contactless bank cards

Gremlin

Gremlin

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Came across this for the first time today, can't say I'm impressed, seems there is no security so if someone steals your card they can just use it !!
I know the limit is £20 per transaction but just think how many times someone could do that before you realise.
 
You don't need to steal it either. It is theoretically possible to scan people as they walk past and take £20 from any card in range.

A card reader built into a seat or a wall would probably work.


Steve.
 
The bank should reimburse you if you've been had. I also think you can ask for the functionality to be disabled, and if I'm not mistaken, never using it keeps it secure as the first time you use contactless it is supposed to ask for pin confirmation. So just don't use it. Alternatively, you can drill through the chip, which I'll probably do when my bank gives me one whenever my current card expires.
 
trencheel303 said:
The bank should reimburse you if you've been had. I also think you can ask for the functionality to be disabled, and if I'm not mistaken, never using it keeps it secure as the first time you use contactless it is supposed to ask for pin confirmation. So just don't use it. Alternatively, you can drill through the chip, which I'll probably do when my bank gives me one whenever my current card expires.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that also b****r up chip n pin?
 
viv1969 said:
Wouldn't that also b****r up chip n pin?
Click to expand...

I don't think so, the chips are in a separate place. The one you can see is chip n' pin but the contactless one is allegedly under the plastic. People have talked about doing it on MSE and the hardcore cash only'ers have done it. I will be researching it more as I will be doing something similar when my bank sends me one.
 
I much prefer contactless than faffing about with a pin - I often use my card for quite small sums, eg a couple of quid for a tea or coffee and for small sums it makes sense, especially if you are protected against fraud. Ideally it could replace cash transactions altogether negating the risk of having to carry cash.
 
trencheel303 said:
I don't think so, the chips are in a separate place. The one you can see is chip n' pin but the contactless one is allegedly under the plastic. People have talked about doing it on MSE and the hardcore cash only'ers have done it. I will be researching it more as I will be doing something similar when my bank sends me one.
Click to expand...

Ahhh ok. I only asked because my new replacement has contactless tech but only one chip. Now I understand :-)
 
I love mine also, I think there is also an upper limit so if you use is x amount of times it askes for a pin.
 
I'm less then impressed TBH, thankfully my card is not due for replacement for over a year.
I can see it becoming normal before long for larger amounts, with all the fraud that happens I can't understand
why banks are opening themselves to even more.
The friend I was with didn't get the option not to use it, the cashier just scanned the card without asking, mine of course
didn't work :)
 
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Gremlin said:
I'm less then impressed TBH, thankfully my card is not due for replacement for over a year.
I can see it becoming normal before long for larger amounts, with all the fraud that happens I can't understand
why banks are opening themselves to even more.
The friend I was with didn't get the option not to use it, the cashier just scanned the card without asking, mine of course
didn't work :)
Click to expand...

She handed the card to the cashier?
Even if she didn't, I'd have kicked off.
 
My wife doesn't now accept contactless transactions (as a retailer) since they cost more than chip'n'PIN transactions, especially when she takes into account the lower spend per transaction on contactless. Personally, I use cash whenever practicable.
 
viv1969 said:
She handed the card to the cashier?
Even if she didn't, I'd have kicked off.
Click to expand...

In both cases they just took the card and swiped it !
One was Lakeland Plastics and the other a coffee shop, to say I was surprised is putting it mildly, never come across
it before.
 
Tbh anyone snatching my card would be getting a slap lol
 
A lot of shops seem to keep the card readers out of view, so you have to give them your card and they put it in the machine then hand it to you
for the pin, so not exactly snatched.
They then give you your card back with the receipt
 
Have to say I've never experienced that. Always have the machine passed to me.
 
Gremlin said:
A lot of shops seem to keep the card readers out of view, so you have to give them your card and they put it in the machine then hand it to you
for the pin, so not exactly snatched.
They then give you your card back with the receipt
Click to expand...
That was the "old way" of doing things.
Then the banks told you never to let the cards out of your hand, and certainly not out of your sight,
due to fruad.
Restaurants begrudgingly started using "mobile" card readers, for that very reason.

viv1969 said:
Have to say I've never experienced that. Always have the machine passed to me.
Click to expand...
Me too. As above I wouldn't hand over my card.
I thought tha point of contactless readers was for "touch and go"
not pratt about with assistants, taking your card then "swiping / touching it"
Seems a slower method to me.
 
Nod said:
My wife doesn't now accept contactless transactions (as a retailer) since they cost more than chip'n'PIN transactions,.
Click to expand...

She needs to check that - our retail arm has it the other way round chip and pin costs more , because no phone call/ authorisation service is required for contactless as the card is preauthorised for up to 3 x £20 transactions per day - apparently the reader stores all the transactions till days end and then processes them all in one hit which is cheaper
 
Nod said:
My wife doesn't now accept contactless transactions (as a retailer) since they cost more than chip'n'PIN transactions, especially when she takes into account the lower spend per transaction on contactless. Personally, I use cash whenever practicable.
Click to expand...

Same here,alway carry a bit of cash around with me :)
 
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Love contactless. Much quicker for small transactions and much nicer than cash.

Gremlin said:
In both cases they just took the card and swiped it !
One was Lakeland Plastics and the other a coffee shop, to say I was surprised is putting it mildly, never come across
it before.
Click to expand...

Still fairly common on older till systems where the card transaction reader isn't integrated into the till, so a manual swipe is required to marry up receipts.
 
viv1969 said:
Have to say I've never experienced that. Always have the machine passed to me.
Click to expand...

You're very lucky, I'm constantly having to hand the card over. I don't really care because if I get skimmed the bank/CC will sort it.

The news seems to say we're no longer a cash centric society but the amount of faffing I regularly encounter when trying to pay by card suggests otherwise. They don't accept this, they might accept that, oh sorry the card machine is up three flights of stairs, oh I don't think it's working today. Dear god! Just take my flippin' money.

If I did as Cobra said above and never handed my card over I'd be seriously rich by now and probably also in jail!
 
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Cobra said:
That was the "old way" of doing things.
Then the banks told you never to let the cards out of your hand, and certainly not out of your sight,
due to fruad.
Restaurants begrudgingly started using "mobile" card readers, for that very reason.
Click to expand...


I never said the card ever left my sight, it was all done right in front of me.
As far as I can remember in restaurants the waiter takes the card and puts it in the reader
then gives the device to you to check amount and enter pin, so why is this any different ?
It seems to be larger shops that actually have the machines fixed to something as opposed
to floating around wired to the tills, and TBH with those on supermarket tills it can be a tad
difficult to hide your pin number when entering it.

Cobra said:
Me too. As above I wouldn't hand over my card.
I thought tha point of contactless readers was for "touch and go"
not pratt about with assistants, taking your card then "swiping / touching it"
Seems a slower method to me.
Click to expand...

If you are happy with money coming out of your account without any authorisation from you that's fine,
I on the other hand would prefer it not to happen

 
Cobra said:
Me too. As above I wouldn't hand over my card.
I thought tha point of contactless readers was for "touch and go"
not pratt about with assistants, taking your card then "swiping / touching it"
Seems a slower method to me.
Click to expand...

Gremlin said:
If you are happy with money coming out of your account without any authorisation from you that's fine,
I on the other hand would prefer it not to happen
Click to expand...
Read what I said again. Nowhere did I say that
 
trencheel303 said:
You're very lucky, I'm constantly having to hand the card over. I don't really care because if I get skimmed the bank/CC will sort it.

The news seems to say we're no longer a cash centric society but the amount of faffing I regularly encounter when trying to pay by card suggests otherwise. They don't accept this, they might accept that, oh sorry the card machine is up three flights of stairs, oh I don't think it's working today. Dear god! Just take my flippin' money.

If I did as Cobra said above and never handed my card over I'd be seriously rich by now and probably also in jail!
Click to expand...

Many a time a hand has been held out for my card. I simply ask for the machine. Never been refused yet.
 
boliston said:
I much prefer contactless than faffing about with a pin - I often use my card for quite small sums, eg a couple of quid for a tea or coffee and for small sums it makes sense, especially if you are protected against fraud. Ideally it could replace cash transactions altogether negating the risk of having to carry cash.
Click to expand...

I'd rather run the risk of being taken for ~£100 in cash, then having account comrpomised...
 
big soft moose said:
She needs to check that - our retail arm has it the other way round chip and pin costs more , because no phone call/ authorisation service is required for contactless as the card is preauthorised for up to 3 x £20 transactions per day - apparently the reader stores all the transactions till days end and then processes them all in one hit which is cheaper
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with your logic, and someone above said pre authorised for up to 3 x £20 per day, if it the big data dump at night, how would you (or I) know if 3 or 30 transactions in a day before say 5 pm?
 
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I tried to get MBNA to switch it off my card. They wouldn't! I told them any contactless payments aren't authorised as I will never use it.

It's totally insecure. Put purse/wallet on counter top, money can be taken from any in there. Hand card to waiting staff and they can waft the card over a hidden card reader in a pocket and take money. You could build a card reader into any surface that people are likely to put wallets/purses on and skim away money really easily. Put one on an ATM instead of the normal card skimmer. On public transport where everyone is crammed in you'd probably get a few skims from men's arse pockets.

It doesn't matter whether someone has a low limit. You aim to target as many people as possible so that increases your return and if you keep moving to different places it will be impossible to work out who did the theft. Funnel money into bank accounts and by the time someone has noticed the theft you've already emptied them in cash which they can't just take back electronically. This is why cash is king. Possession is everything. Electronic numbers don't exist outside of the banking system.

I can think of so many ways you can use this technology to take money from tens or hundreds of people in quick succession.
 
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your link 1 offers no mention on whether they managed to rip any card details?

your link 2 seems to say that the cards were physically stolen?

at the end of the day the RFID chip will have some data on it, exactly what that is i couldnt tell you but the readers seem to have some crypto processors in them which suggests its meaningless information unless you have the correct unlock key and/or its trasmitted to your bank for transaction approval perhaps.
 
You can buy RFID protection cases to prevent skim swipes. I've never authorised my card to work as contactless - maybe I should check at the bank to make sure it's not enabled automatically...
 
neil_g said:
by holding your card to the reader are you not offering your authorisation?
Click to expand...

So how come they can take the money ?
 
Gremlin said:
So how come they can take the money ?
Click to expand...

Because as Neil said, by offering your card for scanning you are, by that action, giving your authorisation.
 
Not what Neil said if you read it, he has questioned whether you are, and if I don't but want to put the pin in then surely I should be able to ?

neil_g said:
by holding your card to the reader are you not offering your authorisation?
Click to expand...
 
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Ingrid, you said in post #22
If you are happy with money coming out of your account without any authorisation from you that's fine,
I on the other hand would prefer it not to happen

Neil's posts points out (by way of question) that by having the card scanned you are giving your authorisation.

That's how I read it anyway.
 
You're not getting my point Ruth.
At no point when the card was taken and scanned did anyone mention it and had mine have been then
it wasn't by me, it was by the assistant.
So what if your card is stolen and you don't realise immediatley, is the fact that someone else has
offered it to be scanned taken as authorisation and if at that point you hadn't reported it would the bank believe you ?
I often use my card a couple of times when out shopping then might not use again for a few days, where would I stand on that if it was
used fraudulently before I realised it was gone ?
This system leaves things far to open to theft for my liking
 
if you don't want to make a contactless payment you say " I don't want to make a contact less payment - I want to use the chip and pin " simples

On the loss of the card , it makes no difference to the current situation - you are responsible for the security of your card and letting the bank know in a timely manner if its stolen or lost... if you loose the card and don't realise then thats your problem , the bank will expect you to keep a tighter hold of your card than that (and even a non contactless card could be used fraudulently for a card not present transaction by phone or internet - which is far more likely as the value isnt limited to £60 per day)
 
trencheel303 said:
If I did as Cobra said above and never handed my card over I'd be seriously rich by now and probably also in jail!
Click to expand...
Seems I don't use my card in same sort's of places you do,
I've never been asked for in since the day's of chip and pin
As I said above all that is a backward step.
With the advent of chip and pin,
the idea was that the card never left "our hands"
and the banks sold it to us on "security" reasons.

viv1969 said:
Many a time a hand has been held out for my card. I simply ask for the machine. Never been refused yet.
Click to expand...
As above and I see no reason why they should refuse you.
 
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