Copyright advice

StuartH

StuartH

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Stuart
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Hi all I recently agreed to do some picks for a guys website..he is a snake breeder and we both agreed to payment which was a snake..I agreed to do pics for him as and when he needed to update his available page. I edited and resized all images for him and supplied them on disc.
Done the first shoot last week and posted images on disc 2 days later and some have been uploaded to the site already..thing is his web designer has put a copyright on the site for me regarding the pics and the breeder is saying that he owns the copyright as he paid me to do the pics!!! I never agreed to hand over copyright but he thinks he now owns them...how do I stand? Do not want to fall out with the guy but think its only fair I get some sort of recognition for the images I took..Maybe I should just watermark the ones I send him for use...any ideas?
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Tricky one to sort after it's happened but I think you need to explain to your mate about copyright and licences for usage.

As the copyright holder you do have a moral right to be identified as the author of the work, this is part of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act so you could show your friend this:

http://www.england-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/ukpga_19880048_en_4#pt1-ch4-pb1-l1g77

Note this right does need to be asserted which is simply saying "I assert my moral right to be identified as the author".

You could also try explaining that your friend doesn't own the pictures but he does own the right to use them on his website if that would help.
 
Tricky one I am no lawyer.
Are the pics of any actual value to "your friend?" whether he belives he has the copyright or not?
If it was me I would ask for "images by Stuart" or however you want to be known, somewhere on the site and a link back to your website or your forum
and let him "have" the images :shrug:

 
I'd say it depends how desperate you are not to fall out, and how much money you've earnt from it.
I see a few options
1) send a stupidly large bill for the transfer of copyright (10x what they've already paid/been invoiced (although you'd probably want that translated into money, rather than 10 snakes), maybe more)
2) Have a word and point out that you own the copyright, and if he refuses to acknowledge that, send a strongly worded letter/court action.
3) Don't do any more work for him.
4) Just accept it and move on.

Chances are that number 2 would do the trick, without getting to the stage of nasty letters. He may simply not be aware that the creator of the image retains the copyright, and he is just buying exclusive use.
 
Copyright, particularly for commercial uses, has to be spelled out very clearly before the shoot. Although you DO own the copyright, the client did not understand what he was getting for his money (or snake, I suppose. LOL)

If I were in your shoes, I would let this one go and learn from it. In the future, be excruciatingly clear about copyright IN WRITING (including your requirement about being identified as the photographer) and have your client sign it.

As far as the moral right to be identified as the photog, it's really your call. Sometimes I do require it (i.e. publicity spreads in magazines) and other times I don't (mostly situations where I probably won't get much business from it, and/or it would be too visually distracting.)

- CJ
 
I really really appreciate the replies all...I do think that maybe he doesn't fully understand the copyright laws and am quite happy to discuss things amicably...I think he was annoyed that the web designer put copyright to all photos in my name as he has done some pics on the site himself which is understandable...BUT still doesn't mean he owns my pics..
Our agreement was I would do an initial photoshoot and then visit him 2-3 times throughout the year and take updated pics of his stock..I didn't set the amount of pics I would process and send on disc but assured him it would be more than enough for his needs..I think to have a photographer turn up take the pics,edit and process and send on disc a few times a year is a good deal for the value of the animal I was given as payment!. I have proposed that he keeps the "All photos and content © of *******, unless otherwise stated" and I will place a small watermark in the corner of each pic I supply for him in the future...does this sound fair?
 
As far as the moral right to be identified as the photog, it's really your call. Sometimes I do require it (i.e. publicity spreads in magazines) and other times I don't (mostly situations where I probably won't get much business from it, and/or it would be too visually distracting.)
Click to expand...
See we are both involved in the reptile industry and alot of my current and future work would benefit from an acknowlegement of works done on the site..
 
As above, you own the copyright, unless a legally binding contact of the transfer of copyright takes place. You have said nothing of the copyright, so no verbal agreement has taken place. In future, this should be common practice for your clients to understand.
Simpling buying a photo from someone does not mean they have an automatic licence to sell it or to make a copy of it. So it's best to make this clear when you sign up for any job.

Unless his paid for the copyright, then you have everyright to put a copyright logo on your work. He may have paid for the work, but his only paid for a licence to use it on so and so worth basis.

I don't think he will like that somehow, but make sure when he has ago and demands it to be taken off of your copyright agreement.

In most cases of having your name on there you are advertising yourself and there so most people will demand the price lower.

James
 
Thanks James for the input..much appreciated. I am hoping its a simple misunderstanding on his part and it will be resolved in a decent way.Has anyone got links or examples of a basic "terms and conditions" etc that I could use..
 
Well basic Terms and conditions generally cover a large area so it gets sticky if you ever took a person to court.

I would suggest you have two sections at leats covering Personal and Commercial work. this can include the terms:

1. All photos taken Commercially or for private use by John Smith are the copyright of john Smith Unless otherwise stated all rights are reserved.
2. Copyright Remains with John Smith unless a legally binding contract of Copyright Transfer is signed and witnessed.
3. The Price of Photographs with vary depending on the licence you have bought with the photograph.
Licences include:
For Personal Use Only
For Personal Use, with resale
For commercial use (This is where it gets complicated)
For commercial use at the agreed use of the photographs in a commercial manner A legally binding contract signed and witnessed.

Client refusal To pay or non payment:
If client refuses to pay or does not pay for the above licence and shootting (Labour) costs as stated above in the agreement Legal action will be taken.
Reasons why photographs refused acceptable to Half payment:
iA. Photographs are not of brief stated by client.
iB. Photographs are grossly different to brief being over 50% different to the brief.


I could go on and on and on. The best way to do things are to make sure it's legally watertight and being checked over by a Lawyer. It costs, but when you end up in court, it makes sure they don't have a leg to stand on.

James
 
Thanks James you have been very helpfull...I will certainly make sure something is typed up next time..will save any grief next time.
 
If I were to "keep the peace" as it were and tell them to remove my name from the site would I still retain copyright even though it would say "All photos and content © of MR Bloggs" If so I would be happy to do this..
 
StuartH said:
If I were to "keep the peace" as it were and tell them to remove my name from the site would I still retain copyright even though it would say "All photos and content © of MR Bloggs" If so I would be happy to do this..
Click to expand...

If MR Bloggs is the guy you did the pics for and you let him put © MR Bloggs on his site then I don't think you would still retain copyright.

Others on here might confirm this but perhaps if you let him put photographs property of MR bloggs © StuartH that might work, but I'm not sure. Sorry :)
 
:thinking:mmmm... I thought unless I signed a legally binding document the copyright stayed with me wether the pics are watermarked or credited to me..
 
StuartH said:
:thinking:mmmm... I thought unless I signed a legally binding document the copyright stayed with me wether the pics are watermarked or credited to me..
Click to expand...


But surely if you say to him he can put 'photographs © MR Bloggs' on his site then you are basically handing over copyright free-of-charge?
 
Whatever you do don't do that, your "verbally" giving away your copyright. If i were you, i would write a clean email to him outlining that you own the copyright and he has a licence to use the photos.

If you want to be subtle you can always use your initials including your middle names.

Don't threaten him straight away or he will run.

James
 
Ok cheers guys I'll scrap that idea then....
 
Ask why he wants the copyright, particularly if you are willing to give him unlimited royalty free use of those images (for his website only as that is what you've been paid for).

Explain that if you transfer the copyright to him he could then go on to sell those images again and again at your expense (of lost income) or sell the copyright to someone else, which wasn't the original bargain.

As everyone has already pointed out, it is normal for the photographer to retain copyright unless a specific contract has been entered into (for a consideration) to sell the copyright. It's the same as with software, you are buying the use of the product, not the ownership.
 
I will do...I may even send a link to this thread and hopefully he will understand it a bit better..I do think that there maybe some confusion on his part as to what copyright covers ..
 
The Law States that the person who "pressed the button" holds the copyright to the photographs, unless you are specifically commissioned and contracted to do said photographs, in which case the owner of the copyright goes to the commissioner.

As a general rule when I'm commissioned to do work for someone else I provide a written agreement that gives me the right to use the photographs for self promotion, and requires the commissioner to credit for said photographs on each appearance on any media format.

They will usually insert a clause that prevents me from selling the photos to anyone else - i.e. an exclusivity clause.

I'd notch this one up as a "learning curve".
 
Thanks for the reply Danny but I am still obligated to do another few shoots for him..if it wasn't for that I would maybe put it down to a "learning curve" but he is potentially going to have hundreds of my images...
 
Do you have a written contract?

Also, we have a saying in comedy..."It's only a joke". Essentially, if somebody nicks one of my gags, I just write another, better one.

Get past this shoot and don't dwell on it.

Just my humble onion.
 
Hi,No written contract mate...so just do the rest of the shots,hand over copyright and chalk it up????:thinking:
 
Nah. Don't do any more if it's a risk to your copyright. Better to chalk up the few you've done than another couple hundred.

Of course, he may even be nice and play ball if you pull out...

Ask yourself this: Do you really care about a few photos of some snakes that you did for someone else?

Nobody wants to lose their copyright, but better to sack it off now and lose a few pics you'll probably never look at again, than make the same mistake later with a job you really care about.

I know it's a tw@ but tomorrow's another day.
 
Have you taken receipt of your snake in payment yet? What species is it? Any pics?
 
You were taking photos while under the employment of your friend. In some cases that would mean the copyright resides with the employer.
 
danny james said:
The Law States that the person who "pressed the button" holds the copyright to the photographs, unless you are specifically commissioned and contracted to do said photographs, in which case the owner of the copyright goes to the commissioner.

As a general rule when I'm commissioned to do work for someone else I provide a written agreement that gives me the right to use the photographs for self promotion, and requires the commissioner to credit for said photographs on each appearance on any media format.

They will usually insert a clause that prevents me from selling the photos to anyone else - i.e. an exclusivity clause.

I'd notch this one up as a "learning curve".
Click to expand...

Just read this. What I think as well. You never specified in a contract that you would hold copyright.
 
I have received the snake for doing the pics it was a jungle jaguar carpet python...I will have to come to some agreement as I will hold up my end of the deal and do the rest of his pics for him...I wasn't under his employment according to this..
The situation is slightly different for employed photographers. Employed photographers do not own copyright in work created “in the course of their employment” unless they have an agreement to the contrary. You can consider yourself employed if your employer pays PAYE and National Insurance. Freelance work does not constitute being employed.
 
That is true, but usually if you get commissioned for a shoot the copyright stays with the person paying you unless you specifically agree otherwise. There's no reason this should really affect you though, as long as you still have a free reign to use the photos for self promotion, or were you planning on world-wide snake photo domination? ;-)
 
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