copyright question - painting

BillN_33

BillN_33

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Presumably if you bought the original artwork, (in this case a painting from the artist), you own the copyright to it and you can reproduce it in any way
 
The artist retains copyright and you may not reproduce in any way.
The artist is covered by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
 
viv1969 said:
The artist retains copyright and you may not reproduce in any way.
The artist is covered by the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
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Thanks Viv

what if the artist is dead
 
neil_g said:
err no. unless you also bought all rights to it (would probably involve a written agreement).
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so does that mean that you cannot take photographs of them for insurance purposes
 
BillN_33 said:
Thanks Viv

what if the artist is dead
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It doesn't matter. The copyright will never be yours. In fact the copyright exists in favour of the artist, or their descendants for 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the artist dies. After that it enters the public realm.

Edit...you can certainly take photos for insurance purposes.
 
still don't quite understand it

so all these paintings in say the Rijksmuseum which appear in Calendars every year …….. who gives the "rights" to the photographer/printer to use them.

I worked for a publishing company in The Netherlands in 1979/1983 and we produced "Fine Art" Calendars which were sold to the large European Companies who gave them as gifts to their customers

We employed a proffessional photographer and paid the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh for the right to use them
 
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I have no knowledge of Netherlands law. sorry; only England / Wales and some US.
I can only assume the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh had, in turn, secured the reproduction rights.
 
viv1969 said:
I have no knowledge of Netherlands law. sorry; only England / Wales and some US.
I can only assume the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh had, in turn, secured the reproduction rights.
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Thanks Viv, or Ruth, never sure of names on here

so when you go to an art exhibition in the UK are you allowed to take photographs?
 
BillN_33 said:
so when you go to an art exhibition in the UK are you allowed to take photographs?
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Yes, so long as it's not your intention to publish or reproduce them in any way.
 
viv1969 said:
Yes, so long as it's not your intention to publish or reproduce them in any way.
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But I have, on here

This for example ….. plus a few which are closer and of individual objects

stairs_1.jpg
 
I'm assuming the floaty steps are the "work of art" in question in that image?
 
My daughter wants a photography of a painting that we have - she will have it printed, frame it and put it on her wall

It may get modified in the process, (through pp in PS6), as she wants it to look slightly different than the original ……. it will be somewhat smaller than the original

Can I do this legally?
 
BillN_33 said:
they are to someone, I'm sure
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Then you're not reproducing the artwork in question as that image stands, simply an image in which that work of art appears.
 
BillN_33 said:
My daughter wants a photography of a painting that we have - she will have it printed, frame it and put it on her wall

It may get modified in the process, (through pp in PS6), as she wants it to look slightly different than the original ……. it will be somewhat smaller than the original

Can I do this legally?
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Technically, probably not but a one off for private use is unlikely to get you (or her) into too much trouble. Similarly, IIRC it's still technically illegal to rip CDs to MP3 in the UK, although there have been murmurs about a relaxation in this law recently.
 
BillN_33 said:
My daughter wants a photography of a painting that we have - she will have it printed, frame it and put it on her wall

It may get modified in the process, (through pp in PS6), as she wants it to look slightly different than the original ……. it will be somewhat smaller than the original

Can I do this legally?
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The simple answer is no, legally you can't. And I can understand how the artist would be peeved at having their work altered in that manner.
But I suppose it's down to you to decide if you're happy doing that and if the artist is likely to ever know.
 
Buying an image/painting does not give you copyright and as such you do not have the right to "reproduce" (make a copy by photographing it or otherwise). And you do not have the right to make a "derivative work" (a significantly altered copy).

As said, 70 yrs after death or 120yrs from creation (if unknown artist) it passes into the public domain and anyone can do anything with it. This is how the calendars get made... (there are peculiarities to the law regarding date of creation etc., and the laws may vary a bit by country, but the gist of it is the same)

Copyright laws are for "creative works of art" and are (basically) the same for all forms... the protections of a painting are the same as for a photograph. If you sell an original photograph have you sold your copyright as well? Can they make/sell/distribute copies? Can they edit it?

The answer is no unless otherwise specified... so why would it be any different for your painting?
 
Nod said:
Technically, probably not but a one off for private use is unlikely to get you (or her) into too much trouble. Similarly, IIRC it's still technically illegal to rip CDs to MP3 in the UK, although there have been murmurs about a relaxation in this law recently.
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I understand this was relaxed in the last week or so
 
ChasG said:
I understand this was relaxed in the last week or so
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There were some rumblings about it back in June and July, I was hoping to get a few DVDs ripped for the flights! Hadn't heard anything recently though. I'll have to do some research.
 
I am sorry I can't find it. I am sure it was in DM so it HAS to be the truth;) and was of the format "AS of today it is OK to rip off any CD you have purchased ..."
 
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Not in the UK.
 
Nuzik said:
Ripping has been legal for years. As long as you own the original.
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A lot of folk mistakenly believe it to be so. Wrongly.
 
How about when you hire a Wedding Photographer …….. we have two weddings next year ……… do they own the copyright to the images that they take.

Are you not allowed to have them copied?
 
BillN_33 said:
How about when you hire a Wedding Photographer …….. we have two weddings next year ……… do they own the copyright to the images that they take.

Are you not allowed to have them copied?
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Yes, they own the copyright.
The rest depends on the TOU's and whatever else is agreed/signed to.

*I believe* a wedding would fall under images "commissioned for personal/domestic purposes." As such the person(s) commissioning the photos has control over the display/distribution (UK). This is not "ownership," it is a limitation on the copyright owner (photographer). Most photographers will have something in their contract where you sign that right away... probably along with commercial rights (although there isn't actually any such thing in the UK).

You (UK) have an exception to copyright that allows you to make "private/personal" copies for your personal use (i.e. copies of copies you own). That does not give you the right to distribute them to anyone else.
 
sk66 said:
Yes, they own the copyright.
The rest depends on the TOU's and whatever else is agreed/signed to.

*I believe* a wedding would fall under images "commissioned for personal/domestic purposes." As such the person(s) commissioning the photos has control over the display/distribution (UK). This is not "ownership," it is a limitation on the copyright owner (photographer). Most photographers will have something in their contract where you sign that right away... probably along with commercial rights (although there isn't actually any such thing in the UK).

You (UK) have an exception to copyright that allows you to make "private/personal" copies for your personal use (i.e. copies of copies you own). That does not give you the right to distribute them to anyone else.
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Thanks Steven

So does that mean that the bride and groom cannot give copies to the family and friends?
 
Yes, that's what it means, unless that right is given in the TOU's... "typically" some rights are given in this regards; use on social media, distribution to family, whatever.

When you hire a photographer there is no reason for there not to be some negotiation. The photographer will want you/them to waive the right to privacy (the personal/domestic limitation) so they can use the images for promotion (blog/portfolio/whatever); and they'll probably want you/them to agree to the possible commercial sale of the images (not entirely required). There's no reason a small amount of "copy/distribute" couldn't be negotiated if it's not already included.

But remember... what allows a photographer to survive is "the whole package," and for many that includes additional prints for additional family members.

On the other side of this is photographers who give "all images with full rights." In that case you can do anything you want with the images. I'm torn on this practice in regards to wedding/personal images... The only thing I can say regarding it fairly certainly is that any photographer doing so probably hasn't been in the business that long (but photographers not doing so may not be in the business that much longer...).
 
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Thanks Steven …… strange world

so if I pay a photographer to take a photograph of me I am not allowed to give a copy to anyone without the permission of the photographer

and

it's almost got to the stage that if I walk through the street singing a Beatles song I should ask their permission and pay them a royalty
 
BillN_33 said:
Thanks Steven …… strange world

so if I pay a photographer to take a photograph of me I am not allowed to give a copy to anyone without the permission of the photographer

and

it's almost got to the stage that if I walk through the street singing a Beatles song I should ask their permission and pay them a royalty
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Actually, if you hand your camera to a stranger and ask them to take your photo then they probably own the image/copyright. And if you sing the traditional (USA) "happy birthday" song you technically need to pay to do so...

But, it's these same laws that (are supposed to) protect your images from being abused by others... You can't have it both ways...
 
BillN_33 said:
How about when you hire a Wedding Photographer …….. we have two weddings next year ……… do they own the copyright to the images that they take.

Are you not allowed to have them copied?
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Yes they do normally. But normally I'll include a licence to do pretty much what you want with the images as long as its on a non commercial basis. That includes copying
 
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