Cost of living possible cure

[AndrewFlannigan]

switching to the grid will be horrific with the insane electricity prices and not even practical/possible on many sites.

This problem has its roots in the religion of climate change which got into full swing before the pandemic hit.

If only we had politicians with some form of intelligence, who could understand that they were dealing with two separate things: the reality of a climate which is always changing and the fantasy that the change was caused by human action and something that could be stopped by human action.

Canute (allegedly) tried to make this point a thousand years ago but too few people understood it then and too few people seem to get it now.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Been thinking this myself. I remember seeing some nonsense about the ban of red being to encourage more environmentally friendly options, but what EV alternatives are there with heavy plant? I think there's an EV excavator prototype being trialled in Europe, but there's a huge variety of excavators, material movers, shovels etc and then there are diesel generators - switching to the grid will be horrific with the insane electricity prices and not even practical/possible on many sites.

What other major product changes price as often as fuel? Why is there no cap on fuel prices? I don't think there's any regulator/oversight either (i.e. like Ofgen).

You've made some valid points, the fact remains that however much the environmentalists who drive their electric cars and ride their bikes in cities may ignore the reality, there are currently no alternatives to diesel in those industries (including farming) that need to operate heavy plant.

There's talk, promises and even prototypes, but no actual products, and even if the products actually existed, and even if they are affordable when they do happen, there's no infrastructure either.

On the first day of the Ukraine war the crude oil price was $122 per barrel and I paid £1.53 per litre for my car diesel and last Friday it had gone UP to £1.83 per litre but the crude price had gone DOWN to $112. And that's after the theoretical reduction of 6p per litre that should have happened when HMG temporarily reduced the fuel duty by 5p, so a real-time increase of 86p litre.

Of course, these same fantasists would say that I'm to blame for driving a diesel car, Just point me to an electric car (or even a petrol one) that can tow 3 1/2 tons

 

[gman]

You've made some valid points, the fact remains that however much the environmentalists who drive their electric cars and ride their bikes in cities may ignore the reality, there are currently no alternatives to diesel in those industries (including farming) that need to operate heavy plant.

There's talk, promises and even prototypes, but no actual products, and even if the products actually existed, and even if they are affordable when they do happen, there's no infrastructure either.

On the first day of the Ukraine war the crude oil price was $122 per barrel and I paid £1.53 per litre for my car diesel and last Friday it had gone UP to £1.83 per litre but the crude price had gone DOWN to $112. And that's after the theoretical reduction of 6p per litre that should have happened when HMG temporarily reduced the fuel duty by 5p, so a real-time increase of 86p litre.

Of course, these same fantasists would say that I'm to blame for driving a diesel car, Just point me to an electric car (or even a petrol one) that can tow 3 1/2 tons

It's just ridiculous how the pump price has gone up and what's worse is how we all just seem to accept it. Is it the "stiff upper lip" crap or something? Because if so then that's just going to be taken full advantage of. I paid £1.749 per litre (99 RON) on Sat 14th May, then eight days later on Sun 22 May it was £1.859 per litre. What has possibly changed in 8 days to create such a massive increase?

And massive it is, because in past times a few pence would cause outrage, yet now we all just seem to accept these huge fluctuations - with the war in Ukraine being a rather convenient excuse, but I'm not convinced. Something doesn't feel right.

I get that global markets and pricing effects things, but it still feels incredibly wrong that petrol costs so much when there's a huge refinery less than an hour away.

 

[Cobra]

the fact remains that however much the environmentalists who drive their electric cars and ride their bikes in cities may ignore the reality,

And the fact remains they really have no idea how the "rural" communities actually work. I remember when there was an influx, to more rural areas, some years ago of the so called YUPPIES, and the complaints to the local council of the smell & sight of pigs from their windows, the sounds of cocks crowing and more.

It's just ridiculous how the pump price has gone up and what's worse is how we all just seem to accept it. Is it the "stiff upper lip" crap or something?

Yep, and I remember when a couple of pence on a liter made the news.
It seems we just prefer to bend over and take it up the ass rather than make a fuss these days.

with the war in Ukraine being a rather convenient excuse, but I'm not convinced. Something doesn't feel right.

I totally agree, it seems these days its any excuse for inflated prices.

 

[the black fox]

Remember when stanlow refinery was brought to a standstill over prices , the farmer in charge was fairly local to me and I knew his brother very well .the protest ended but few people know that he was bought off with a mix of cash and incentives plus threats ..
beware the men in black

 

[Pound Coin]

This problem has its roots in the religion of climate change which got into full swing before the pandemic hit.

If only we had politicians with some form of intelligence, who could understand that they were dealing with two separate things: the reality of a climate which is always changing and the fantasy that the change was caused by human action and something that could be stopped by human action.

Canute (allegedly) tried to make this point a thousand years ago but too few people understood it then and too few people seem to get it now.

I see you are trotting out the same, previously debunked, stuff.

Climate hasn't changed this fast before, except after a major catastrophe.

We are making climate change, and we are heading towards a catastrophe. Future generations will rue our profligacy and selfish approach to resource use. If there are future generations.

 

[gman]

Just topped up, it's now £1.89 per litre. Getting ridiculous.

 

[bass_junkie83]

Been thinking this myself. I remember seeing some nonsense about the ban of red being to encourage more environmentally friendly options, but what EV alternatives are there with heavy plant? I think there's an EV excavator prototype being trialled in Europe, but there's a huge variety of excavators, material movers, shovels etc and then there are diesel generators - switching to the grid will be horrific with the insane electricity prices and not even practical/possible on many sites.

What other major product changes price as often as fuel? Why is there no cap on fuel prices? I don't think there's any regulator/oversight either (i.e. like Ofgen).

Electric construction machinery has come a long way, obviously a long way to go and will take some time before it becomes widespread.

One of the HS2 sites is already diesel free. Electric crawler crane and bio-fuel for everything else. Two more electric cranes on other sites.

View: https://youtu.be/GwWJWcGY_lU


Vovlo seem to have a reasonable range of smaller machines.

Our electromobility journey | Volvo Construction Equipment Global

The world depends on our ability to contribute to growth while reducing our climate footprint. Our electric solutions hold the key to maintaining high productivity with zero emissions.

www.volvoce.com

Oslo has been doing some small scale pilots of zero-emission construction sites.

Major cities make push on electric construction equipment

What role are major cities playing in the switch to electric or low-emission construction equipment?

www.construction-europe.com

 

[gman]

Electric construction machinery has come a long way, obviously a long way to go and will take some time before it becomes widespread.

One of the HS2 sites is already diesel free. Electric crawler crane and bio-fuel for everything else. Two more electric cranes on other sites.

View: https://youtu.be/GwWJWcGY_lU


Vovlo seem to have a reasonable range of smaller machines.

Our electromobility journey | Volvo Construction Equipment Global

The world depends on our ability to contribute to growth while reducing our climate footprint. Our electric solutions hold the key to maintaining high productivity with zero emissions.

www.volvoce.com

Oslo has been doing some small scale pilots of zero-emission construction sites.

Major cities make push on electric construction equipment

What role are major cities playing in the switch to electric or low-emission construction equipment?

www.construction-europe.com

This is very small plant, even a medium waste management site needs heavy plant never mind the bigger sites. It is heading in the right direction, there's no doubt about that, but my point is that maybe they should wait until the alternatives are ready and affordable before imposing new costly legislation?

 

[Pound Coin]

Costly legislation does concentrate directors minds, and those of shareholders too...

 

[JonathanRyan]

yup reasonable one that
think also a £1 supermarket visit tax
so each time you go to a major supermarket at the till you pay £1 on top of your bill
this would encourage people to do more each visit and cut down on the amount of short journeys to pop for a pint of milk and a tin of spam

So you're saying we should tax the poor?

I mean that fits perfectly with most other government policies so I bet Mr Sunak will be interested to hear your proposal.

 

[Dave Canon]

And massive it is, because in past times a few pence would cause outrage, yet now we all just seem to accept these huge fluctuations - with the war in Ukraine being a rather convenient excuse, but I'm not convinced. Something doesn't feel right.

Up to recent events the World has been buying 12% of its oil from Russia. Clearly removing such a large quantity from the market causes a serious problem. The effect of a shortage when the demand is the same is that prices go up (a lot more than 12%). The richer countries will pay more rather than go without which probably disproportionally increases prices. In order for prices to fall again, it needs other producers to increase their output, or the consumers to use less and reduce demand to match the supply. It is OK for us to bemoan how much we have to pay but there are parts of the world that will really suffer. The lack of Ukranian food exports are probably more critical but without the west stepping in and driving the Russian away (which would probably cause a nuclear war), there is little else to do but try to help those countries which cannot afford the high food prices. Of course the Energy companies still make a large profit but would no doubt prefer to do so at lower prices as they are now likely to have to pay new taxes.

Dave

 

[Garry Edwards]

Up to recent events the World has been buying 12% of its oil from Russia. Clearly removing such a large quantity from the market causes a serious problem. The effect of a shortage when the demand is the same is that prices go up (a lot more than 12%). The richer countries will pay more rather than go without which probably disproportionally increases prices. In order for prices to fall again, it needs other producers to increase their output, or the consumers to use less and reduce demand to match the supply. It is OK for us to bemoan how much we have to pay but there are parts of the world that will really suffer. The lack of Ukranian food exports are probably more critical but without the west stepping in and driving the Russian away (which would probably cause a nuclear war), there is little else to do but try to help those countries which cannot afford the high food prices. Of course the Energy companies still make a large profit but would no doubt prefer to do so at lower prices as they are now likely to have to pay new taxes.

Dave

I think that most of us have a basic grasp of economics and what you say would make perfect sense if only it was true.

But it isn't because, although politicians and large businesses tell the public what they want to hear, the reality is that little if anything has been done to stop the Russian oil imports. It may or may not happen at some point in the future but, right now, nothing much has changed, crude oil prices are in fact down and there are no supply problems.

 

[Cobra]

right now, nothing much has changed, crude oil prices are in fact down and there are no supply problems.

Same old same old.
Fuel price increases are implements immediately,
despite the fact there are millions of gallons in stock, at the terminals and garages country wide, bought at the old prices.

 

[Dave Canon]

Same old same old.
Fuel price increases are implements immediately,
despite the fact there are millions of gallons in stock, at the terminals and garages country wide, bought at the old prices.

The same with panic buying. The items run out due to panic buying rather than real shortages. Nevertheless the prices of crude oil etc have risen from 22.47 $ per barrel a couple of years ago and up to 117 $ recently. Ok so it has dropped back to 110 $ but that is not going to make much difference. The prices at the retail outlet are always going to reflect the current prices the oil companies expect to pay. I believe the buying and selling are based on the seller getting the best price they can like other commodities. Some of the comments seem to suggest that there is some underlying conspiracy! Yes, the oil companies still price to make a profit. This seems to have resulted in a windfall for the companies which will be taken by a windfall tax. What is this conspiracy?

Dave