Converters or Tubes for Tamron90 (on Sony)

Azure

Azure

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Hello TP'ers :)

Asking for some more advice from y'all if possible.

Unfortunately, my Sony A33 died yesterday. Anyhoo - it's only 6 months old and is therefore covered under warranty so that's not a problem per se. I've been cameraphobic (not possible you may think), lost confidence and ill for a while and this was the first time I've picked it up properly for a few weeks - and then it died on me. :shrug:

Soooooo... of course, off I went to the Devon Camera shop in Exeter (they are FABULOUS and the lovely chap has loaned me a camera to play with until mine comes back) and I had a good look at some of the equipment there. I am still mad crazy on macro but I can't get the eyes to look like any of the brilliant shots that I see here by the Macro Crew. I'm not getting on too well with the milk carton diffusing the flash :cuckoo: so I had a play with a ring flash in the shop (love it!) and also looked at the kenco ext tubes and the 2 x converters.

The chap in the shop reckons I should go for the converter as opposed to the tubes as that will double my f# and allow me to be further away and not right on top of the bug. (yep, I know there is a massive disparity with the prices of tubes v converter)

So, please can anyone give me a clue or advice ... I would like to achieve the eyes that have every detail in ... like Ash's, Carlo's and the Macro toggers (y'all are too many to name).

Mine look like this (without flash and using Tamron 90) which is pants compared to what I wish it to look like.

DSC03191.JPG


I wish to be in closer and more detailed. I'd post someone's photo but I don't think I'm allowed to do that.

I'd appreciate any help y'all can give me.

(A33 body, Tamron 90, Sony 50mm plus various other lenses).

Many thanks :)

<will be back later so hope some of you will be around>
 
It's something I'm also keen to try, but not yet done so.

I have a set of auto tubes, but not had a chance to really try them out since I got them - but recently read a post (I think it was on an other forum) that suggested the combination of a 1.4x TC and 48mm of tubes worked well (this was with a Tamron 90 Macro, as I recall).

Perhaps some of the macro experts here can confirm or deny this as a viable option?
 
Thank you Jonathan - looking for as much detailed as poss as I'm winging it right now and need to know my best options.

Many thanks for you reponse. Let me know how you get along. :)
 
If it helps at all you can look on my flickr as all those shots are done with a full set of tubes only difference being is there shot with a sigma 105mm which is only a slight difference in minimum focus difference.

Before you go looking at buying a ring flash which I'm honestly not a big fan of look to see if you can pick up a bracket to get your flash off camera only problem being is with tubes fitted it then becomes harder to get the light to the end of the lens so you may have to alter a standard bracket or perhaps look through the macro rig thread for inspiration.

To give you an idea I use a manfrotto 330b with a C shape flash bracket attached and then a ball head fitted but there's lots of ingenious ways of achieving the same.

oh and the teleconverter is for working distance not so much for magnification so if it is mag your after its tubes,raynox,or reversed 50mm or the like.


And also nice picture :thumbs:
 
Nez said:
If it helps at all you can look on my flickr as all those shots are done with a full set of tubes only difference being is there shot with a sigma 105mm which is only a slight difference in minimum focus difference.

Before you go looking at buying a ring flash which I'm honestly not a big fan of look to see if you can pick up a bracket to get your flash off camera only problem being is with tubes fitted it then becomes harder to get the light to the end of the lens so you may have to alter a standard bracket or perhaps look through the macro rig thread for inspiration.

To give you an idea I use a manfrotto 330b with a C shape flash bracket attached and then a ball head fitted but there's lots of ingenious ways of achieving the same.

oh and the teleconverter is for working distance not so much for magnification so if it is mag your after its tubes,raynox,or reversed 50mm or the like.


And also nice picture :thumbs:
Click to expand...



Good advice about the ring flash -
A tele converter will increase magnification , a 1.4 converter on a 1:1 macro lens will give 1.4:1 ,with a 2x giving 2:1 you will lose a little working distance which is equal to the size (mm) of the converter.

OP - Personally i would go with tubes as there's no glass to affect IQ but lighting will be key to you success.
 
Azure Quote " Soooooo... of course, off I went to the Devon Camera shop in Exeter (they are FABULOUS and the lovely chap has loaned me a camera to play with until mine comes back" unquote..

I would have insisted on a replacement camera not a repair as its covered under warrantee as the goods arn't fit for use.

Realspeed
 
Paul is right on what he's saying on the tele converter front I should of phrased it a little better, anyway be careful of his advice he makes you think about spending money :bang: ;)
 
Nez said:
If it helps at all you can look on my flickr as all those shots are done with a full set of tubes only difference being is there shot with a sigma 105mm which is only a slight difference in minimum focus difference.

Before you go looking at buying a ring flash which I'm honestly not a big fan of look to see if you can pick up a bracket to get your flash off camera only problem being is with tubes fitted it then becomes harder to get the light to the end of the lens so you may have to alter a standard bracket or perhaps look through the macro rig thread for inspiration.

To give you an idea I use a manfrotto 330b with a C shape flash bracket attached and then a ball head fitted but there's lots of ingenious ways of achieving the same.

oh and the teleconverter is for working distance not so much for magnification so if it is mag your after its tubes,raynox,or reversed 50mm or the like.


And also nice picture :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much Neil :) -I had a look thru your shots - FAB - and yep, I can see the detail in your eyes <well, ya know what I mean :D>. I would like to get closer still but without having to literally get so close to subject - I use a Manfrotto tripod but have slightly dodgy hands so I can't move it so quickly which is why they were recommending a converter - we put some tubes on at the shop but were almost on top of the subject and I just don't know if I can get that close to the bugs as they move way too fast - whereas the converters would allow me to stand back just a tad whilst magnifying. I do agree, having listened to everyone over the months, that the lighting is the critical component... I just don't quite understand all the brackets and stuff or how to do that. I will have a search thru the macro rig thread - it's just it's easier to see in practice.

To give you an idea I use a manfrotto 330b with a C shape flash bracket attached
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Do you have a pic of that anywhere so I can picture it better, or is that on the thread (haven't had a chance to go thru the macro thread yet - slap's writst>

Dogfish_magnet said:
Good advice about the ring flash -
A tele converter will increase magnification , a 1.4 converter on a 1:1 macro lens will give 1.4:1 ,with a 2x giving 2:1 you will lose a little working distance which is equal to the size (mm) of the converter.

OP - Personally i would go with tubes as there's no glass to affect IQ but lighting will be key to you success.
Click to expand...

Hello Paul - I love your shots so much <sigh>. Man, your water bug bubble shots are amazing. Thank you for the advice - I believe you use an MPE-65 which I prolly can't be getting at this point but do you use tubes or converters with that too or are you just up close and personal? Can you recommend which tubes you think I ought to consider. I know Ash got some Kenco's for a few quid and had amazing results using them - the Kenco ones they had in the shop were over a £100 - the 2xteleconverter was around £200.

I was also wondering Paul, did your mothballs hatch?

Re the lighting - I need to have something that doesn't require too many fingers and thumbs as my hands aren't good, that once it's on will let me go out and shoot without having to change it round or over etc for each shot.

realspeed said:
Azure Quote " Soooooo... of course, off I went to the Devon Camera shop in Exeter (they are FABULOUS and the lovely chap has loaned me a camera to play with until mine comes back" unquote..

I would have insisted on a replacement camera not a repair as its covered under warrantee as the goods arn't fit for use.

Realspeed
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Hmmm Bazza... I assumed that after 28 days it had to be sent off for warranty repair rather than replacement - I bought it in Feb :thinking: Would it be normal practice to replace or repair within 6 months?





OK - off to read through the the rig thread properly for inspiration/instruction properly, which I know I should have done before replying to y'all - but I didn't want you to think I'd done a hit and run, so I've only had a chance to look through it quickly - gosh, some of those rigs looks complicated. :help:
 
Oh, one other thing... do the tubes work with auto focus... or do you have to get AF tubes or MF tubes? I'm sure I read something somewhere that said if you want AF, you have to get specific AF tubes

<see, not a clue - doh>
 
How did the A33 die?? If it is a minor issue then I'd expect a repair but if it is a major failure then I'd wonder about a replacement. Also if the repair fails you can still insist on a replacement as 6 months isn't long for a new camera to last.

For off camera flash any sony dedicated flash gun with a slave setting (eg cheap jessops) can be used as sonys have wireless flash built in. Saves having trailing cables. Macro flashes aren't always wonderful and you need one with a wide barrel to use on lens as the narrow barrel ones cause vignetting (my vivitar does) so you'd end up using that off camera too which can be restrictive as the cable thing on it is short. It works much better off camera than on. If you have tubes/converters etc then it is going to make the working distance too close as generally macro flashes are designed to be used between 1 and 4 feet away from the subject.
 
Hi Suz - the 33 just quit mid shoot.

A few times it has overheated (I do click A LOT) and a flashing warning comes up on the display - this is usually in macro mode where it's taking 3 consecutive shots. I assumed it's because I go and shoot for a couple hours constantly click click click.

Anyhoo - at one point it flashed an overheating warning. When it's done this before, I usually have to leave it for about 10 mins or so for it to cool down.

Then it died on me completely about 10 minutes later. I use the viewfinder, not the screen, so... I don't know why it should be overheating - I know if using the screen that, as it is directly behind the sensor, it has been known to cause probs. (I say I know this, but it's "I've been told this" )

So, I left it for a bit, tried again, nada, thought the battery had gone, replaced with spare, nada, thought the spare must be out - charged both - nada! <gutted>

Re the flash, yep, I won't be good with cables for sure. I am usually real up close and personal with the bugs (except anything with 8 legs) so I am only a few inches away - it's just not giving me the detail - which I realise is because of not using the flash. I did use the milk carton :o) for a while - but it drove me nuts! I need ease of use - not too technical and I do dart and dash around getting quite overexcited - so cables won't work too well for me <not asking for much a? :D > Also, I prefer AF most times due to not always being able to use my hands for MF.



The ring flash was gonna be approx £250???? <o.m.gawd>
 
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Thanks Suz - oooh, not heard of the A35. Been told the A77 is good tho!

Will have a look around on the www to see if other's have posted about the A33 overheating so that maybe I could ring the shop on Monday - I also seem to have a prob with the panorama function as it often cuts me off mid pano... if you know of any blurb about the overheating, please could you post a link to it.

Thank you re: the ring flash - near half the price too.... hmmmmmmm - food for thought :thinking:
 
The A77 looks brilliant and the A65 will also be a steal. Just depends on how much spare cash you have :)

A35 is £470 or so body only so roughly the same price as the A580 SLR http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-Sony-Alpha-A35-Digital-SLT-Body/p1526033

Lots of things about overheating.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=37749572

http://www.flickr.com/groups/1507977@N21/discuss/72157625942629763/

I'd just google sony A33 overheating and see just how much stuff appears!
 
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oh my - there's a lot of us with the same problem - thank you for posting those links - I shall give the chap a call tomorrow and see what he says - mebbe ask for when the Sony rep pops by to give me a call so I can have a chat with him.

I'm not sure what my rights are in that the camera is 6 months old and I don't have an extended warranty - but if this is issue is a known issue and common to many since the release, then maybe they would upgrade the camera.

Thank you very much Suz :)
 
Azure said:
oh my - there's a lot of us with the same problem - thank you for posting those links - I shall give the chap a call tomorrow and see what he says - mebbe ask for when the Sony rep pops by to give me a call so I can have a chat with him.

I'm not sure what my rights are in that the camera is 6 months old and I don't have an extended warranty - but if this is issue is a known issue and common to many since the release, then maybe they would upgrade the camera.

Thank you very much Suz :)
Click to expand...

Isn't the standard Sony warranty 12 months?
 
Do you have a pic of that anywhere so I can picture it better, or is that on the thread
Click to expand...

I don't but I'll certainly do one for you.

My only concern is it can be a bit heavy but you can make a much lighter version with just a simple flash bracket and a C shaped rather than the 330b which is where all the weight is.

But the macro rig thread has loads of options

If your after more working distance and you use a tripod have you thought of perhaps going for the tamron 180 for extra working distance and you'll still be at 1:1 sadly unless you add the tubes but I'm trying to think of suggestions that might help due to you having problems getting close.

The MPE-65 basically doesn't need tubes to get close the lens will get to 5x the magnification on its own just picture a very simple lens with the tubes built in to get to the desired mag and yes you would end up being close to the subject.
 
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Johnd2000 said:
Isn't the standard Sony warranty 12 months?
Click to expand...


Hi John, yes, I do believe it is, which is why I don't think I would be entitled to a replacement unless it had gone wrong within the first 28 days. It is being repaired under warranty so it's not a problem - however, if this is a known issue then I don't want it dying on me on day 366 and then having to pay for repairs. I will ring the chap tomorrow tho and see what he says. :)
 
Nez said:
I don't but I'll certainly do one for you.

My only concern is it can be a bit heavy but you can make a much lighter version with just a simple flash bracket and a C shaped rather than the 330b which is where all the weight is.

But the macro rig thread has loads of options

If your after more working distance and you use a tripod have you thought of perhaps going for the tamron 180 for extra working distance and you'll still be at 1:1 sadly unless you add the tubes but I'm trying to think of suggestions that might help due to you having problems getting close.
Click to expand...

Oh thank you Neil - it would be great to be able to see the rig you have. Bless you for that.

Yep, heavy is a prob for me - but I always shoot on the tripod now as I can't keep my hands from shaking nor hold a real heavy camera. I can get close to the bugs (well, in my garden I can and, as the folk who know me here have seen, I'm quite happy to lay on the ground shooting bugs) - it's getting the larger magnification I suppose I really want - and if I had the flash set-up correct - then my shots would be heaps better. I think the 90 will be fine if I had some tubes so I don't scare the bugs half to death as I loom closer - but then I think the converter may be better for the mag.


The MPE-65 basically doesn't need tubes to get close the lens will get to 5x the magnification on its own just picture a very simple lens with the tubes built in to get to the desired mag and yes you would end up being close to the subject.
Click to expand...

ok, so I have a bucket list of lenses but that's THE ONE ;) dayum, I want me one of those 65's SOOOOO BADLY!!!! That would solve the mag problem a? <nope, not even going to look at the price of them... nope nope, not going to do it... searches MPE-65 in browser ;) >
 
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I've sent you a pm with how my bracket was setup I didn't think people would be that interested in it being in the thread.


ok, so I have a bucket list of lenses but that's THE ONE dayum, I want me one of those 65's SOOOOO BADLY!!!! That would solve the mag problem a? <nope, not even going to look at the price of them... nope nope, not going to do it... searches MPE-65 in browser >
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I'm not going to even go down that road as since my Sigma 105mm broke on me this is the lens I'm switching to which means a complete upheaval to Canon.
 
Cheers Neil - appreciate your help!

Sorry about your 105.. oh my, you're converting to Canon!

<can understand that... I wish I'd gone for the 7D but I now have a bunch of Sony lenses so, gonna have to stick to what I know>
 
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It'd be cheaper to repair the sigma than switch to canon! You'll miss the in body IS for a start...
 
Azure said:
Snip....

Hello Paul - I love your shots so much <sigh>. Man, your water bug bubble shots are amazing. Thank you for the advice - I believe you use an MPE-65 which I prolly can't be getting at this point but do you use tubes or converters with that too or are you just up close and personal? Can you recommend which tubes you think I ought to consider. I know Ash got some Kenco's for a few quid and had amazing results using them - the Kenco ones they had in the shop were over a £100 - the 2xteleconverter was around £200.

I was also wondering Paul, did your mothballs hatch?
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Thanks - unfortunately the mothballs didn't hatch :shake:

Yes i mostly use a MPE but i have recently got a sigma 150mm also to let me get some shots at less than 1:1, i use tubes (Kenko) and a converter with the mp-e sometimes - this is with a 2 x converter and the MP-e at 5 x giving 10x magnification


Ant_0882 by HiddenNature, on Flickr


and here's a shot from a sigma 105mm with a full set of tubes


Hover fly by HiddenNature, on Flickr

As you increase magnification your working distance will reduce, you'll get less DOF and your effective aperture will get smaller all of which is a pain !


The MP-e at 5 x magnification and F16 has a dark image in the viewfinder , an effective aperture of f96 :eek: 40mm ish working distance with DOF of 0.269mm ............

The problem you'll have is getting light to the subject (from the front), with tubes (and a Converter ) the limited working distance of the Tamron 99mm which will reduce dramatically with tubes and by about 25mm with a 1.4x, leaving you with a distance off approx 40mm from the front of the lens to subject (70mm with 1.4x) and about 150mm of lens to cast a shadow on the subject - so you'll need to experiment to get the best bracket / diffuser combination
 
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It'd be cheaper to repair the sigma than switch to canon! You'll miss the in body IS for a start...
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Yea it would be but I pretty much only shoot Macro and have done for a few years with a full set of tubes so would be nice to go for the extra magnification.

And as to the in body IS tbh I've never really noticed it being useful at macro distances.
 
It's a shame sony don't do an mpe-65 equivalent. Nikon don't either. Think they're both missing an opportunity.
 
It's a shame sony don't do an mpe-65 equivalent. Nikon don't either. Think they're both missing an opportunity.
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Yes I agree and would solve a lot of my problems but I suppose there's just not enough of a market out there for them to do it.
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
Thanks - unfortunately the mothballs didn't hatch :shake:
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oh that's a shame - the video that you took was amazing, really amazing.

Dogfish_magnet said:
Yes i mostly use a MPE but i have recently got a sigma 150mm also to let me get some shots at less than 1:1, i use tubes (Kenko) and a converter with the mp-e sometimes - this is with a 2 x converter and the MP-e at 5 x giving 10x magnification


Ant_0882 by HiddenNature, on Flickr


and here's a shot from a sigma 105mm with a full set of tubes


Hover fly by HiddenNature, on Flickr

As you increase magnification your working distance will reduce, you'll get less DOF and your effective aperture will get smaller all of which is a pain !


The MP-e at 5 x magnification and F16 has a dark image in the viewfinder , an effective aperture of f96 :eek: 40mm ish working distance with DOF of 0.269mm ............

The problem you'll have is getting light to the subject (from the front), with tubes (and a Converter ) the limited working distance of the Tamron 99mm which will reduce dramatically with tubes and by about 25mm with a 1.4x, leaving you with a distance off approx 40mm from the front of the lens to subject (70mm with 1.4x) and about 150mm of lens to cast a shadow on the subject - so you'll need to experiment to get the best bracket / diffuser combination
Click to expand...

oh my, I musta learned something since I came to TP - I actually understood all of that :p

F96 - good lawd!!!!!!!!!

Your photos - especially the hover - are ones I dream about getting - truly incredible - which, when talking to Joe Public - makes me a "really really weird gal" as bugs fascinate me and folk don't 'get it' - particularly bug eyes and 6 hairy legs or dragonfly's face :D It's the little things that make my world ;)
 
So, if I were being sensible (which is not so much in my nature when it comes to photography) and being that I am limited on funds (mores the pity, an MPE-65 would get me a photography holiday in ££££'s)- it would probably make more sense to go for the tubes so as not to decrease my working distance as much as the converters would - and to figure out which would be the best flash/diffuser for me.

If I went for tubes - would these be the correct tubes to go for?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenko-Telep...7A6W/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1315145321&sr=8-5

or should I go through the shop (they'll usually price match for me because they are ever so lovely) and make sure that I actually get the right kit?

So, now the flash rig... still ummming and arrrrghing about that - I'm just not that technical (who knew) and want the easiest possible solution without the big bucks - which of course, everyone does. Hmmmmmmm :thinking:

I imagine that with the ring flash, being that it would be on the front of the lens, this will solve the problem of getting light close enough to the subject and avoidance of shadows...

or ...

<thoughts>
 
srichards said:
You'll miss the in body IS for a start...
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??? IS = Image stabilisation???

When I was at the shop on Friday, they did say to me that I should turn that off when using a tripod as that would increase the overheating.

The only time I normally turn that off is when I'm shooting waterfalls, moving stuff... I thought the IS would be apt for Macro.
 
it would probably make more sense to go for the tubes so as not to decrease my working distance as much as the converters would
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The other way around but the converter will give you a drop in image quality and really isn't ideal.

I'd stick to tubes tbh the ones you listed are spot on but there's cheaper options out there.

I still cant recommend ring flash's if you've already got a separate hot shoe flash I would opt for using a bracket, but saying that if you want an easy solution without the faff perhaps that's the right option, but really there's not much trouble to it and once its on a bracket a bit of DIY and after that there's minimal messing.

IS (image stabilisation) off for tripod is always recommended, but I never noticed its usefulness when using hand held with flash and at 2x mag

As to strange looks from the public I think it comes with the territory of being a macro shooter :D
 
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