Copyright dilemma

JumboBeef

JumboBeef

Suspended / Banned
Messages
978
Edit My Images
Yes
Hello all,

Whilst working yesterday, I meet the big cheese of a local group of businesses. In short, he would like us to take some photographs of a certain part of one of his locations (very busy tourist area).

Plus side:

Confirmed job, quite a big job with possibilities of more.
he is well connected, so could well be a knock on with other work.

Negative side:

He wants to own the copyright.

Now, if I say yes, he will own the photos and can do what he wants (including supplying them to others he knows in the tourist sector).

If I say no, then that is that. No job, and I couldn't take the photos anyway without his permission as I would need to be on his land.

So, to the questions:

Should I agree to do the job and sell the copyright (remember, if I do not agree, then no job) or should I walk away (and no doubt someone else will get the order).

If I do agree, how much should I charge?

If I take two photographs, just slightly re-framed, could I sell him the copyright for one and keep the other for myself?

Thanks!
 
Ah, could a mod please correct my spelling of 'copyright' in the title of the first post please! :gag: :lol:
 
Depends on how much he is willing to pay you. Are you likely to able to sell additional copies of the image. If not then it's a moot point. If they are willing to pay a reasonable amount for the copyright, well it's your decision

You could always offere a limited use agreement, whereby they can use the images them selves for Advertising , promotion and similar, but you retain the overall ownership of the image.
 
The possibility of future work doesn't pay the bills. If he wants the copyright give him a quote for it. It'll scare him I bet. Yes there is a chance that you might not get the commission but if you do you won't be able to use the images, if you don't you won't be able to either. I never sell my copyright unless the client is willing to pay a lot. Any future work will probably be under the same terms too so you'll won't be able to use anything.
 
Could you not come to some agreement were he pays for the copyright for the images he wants to use and you keep the copy right on the other images to do what you want with?
 
Difficult one. Selling the copyright takes away your ability to earn anymore money from these images. So you need to decide what they're worth to you. I personally see no problem with selling the copyright if you get a good price.

JumboBeef said:
If I take two photographs, just slightly re-framed, could I sell him the copyright for one and keep the other for myself?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Can't see a problem with this as long as you're only selling the copyright of each individual photo and not as a job lot.

You could try and negotiate a royalty free sale? They can do what they like with them other than sell them on.
 
answeriing the taking two photos and keeping one, i would say no as you were under contract to take pictures so i woudl think that the second is his as well, or anything that you took on "his time and land" in agreement with him, if you were to use it to commercially gain then he would have a case to challenge you.

first how long is the job to be how many photos are you being asked to take?

then hwo much future work is there? do you take the risk and low price selling copyright for each photo at say £100. if you only sell one then is that worth it for future work of say 10 photos.

my eyes would be take a risk lower price, not silly price and see what comes of it. over price, one photo sold no further work as others not happy to pay.

remember there is a credit crises so that may have a bearing on his decison to seek copyright to the piccies. one off payment good quality photo so he has image to use again and again.

i sell photos at reasonable price so at moment one 20x16 i am selling at £35 and getting repeat business, if it was to sell copyright i would need to compensate for the ones that are selling. is it a photo that you would normally sell or make money from?

you need to evaluate future profit against loss if any if you were to sell copyright
 
It's probably worth finding out exactly why he wants the copyright in the first place. It could well be that he's confused about what rights he needs and why, once you know that you'll be in a better position to work out a deal on rights for the shots.
 
I was in a similar dilemma recently where the charity I was working with wanted to own the copyright to images of a concert they held.

I opted to give them use of the images for a year, as long as my name was mentioned whenever they were published. This has opened quite a few doors for me. I have another bigger event to cover in a few weeks and some of the artists that were performing first time around, have contacted me asking me to cover their work on a personal basis.

I also get to put the pictures I took into my portfolio so everyone is a winner :)
 
Thanks for the replies.

He does know all about the legalities of copyright and he wants to be able to use them as he wants, including selling them on.

Some of the photos would be useless to me anyway: they would be of his business properties ~ so only good to him. The other photos woud be worth something: it is a very touristy area. Having said that, I could just as easily take his photos, then drive off his land and take some more for myself.

Just need to work out a price now...........

Thanks!
 
Sell him an unrestricted license to use and abuse the images as he likes, but you retain the copyright.
 
The potential client is a big cheese and knows what things are worth (to him). Being a big cheese he's probably a control freak and doesn't want any chance of any ne'er-do-well seeing his estate online etc. Plus it makes it so much simpler for him to use "his" assets without contacting the photographer for licence terms each time. Having only today received payment after six months of badgering away at similar big cheeses who stole my shot, I wouldn't trust any of `em, nor work my way into their circle of toadies on their terms. While you have the opportunity, you could explain to the big cheese why no-one should accept his terms unless they are very well compensated.
 
Photon's about right. These fellas didn't get to be big cheeses by paying their way, so be careful. I made the mistake too of working for one of these types and his glamorous set of people, including several tv types etc, and next to nothing came of it despite doing several jobs for them. I also ended up chasing payment for 3 months etc and it is a pain in the 'arris and time and energies lost for which you are never compensated.
So be careful, not getting this job at all could be a blessing in disguise.
The rule of thumb I go for when selling copyright is based on its worth to me, ultimately, so base it on 3 years licencing values to you (check the NUJ site for rates, it gives a good guide to image values in whatever context the customer expects to use them) and decide then if the job is worth it to you.
Take 50% deposit upfront too as cleared funds BEFORE starting the job. This seperates the wheat and chaff, those who say they want photography and can pay for it, from those who say they want photography but either cannot or do not have any intention whatsoever of paying for it.
Be astute ultimately, firm but not aggressive, and he'll respect your accumen.:)
 
This all depends on what kind of snapper you want to be. I sell every image I shoot commercially with full copyright going to the client.

There being in my mind several very good reasons for doing this.

-The client knows that they will never have to hassle over using the images THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR.

-I don't have to spend any of my time checking who's using images that they shouldn't be.

-I don't have to spend any time on admin for licenses and renewals.

-Good relationships don't turn sour over usage issues.

-I get to spend more of my working life behind the camera, creating images. Where I love to be.

I run my business on the basis that people pay for my time and I turn up and use my creativity to achieve their goals. Then I supply the images, they pay and we part happy, until the next time..... and there always is a next time. :D
 
Thanks for the replies.

Does anyone think the whole copyright thing is strange, and possibly out dated...........? You wouldn't pay a plumber to fit a new bathroom, then pay them a fee each year to use it, would you?

There are two types of photography really:

1/ client books, organises and pays for everything: you wouldn't be on the shoot if it wasn't for the client in the first place

...and....

2/ you take the photograph speculatively and then market it.

I don't have an issue with supplying copyright to anyone under #1 above (but never under #2), I just want to get the figures right.

By getting more business, I don't mean from this big cheese but from others in the same marketplace (tourism) who would see my work.
 
My attitude on this is:

If you pay me to take photo's for you, to your direction, then the copyright is yours.

If I take photos of my own accord, and you want to use/purchase them, then the copyright stays with me, unless you want to procure that as well, which is subject to additional negotiation....

Steve
 
Just to bump this back up.

In short, I took the pictures (about one hour on location, one hour each way travelling and about two hours in post) and sold them to him, with copyright, for £500.

I had a clause written in stating, although he owns the copyright, I can still use the pictures if I want to.

I was happy with that (considering there wouldn't have been a job at all if we hadn't agreed on the coyright issue).
 
Sounds like you did well out of it. And for the record, I agree with Jelster. Again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top