Convert to black and white

Notts_Dave

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Dave
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I read a thread on here which opened my eyes to a wholenew ball-game. The post simply said "there's more to coverting to mono than hitting <convert to grayscale> . Is there thinks I.Thats all i have done till now.
So what is the best way to get a great mono conversion.
 
I read a thread on here which opened my eyes to a wholenew ball-game. The post simply said "there's more to coverting to mono than hitting <convert to grayscale> . Is there thinks I.Thats all i have done till now.
So what is the best way to get a great mono conversion.

I have got a D3100 and I find the built in "mono" picture profile works great. The only tweak to the profile I have made is to reduce the "sharpening" value to zero. I then save this as a "custom picture profile".
 
I think there's various answers to your question depending upon subject and desired outcome

Whilst convert to greyscale/desaturate gives you an instant mono shot more often than not the shot will look flat and lack punch.

For me I use Nik silver efex which as a plethora of pre-sets which work but sometimes I will combine a CS6 mono conversion with Nik Silver efex as a layer mask and blend the two for various outcomes.
 
Silver Efex Pro is what I use. I find it gives lots of options, unlimited in fact, as it is possible to tweak small areas of the image to get the effect you are after.
there are also many presets which will give different B&W film effects.
Download a trial, there's nothing to lose.
 
If you use Photoshop then download some of the B&W actions from
www.atncentral.com
I like the Gorman action but there are many others
Silver Efex Pro is v good but that is purchased software

Dave
 
I find if you do a straightforward moo conversion, either in camera or in software you tend to get a greyscale result rather than a black and white shot.

What I mean is that the contrast and depth is lacking and the shot lacks real punch.

I use Nik SilverEfex Pro and it is a great piece of software, albeit not cheap.

If using software such as Elements then I find I get a better result by not taking the global saturation slider to -100 but moving the individual colour channels to -100 then playing around with them and adjusting the contrast and brightness sliders too.
 
Making a great mono image from a colour one relies on understanding what colours are translated to what tones. As an example, remove the colour from a shot, and something that's red, and something that's green may well end up being the exact shade of grey depending the exact colour and brightness.

Never just convert an image using convert to greyscale, and personally, for the same reason I;d never set the camera to shoot in black and white either... because you have NO control over where the tones fall.

I nearly always use Lightroom's B&W function (or photoshop's.. they behave in the same way... but LR is working on the RAW and is completely reversible should you decide to change it later)

Look at this shot.

qfIFi.jpg


A straight "Convert to greyscale" in Photoshop resulted in this.

RlsLp.jpg


All the tones are almost identical.

As the most differentiation in the colour shot is between red, blues and yellows, I adjusted those channels in Lightroom's B&W palette to give a visually similar separation of tones in the balls and the sign.

Df0BM.jpg


Which resulted in this... a much more pleasing rendition.

uukVJ.jpg



Why anyone shoots B&W in camera, or just converts to greyscale is beyond me, as you have zero control over where the tones lie. It's for this reason those who used to shoot extensively with mono film will have used colour filters to do exactly the same thing... separate out tones.


[edit] These images are unedited in any other way... so they may look a bit flat. I've only played with teh colour channels in B&W to make my point.


Have a play with it... don't rely on pug-ins etc... they teach you nothing.. (unless you have plug-ins that allow manual adjustment of colour channels).
 
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This is something i need to look at and play with i think. Thanks for the recommendations etc.
 
David that is a fantastic post. I've been wondering about black and white conversion a bit recently and have also notice people saying not to use the in camera setting or simply convert, buit noone has actually explained why. You post, with pictures to back up the difference is a real eye opener. Cheers.
 
David

^^ a good example there - better than I was trying to describe!
 
......
Why anyone shoots B&W in camera, or just converts to greyscale is beyond me, as you have zero control over where the tones lie. It's for this reason those who used to shoot extensively with mono film will have used colour filters to do exactly the same thing... separate out tones.....

Well I only ever shoot tri-x and hp5 but have not tried adding colour filters. In fact it's not something that really get talked about even though most people I follow on facebook, twitter, flickr etc are mainly film shooters.
 
Well I only ever shoot tri-x and hp5 but have not tried adding colour filters. In fact it's not something that really get talked about even though most people I follow on facebook, twitter, flickr etc are mainly film shooters.

Try using a red filter when shooting a beautiful blue sky filled with fluffy white clouds. Really increases the contrast between the sky and the clouds, as the red filter will make the blue appear much darker as it filters out a lot of the blue light.
 
Well I only ever shoot tri-x and hp5 but have not tried adding colour filters. In fact it's not something that really get talked about even though most people I follow on facebook, twitter, flickr etc are mainly film shooters.


Get some basic understanding of colour theory and it all becomes clear. Complimentary colours will effect their opposites.

i46e8.png



For instance, a blue sky will be darkened most by a red or orange filter (see above.. its opposite).

The advantage with digital is you can make more than one adjustment, as opposed to using film where you can only really use one filter at a time. it's the same principle though.
 
Making a great mono image from a colour one relies on understanding what colours are translated to what tones. As an example, remove the colour from a shot, and something that's red, and something that's green may well end up being the exact shade of grey depending the exact colour and brightness.

Never just convert an image using convert to greyscale, and personally, for the same reason I;d never set the camera to shoot in black and white either... because you have NO control over where the tones fall.

I nearly always use Lightroom's B&W function (or photoshop's.. they behave in the same way... but LR is working on the RAW and is completely reversible should you decide to change it later)

Look at this shot.

qfIFi.jpg


A straight "Convert to greyscale" in Photoshop resulted in this.

RlsLp.jpg


All the tones are almost identical.

As the most differentiation in the colour shot is between red, blues and yellows, I adjusted those channels in Lightroom's B&W palette to give a visually similar separation of tones in the balls and the sign.

Df0BM.jpg


Which resulted in this... a much more pleasing rendition.

uukVJ.jpg



Why anyone shoots B&W in camera, or just converts to greyscale is beyond me, as you have zero control over where the tones lie. It's for this reason those who used to shoot extensively with mono film will have used colour filters to do exactly the same thing... separate out tones.


[edit] These images are unedited in any other way... so they may look a bit flat. I've only played with teh colour channels in B&W to make my point.


Have a play with it... don't rely on pug-ins etc... they teach you nothing.. (unless you have plug-ins that allow manual adjustment of colour channels).

Great Post!

John (DayDreamer) encouraged me to take a trip outside of the relative safety and familiarity of the X10 thread in relation to a question I was asking about B&W. This answers it exactly!!!!

Pookeyhead - I found your other colour chart post a great explanation as well.

Thanks all - its experimenting time for me now :)
 
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You tend to forget how well Black and white pan film represented colour to black and white.
It was only after the war that most film were panchromatic and could "see" well into the oranges and reds . Before that orthochromatic films were the norm, like ( Pre pan )Velochrome and selochrome from Kodak and Ilford. Those films could not "see" very much beyond the deep yellows. It was this that gave glamour shots those exaggeratedly dark lips and a 30's look. It also darkened the rouge so often used in make up those days.

If you cut down the reds and oranges in a Digital portrait conversion you will see the "Look"
 
Making a great mono image from a colour one relies on understanding what colours are translated to what tones. As an example, remove the colour from a shot, and something that's red, and something that's green may well end up being the exact shade of grey depending the exact colour and brightness.

Never just convert an image using convert to greyscale, and personally, for the same reason I;d never set the camera to shoot in black and white either... because you have NO control over where the tones fall.

I nearly always use Lightroom's B&W function (or photoshop's.. they behave in the same way... but LR is working on the RAW and is completely reversible should you decide to change it later)

Look at this shot.

qfIFi.jpg


A straight "Convert to greyscale" in Photoshop resulted in this.

RlsLp.jpg


All the tones are almost identical.

As the most differentiation in the colour shot is between red, blues and yellows, I adjusted those channels in Lightroom's B&W palette to give a visually similar separation of tones in the balls and the sign.

Df0BM.jpg


Which resulted in this... a much more pleasing rendition.

uukVJ.jpg



Why anyone shoots B&W in camera, or just converts to greyscale is beyond me, as you have zero control over where the tones lie. It's for this reason those who used to shoot extensively with mono film will have used colour filters to do exactly the same thing... separate out tones.


[edit] These images are unedited in any other way... so they may look a bit flat. I've only played with teh colour channels in B&W to make my point.


Have a play with it... don't rely on pug-ins etc... they teach you nothing.. (unless you have plug-ins that allow manual adjustment of colour channels).

Yes fully agree with Souldeep & sorry I meant to thank you earlier but a belated thank you (now) for posting as it has made big difference to my B&W attempts.

I also agree with your comments on plug ins. It is more satisfying to do the work yourself and not just have a 'one click' pre set.

:thumbs:
 
Thanks for all the quality information. Time to practice putting it into practice.
 
Black & white photography is all about tonal range between the darkest and most white part of an image.

Mixing the colour luminosity is a good start, though in CS6 you should also use luminosity masks to selectively adjust levels and to set a white point.

I often use duo tone, as in the image below which adds two colours to a b&w. Nik is fine, though it leads to quite poor b&w as people just assign a present without understanding what they are really doing.

Dodge and burn layers are also important to help bring out the tonal ranges across and image.

NO image is the same, and there is always some trial and error when making a conversion, for example, low key vs high key.

679872_403026656431888_128236133_o.jpg
 
Russell thank you for the excellent advice and, to prove your point, a bloody good B&W :thumbs:
 
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