4, maybe the 5dm4 could be fine.. But every step down from the 1dx is a risk and I don't get a second chance.
 
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dancook said:
Really there is just one event I'm focused on for speed, tracking and buffer.

That's the fashion walk.

2 hours long, with no down time. A mixture of dances in coloured lighting and 'models' walking directly towards the camera at the end of the stage.

I need to get two shots of each girl, walking and posed. Half these girls just want to get off the stage. So you need continuous autofocus and the buffer to keep up with a stream of girls combined with how many shots you take to ensure you got the two you need.

The previous photographer and friend set the bar high here, maybe the 5dm4 could be fine.. But every step down from the 1dx is a risk and I don't get a second chance.
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If you're not going to be completely happy with using the 5Div, get a 1DX. I reckon you'd be fine with the 5D but it's what's in your head that's going to make the difference in this particular case. Alternatively, would there be in any benefit in hiring a 1DX for that specific event?
 
You've largely not answered the most important question. What are you using the camera for and what is your paid work?

You've mentioned catwalk photography as one thing. Its not a surprise you are struggling with Leicas. And why would you even consider a Sony for professional work?

There are many reasons that if I stand at a big fashion event at the end of the runway with a dozen other photographers around me largely all I see is 1dxs, the occasional Nikon D800 and the photographers which are more obviously inexperienced junior photographers by their mannerisms with something like a 5d. Very occasionally you'll see someone with clearly no idea what they are doing, sweating, chimping, panic written all over their face using something like a Sony.

Unlike so many hobbyist / junior photographers want to think I, like most pro photographers don't judge or care about what camera others have. But through years f experience I can tell the junior photographers apart in moments just from the way they conduct themselves, things they say and so forth. And through experience, and not any kind of prejudice there is a correlation to what cameras they have. And yes I will see clearly inexperienced photographers with a 1dx....
 
stevelmx5 said:
If you're not going to be completely happy with using the 5Div, get a 1DX. I reckon you'd be fine with the 5D but it's what's in your head that's going to make the difference in this particular case. Alternatively, would there be in any benefit in hiring a 1DX for that specific event?
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This is why I get back round to the A9. The 1dx is large, heavy, noisy.. The A9 is not and has comparable Af, and seems ideal in other scenarios too, like theatre and music performances.
 
dancook said:
Really there is just one event I'm focused on for speed, tracking and buffer.

That's the fashion walk.

2 hours long, with no down time. A mixture of dances in coloured lighting and 'models' walking directly towards the camera at the end of the stage.

I need to get two shots of each girl, walking and posed. Half these girls just want to get off the stage. So you need continuous autofocus and the buffer to keep up with a stream of girls combined with how many shots you take to ensure you got the two you need.

The previous photographer and friend set the bar high here he used his 1dx over his 5dm4, maybe the 5dm4 could be fine.. But every step down from the 1dx is a risk and I don't get a second chance.
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Nikon highlight weighted metering would be ideal for an event like this ;)
 
dancook said:
Really there is just one event I'm focused on for speed, tracking and buffer.

That's the fashion walk.

2 hours long, with no down time. A mixture of dances in coloured lighting and 'models' walking directly towards the camera at the end of the stage.

I need to get two shots of each girl, walking and posed. Half these girls just want to get off the stage. So you need continuous autofocus and the buffer to keep up with a stream of girls combined with how many shots you take to ensure you got the two you need.

The previous photographer and friend set the bar high here, maybe the 5dm4 could be fine.. But every step down from the 1dx is a risk and I don't get a second chance.
Click to expand...

Better be sure the A9 doesn't exhibit banding in that lighting or you're down to 5fps. I thought the 5div has the same AF as a 1dx.
 
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dancook said:
The previous photographer and friend set the bar high here he used his 1dx over his 5dm4, maybe the 5dm4 could be fine.. But every step down from the 1dx is a risk and I don't get a second chance.
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With respect Dan ... I think you've decided you want the Sony A9 and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. Nothing wrong with that (and its your money) but you're here looking for validation more than anything?

I don't know (but suspect) there was probably similar discussion when you were considering the SL?

PS. I acknowledge I'm probably guilty of this kind of behaviour too ... had a long discussion over D7200 vs D610 vs D750 12 months back kind of KNOWING I wanted a D750.
 
The OP is confusing a Business decision with a Personal one - remove the emotion and it'll become far more obvious what to do

I suspect that'll be the A9 route, if only for the silence, the IQ of pretty much anything 'pro' these days is easily up to even a fussy client's requirements

So ditch the sentiment and by the tools you need rather than lust after

Dave
 
riddell said:
You've largely not answered the most important question. What are you using the camera for and what is your paid work?
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Weddings
Theatre dress rehearsals + live performances
Choir / Orchestral live performances
Awards Ceremonies / General Event type work
School Sports Days
Portraiture / Stock Photography
 
DG Phototraining said:
The OP is confusing a Business decision with a Personal one - remove the emotion and it'll become far more obvious what to do

I suspect that'll be the A9 route, if only for the silence, the IQ of pretty much anything 'pro' these days is easily up to even a fussy client's requirements

So ditch the sentiment and by the tools you need rather than lust after

Dave
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You suspect the A9 because you don't think I can remove emotion and I'll make a personal decision or because you think it's a viable business decision?

Followed by the benefit of silence, I'm just not clear :)
 
dancook said:
You suspect the A9 because you don't think I can remove emotion and I'll make a personal decision or because you think it's a viable business decision?

Followed by the benefit of silence, I'm just not clear :)
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Well, if this helps, one of my best buddies recently sold all his Nikon gear and bought 2x A9s and a load of lenses - he's thrilled to bits with them in use and the IQ he gets

Another pal recently sold all his Nikon gear and bought 2x A9s and a load of lenses - he's thrilled to bits with them in use and the IQ he gets

Two of my Lakes' competitors that I chat to a bit BOTH recently sold all their Canon gear and bought 2x A9s and a load of lenses - they are both thrilled to bits with them in use and the IQ they get

If I had the spare cash to splash I'd go A9 too, but its just not sensible for me at this time - that's the business head talking, the heart wants to jump ship too

Losing the loved Leicas will hurt, but the benefits of doing so outweigh any such pain for me, and you may just love the Sony in time too :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Well, if this helps, one of my best buddies recently sold all his Nikon gear and bought 2x A9s and a load of lenses - he's thrilled to bits with them in use and the IQ he gets

Another pal recently sold all his Nikon gear and bought 2x A9s and a load of lenses - he's thrilled to bits with them in use and the IQ he gets

Two of my Lakes' competitors that I chat to a bit BOTH recently sold all their Canon gear and bought 2x A9s and a load of lenses - they are both thrilled to bits with them in use and the IQ they get

If I had the spare cash to splash I'd go A9 too, but its just not sensible for me at this time - that's the business head talking, the heart wants to jump ship too

Losing the loved Leicas will hurt, but the benefits of doing so outweigh any such pain for me, and you may just love the Sony in time too :)

Dave
Click to expand...

The great Dave has spoken - look at all that validation ;)
 
dancook said:
The great Dave has spoken - look at all that validation ;)
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Google "Sony A9 Wedding Reviews" ..... some great reviews out there by real-world wedding/event photographers.....
I think you will need to scratch the Sony A9 itch ..... :D dribble dribble.
 
With regards to potential banding in artificial light, I can suck it up and use mechanical shutter at these times - I don't need to machine gun these events and the AF works just as well in mechanical shutter mode.

Riz_Guru said:
Google "Sony A9 Wedding Reviews" ..... some great reviews out there by real-world wedding/event photographers.....
I think you will need to scratch the Sony A9 itch ..... :D dribble dribble.
Click to expand...

I know, and I favour the six months on reviews as well - so I can understand the negatives too.
 
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