copyright

P

pirateship

Suspended / Banned
Messages
17
Edit My Images
No
Hi, I'm a newbie so be gentle! :help:

Okay so I'm a wedding photographer (in addition to portrait and commercial). I have been for 8 years now. Love it.

However, a wedding florist has now been in touch to insist that I do not use any photographs that have her work in them.

This is pretty much impossible for me as obviously brides hold bouquets! :bang:

I believe, and said as much, that the taker of the photographs holds copyright and therefore can use the photographs as they wish (in bride's albums, in marketing material etc). :rules:

Said florist is now threatening legal action. I am ignoring all her emails now.

She is related to a neighbour of mine who is giving me grief, so I think it's all connected.

Has anyone had any experience of this and/or any advice?
 
The florist is not going to be in business very long if she stops all photographers taking shot with her work in. This is something you could point out to her, if she says it's only you then I would think that's victimization.

Make sure your prospective clients know that if they use the said florist then they will be unable to get any professional photographer to cover the wedding due to the florist actions.
 
The only way you'd be in breach of copyright would be if

There was a recognisable trademark (ie Coca Cola) or the photo was of an already copyright unique work (such as a painting).

Just ask her to explain this one to her clients, "yes, I'll sell you a bouquet, no it can't be in your photos". I'd feel fairly safe knowing you can use your photos without worry from the florist
 
That's a good idea actually about telling clients who book me...

Yes its just me she has a problem with, there are local venues etc who all use images of her photographs without seemingly any issues.

Another question, if she used one of my images, such as taking an image of her flowers that I took and put on my website, and then putting that image on her own site, what could I do?
 
1st of all make sure all you imaged are copyrighted then you could charge her for the use, legally

have a browse throught the link I posted above- its all explained there

Les :thumbs:
 
Do you mean watermarked Lez? or registering my images? There's an awful lot of them...!

The link is good, thanks
 
True - but I always watermark with date- any image I post +only use low resolution 800 x 600 images - containing full exif, for web useage

Les :D
 
whiteflyer said:
The florist is not going to be in business very long if she stops all photographers taking shot with her work in. This is something you could point out to her, if she says it's only you then I would think that's victimization.

Make sure your prospective clients know that if they use the said florist then they will be unable to get any professional photographer to cover the wedding due to the florist actions.
Click to expand...

agree and if its in a public place he/she has no say if you photograph them, if the church allows photos then your fine,
 
In order for there to be a case, the first question would be can she claim copyright on a floral arrangement.

Section 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 states

CDPA 1988 said:
1 Copyright and copyright works.

(1) Copyright is a property right which subsists in accordance with this Part in the following descriptions of work—

(a) original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works,

(b) sound recordings, films [or broadcasts], and

(c) the typographical arrangement of published editions.

(2) In this Part “copyright work” means a work of any of those descriptions in which copyright subsists.

(3) Copyright does not subsist in a work unless the requirements of this Part with respect to qualification for copyright protection are met (see section 153 and the provisions referred to there).
Click to expand...

So, the question revolves around whether a bouquet can be regarded as an 'original ... artistic work' within the terms of the CPDA. I think it would have to be a rather special bouquet to merit that.

I'd suggest that it's more likely to be considered a "design" under the CDPA, which has protections independent of copyright which would not affect you as you're not copying the flower arrangement itself, but merely making a representation of it. Again, it would have to be a pretty special bouquet to be an original design in which design rights may subsist.

I don't think there's much precedent in case law on the point though :)

Making your clients aware of her terms would be a very good tactic IMO.

Notwithstanding all of the above, if she's using your photos on her web site, then it's still an infringement if you've not granted her permission.
 
Last edited:
She's talking rubbish. On two counts.

First of all, the bouquet is not the only part of the subject, or even the main part. Copyright doesn't even apply in that circumstance, it's just an incidental inclusion.

Secondly, you would only be infinging her copyright if you made a 'copy' of her bouquet, ie a 3D replica of her unique design, such as if a rival florist copied her (unique and original) designs, she would have a claim. But a photograph can never be a copy in that sense and it's actually quite hard to infinge copyright on scultures and things like that (or clothes, or architecture etc) because the photograph consitutes a new, original and completely different art work in its own right.

If you took close up pictures of her work (which is the 'design' rather than the actual flowers - she didn't make them!) and tried to sell them as framed prints or something, basically trying to cash in on her art, she might have a marginal claim of sorts, but what kind of 'loss' would she claim compensation for? She'd need a good lawyer to swing that past a jury and I suspect the worst you'd get is an order to stop doing it. Courts are not stupid and copyright exists to protect the interests of the artist; if they think you're cashing in unfairly you'll get slapped, but if she has some ulterior motive or is just being daft, they'll see through that and tell her to take a hike. Just tell her to take legal advice and stop being stupid.
 
Last edited:
I know the law can be an ass... but I really cant see any lawyer worth his salt backing her up.. she makes wedding flowers but doesnt want them to appear on wedding pictures...and only one photogrpahers wedding pictures... Surely if she allows them on other wedding pictures she has killed any case she thinks she has..

I know its easy for others to say so this isn't meant as advice to you.. But I would personaly 100% call her bluff.
 
Thanks for all the additional advice, very useful and helpful. What I am doing is just ignoring her emails and if she wants to waste her money going to a lawyer she can! I just wanted to know people's thoughts and to see if anyone had had similar experiences.

I really should have said that said florist is very good friends with another wedding photographer (who I'm not friendly with, just dont really know him thats all) anyway you'd think as a result of that friendship she'd know about copyright then eh??
 
pirateship said:
Thanks for all the additional advice, very useful and helpful. What I am doing is just ignoring her emails and if she wants to waste her money going to a lawyer she can! I just wanted to know people's thoughts and to see if anyone had had similar experiences.

I really should have said that said florist is very good friends with another wedding photographer (who I'm not friendly with, just dont really know him thats all) anyway you'd think as a result of that friendship she'd know about copyright then eh??
Click to expand...

That sounds like a little bit self protection. She reccomends her customers use photographer X he does the same for her.
 
Dear Sir/Madam,
It has come to my attention, with your communication to myself, that you insist that I refrain from taking any image of your floral arrangements in the weddings that I am commissioned to photograph.
I would like to make it clear that you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge in copyright law. My taking of photographs at a wedding, of which, the bride, groom and their wedding party, along with the usual ceromony customs, are the main feature of the photographs. It is with this in mind, along with your victimisation of me as a photographer, I request you cease your triade of ill mannered and incorrect communications with me.

I would like to point out to you that if you continue with your victimisation upon me, I will pursue you in court for 'potential' loss of earnings, defamation of character and associated costs.

If you have a personal grudge against me, for whatever reason, I would like to invite you to discuss this matter so we can bring it to a close.

It is with the above writings that I would ask you to cease and desist from asking me to stop doing the job I am employed to do, which has no harm or loss to you or your business.

Kind regards,

Blah Blah.......


Send it on, carry on. :thumbs:

Phil.
 
phil8139 said:
Dear Sir/Madam,
It has come to my attention, with your communication to myself, that you insist that I refrain from taking any image of your floral arrangements in the weddings that I am commissioned to photograph.
I would like to make it clear that you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge in copyright law. My taking of photographs at a wedding, of which, the bride, groom and their wedding party, along with the usual ceromony customs, are the main feature of the photographs. It is with this in mind, along with your victimisation of me as a photographer, I request you cease your triade of ill mannered and incorrect communications with me.

I would like to point out to you that if you continue with your victimisation upon me, I will pursue you in court for 'potential' loss of earnings, defamation of character and associated costs.

If you have a personal grudge against me, for whatever reason, I would like to invite you to discuss this matter so we can bring it to a close.

It is with the above writings that I would ask you to cease and desist from asking me to stop doing the job I am employed to do, which has no harm or loss to you or your business.

Kind regards,

Blah Blah.......


COME ON THEN IF YOU THINK YOU'RE HARD ENOUGH !!!

Fixed it for you :D
Click to expand...
 
jon ryan said:
phil8139 said:
Dear Sir/Madam,
It has come to my attention, with your communication to myself, that you insist that I refrain from taking any image of your floral arrangements in the weddings that I am commissioned to photograph.
I would like to make it clear that you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge in copyright law. My taking of photographs at a wedding, of which, the bride, groom and their wedding party, along with the usual ceromony customs, are the main feature of the photographs. It is with this in mind, along with your victimisation of me as a photographer, I request you cease your triade of ill mannered and incorrect communications with me.

I would like to point out to you that if you continue with your victimisation upon me, I will pursue you in court for 'potential' loss of earnings, defamation of character and associated costs.

If you have a personal grudge against me, for whatever reason, I would like to invite you to discuss this matter so we can bring it to a close.

It is with the above writings that I would ask you to cease and desist from asking me to stop doing the job I am employed to do, which has no harm or loss to you or your business.

Kind regards,

Blah Blah.......


COME ON THEN IF YOU THINK YOU'RE HARD ENOUGH !!!

Fixed it for you :D
Click to expand...

rofl, if you sent that with the scored out part it would be total comedy genius :lol:
Click to expand...
 
I like the diplomatic route first, then I kick the door in. It's nice to be nice till someone perssiiss me off ;)
 
Just Dave said:
why :thinking::shrug:

some things can be personal experience so NO
Click to expand...

I think the point is that, if you have something to share with a member that would be of benefit to the discussion, then why not share it in thread rather than PM. If that information is of a personal nature, then by all means PM them but why say "you have PM" in the thread? People are notified one way or another when they have received a PM so stating so in thread will only serve to make others feel they are missing out on something.
 
fabs said:
I think the point is that, if you have something to share with a member that would be of benefit to the discussion, then why not share it in thread rather than PM. If that information is of a personal nature, then by all means PM them but why say "you have PM" in the thread? People are notified one way or another when they have received a PM so stating so in thread will only serve to make others feel they are missing out on something.
Click to expand...

What he said
 
KIPAX said:
Surely if she allows them on other wedding pictures she has killed any case she thinks she has..
Click to expand...

That's an excellent point, to make any sort of claim she would have to had tried to stop EVERY photograph of the flower design.
 
How are you supposed to know it is her arrangements at a wedding venue. It would be odd if you had to ask the wedding couple who did the flowers and then explain why !

You could always suggest she removes them whilst you do the photographs to avoid them being in your images. Would love to see the couples faces if she did that !
 
Phil, that letter/email is great (as is the 'fixed' version :lol:) I'm continuing to ignore her. I suspect this isn't the end of it, so I'll let you all know if I hear anything more, after all, its useful experience/knowledge/laughs to share with fellow photographers!
 
I prefer the fixed version, but feel coutesy should be used first ;)

Good luck with your journey :D
 
I get the gist that the florist is claiming that "her" copyright of an original design would be breached if the images were displayed? Putting herself on par with a major trademark is laughable. At this stage the bouquet is not the florist's property, it is the property of the bride, so there is no issue whatsoever with the OP using the pictures as agreed with the bride and groom. I don't understand the florist's problem, it's almost akin to the gown supplier, or the hairdresser, saying the same thing - seriously weird. I think the OP should just ask the florist for a deeper explanation of her reasoning. For amusement if nothing else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top