Consumer rights.

[plloydie]

Not too sure on this so I'm seeking guidance if possible.
My elderly mother bought a used rise and recliner chair from a local charity shop. The cost of the chair was £300. 45 days after the purchase the mount where the actuator fixes on to the frame of the chair has broken, the chair no longer works. The charity shop has said there is nothing they can do as no warranty on goods and no refunds. I'm sure there must be something I can do though, surely it's not fit for purpose as its no longer working. The chair was paid by debit card and bought in England (if it matters)

 

[Box Brownie]

An interesting and frustrating situation.

I think the CAB might have some guidance to offer.

Having said that ~ are charity shops covered in any way by the Sale of Goods Act?

If the response was from the individual shop, what does the Charity HQ have to say on the matter?

PS some information sites I have found...

Managing A Charity Shop Selling Used Goods? Avoid These Mistakes

Managing a charity shop can be a difficult task. It's important to be compliant when selling used goods to ensure you can continue running a charity shop.

www.thirdsectorprotect.co.uk

VCHAR7200 - Charity shops and sales of goods: Sale of donated goods - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Your consumer rights when you shop second-hand

Buying pre-owned can be cheaper and better for the planet, but do you have the same consumer rights?

www.goodhousekeeping.com

 

[srichards]

@plloydie

Looks like rights could be similar to when buying new so the charity shop should be looking at repairing the chair unless the item description or charity shop assistant said that now broken part was suspect.

Your consumer rights when you shop second-hand

Buying pre-owned can be cheaper and better for the planet, but do you have the same consumer rights?

www.goodhousekeeping.com

 

[plloydie]

Thanks for the reply. No mention of them checking anything apart from doing a pat test on the electrics. They pointed my mother to a local disabled aids business who came back with a quote of £274 for the repair. I have asked the shop to now only contact me as my mother was about to go ahead with the quote.

 

[Box Brownie]

Thanks for the reply. No mention of them checking anything apart from doing a pat test on the electrics. They pointed my mother to a local disabled aids business who came back with a quote of £274 for the repair. I have asked the shop to now only contact me as my mother was about to go ahead with the quote.

I hope you can come to an amicable solution?

In my speedy reading of the links I posted.....it seems they have a 30 days responsibility for unknown/undeclared faults at time of sale. So if that is their limit @45 days you could possibly be running into quicksand....all the more reason to get specific advice ~ fingers crossed in your favour

 

[plloydie]

An interesting and frustrating situation.

I think the CAB might have some guidance to offer.

Having said that ~ are charity shops covered in any way by the Sale of Goods Act?

If the response was from the individual shop, what does the Charity HQ have to say on the matter?

PS some information sites I have found...

Managing A Charity Shop Selling Used Goods? Avoid These Mistakes

Managing a charity shop can be a difficult task. It's important to be compliant when selling used goods to ensure you can continue running a charity shop.

www.thirdsectorprotect.co.uk

VCHAR7200 - Charity shops and sales of goods: Sale of donated goods - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK

www.gov.uk

Your consumer rights when you shop second-hand

Buying pre-owned can be cheaper and better for the planet, but do you have the same consumer rights?

www.goodhousekeeping.com

Thanks for the reply. It seems cover lasts for 30 days. My argument is a £300 chair should last more than 45 days. I have contacted the Charity and originally had a reply from the "quality and compliance officer" who said that the area manager would contact me. Several emails and a phone call and he still hasn't got in touch. This is probably one of the local areas biggest charity. I guess cab is the next step. Meanwhile my mother is £300 down and struggling to get in and out of a chair that is broke.

 

[Box Brownie]

A random thought ....

If the chair is a UK manufactured brand and in the light of the problem. ....could they help with an equitable low cost repair?

PS I surmise the chair is fully compliant re: the attached label indicating the foam and coverings are modern fire retardant materials....(the Charity AFAIK are only allowed to sell such compliant furniture!)

 

[ecoleman]

Thanks for the reply. It seems cover lasts for 30 days. My argument is a £300 chair should last more than 45 days. I have contacted the Charity and originally had a reply from the "quality and compliance officer" who said that the area manager would contact me. Several emails and a phone call and he still hasn't got in touch. This is probably one of the local areas biggest charity. I guess cab is the next step. Meanwhile my mother is £300 down and struggling to get in and out of a chair that is broke.

You bought it second hand so you can’t expect the same rights as you have when buying something new unless you can prove inherent fault. It’s unfortunate but a risk you take when buying used goods.

 

[plloydie]

A random thought ....

If the chair is a UK manufactured brand and in the light of the problem. ....could they help with an equitable low cost repair?

PS I surmise the chair is fully compliant re: the attached label indicating the foam and coverings are modern fire retardant materials....(the Charity AFAIK are only allowed to sell such compliant furniture!)

Its quiet a good brand hence the purchase. I'd fix it myself but the actuator seems to be over £200 alone. The brand is Sherbourne, I've been looking for an alternative make of actuator. The chair has a fire regs label.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Sherbourne rise and recliners start around £1200. So depending on condition, even with a repair it's decent value.

It's unfortunate that it broke a few weeks after your mother purchased it, but I'm not sure what good will come of going to war with a charity shop.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

At the end of the day, you've purchased a chair cheaply from a charity shop. There's always a risk that an old chair will have wear and tear and the fact you only paid a quarter of what the chair cost new then I'd say you still have a good deal once repaired. One must also keep in mind that this is a charity where the proceeds go to a charitable cause so I'm not sure they should be treated like a high street shop. You rolled the dice and on this occasion you didn't hit 6 but it was still your choice to roll it. You could have bought your mother a new chair instead.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

My own opinion is that a charity shop should behave in a charitable manner.

Why not go to the shop, talk to the manager(ess) and suggest you pay half the repair and they pay the other half?

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

My own opinion is that a charity shop should behave in a charitable manner.

Why not go to the shop, talk to the manager(ess) and suggest you pay half the repair and they pay the other half?

I'm sure they would have done had it been within the 30 days. After that it's the responsibility of the buyer so I'm not sure why they should fit the bill now, or even half of it.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I'm sure they would have done had it been within the 30 days. After that it's the responsibility of the buyer so I'm not sure why they should fit the bill now, or even half of it.

Because that would be the charitable thing to do?

 

[JonathanRyan]

Because that would be the charitable thing to do?

Well, it would take money from the charitable causes they were set up to support. So....

 

[srichards]

Using the which tool for second hand goods. It suggests the charity shop should be offering a repair or a replacement as it was between 31 days and 6 months since purchase.

Online marketplaces: what you need to know before you buy - Which?

Everything you need to know about the rise of online marketplaces, from Amazon and eBay to newcomers Temu, B&Q and Tesco

www.which.co.uk

The chair will have been donated at no cost to the charity. They still have to be reasonably responsible for the items they sell.

Managing A Charity Shop Selling Used Goods? Avoid These Mistakes

Managing a charity shop can be a difficult task. It's important to be compliant when selling used goods to ensure you can continue running a charity shop.

www.thirdsectorprotect.co.uk

Had it been nearer to several months use before it failed you'd chalk it up to experience but 6 weeks and the charity is taking no responsibility at all? Nope. Wouldn't put up with that when it was a £300 purchase.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Well, it would take money from the charitable causes they were set up to support. So....

That is one view.

The other is that charity is as charity does. A charity shop selling something to an elderly person for £300, which washes its hands of responibility, is not being very charitable.

 

[Suvv]

Consumer Rights on Second Hand Goods

What are your Consumer Rights when purchasing second hand goods in the UK? While used items cannot be expected to be the same standard as new, your right to a refund or replacement will depend on how, when and from where you bought the goods.

www.catalystlaw.co.uk

Within 30 days they must replace, within 6 months they can repair or replace, after 6 months you have to show that it was faulty.

They can always try and say that it was misuse and not a fault

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

That is one view.

The other is that charity is as charity does. A charity shop selling something to an elderly person for £300, which washes its hands of responibility, is not being very charitable.

But by “being charitable” you’re saying they should take responsibility even after their responsibility has ended. Why should they have to play by different rules to everybody else? Of course they could but I’m not sure it’s fair to expect them to. If, however, the law actually states they still have responsibility then of course they must step up to the mark.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Why should they have to play by different rules to everybody else?

Because they claim to be playing a different game to everyone else.

They recruit unpaid staff on the basis of carrying out a charitable purpose, advertise their intentions as charitable and, in some circumstances, qualify for tax relief as part of a charity. It seems inescapable that they should behave in appropriate ways. Why do you think they should not?

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

Because they claim to be playing a different game to everyone else.

They recruit unpaid staff on the basis of carrying out a charitable purpose, advertise their intentions as charitable and, in some circumstances, qualify for tax relief as part of a charity. It seems inescapable that they should behave in appropriate ways. Why do you think they should not?

Well, as far as I'm concerned, as long as they stay within the rules that apply to them then they are behaving appropriately. Every organisation has rules that govern their behaviour and charities are no different. If we suddenly say that they must go above and beyond those rules (and basically make up some rules that better suit our personal agendas) then chaos would ensue. The rules are there to keep charities correct. As long as they abide by them I don't expect them to do more than that. How charities employ or pay staff is really neither here nor there with regards this particular debate.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

... neither here nor there with regards this particular debate.

There is no debate - we simply have different opinions on morality and business practices.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

There is no debate - we simply have different opinions on morality and business practices.

You keep replying to snippets of my posts but not the entire post. I work for a homeless charity and daily we go above and beyond what the rules and laws would expect us to. That's fine and it's our choice to do that but I simply think it unfair to expect a charity to follow YOUR rules or expectations when those are not the ones that govern or guide it. We might "hope" that they would do so or wish that they would do so but we have no right to expect them to do so.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

We might "hope" that they would do so or wish that they would do so but we have no right to expect them to do so.

It's my experience that people are judged by their actions. On the evidence presented by Paul, at the beginning of this thread, the charity shop was not very charitable, at least by the definition generally used for the word.

As you seem to be a little upset by this conversation, I'll ignore you for a while, in the hope that you'll calm down.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

It's my experience that people are judged by their actions. On the evidence presented by Paul, at the beginning of this thread, the charity shop was not very charitable, at least by the definition generally used for the word.

As you seem to be a little upset by this conversation, I'll ignore you for a while, in the hope that you'll calm down.

Andrew, I'm not upset at all, so no need to ignore me. Debates like this are all about the tone that you attach to the post. Please read my posts with the kindness and respect with which they're written. I'm quite happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Nod]

Having seen how many elderly people hurl themselves into chairs, I'm not surprised they break.

 

[Craig1912]

I can’t see what the issue is. The chair wasn’t faulty when purchased. It has worked fine for 45 day’s And was perfectly fit for purpose when purchased. There Is nothing to say the OP’s mum hasn’t accidentally broken it. The money has gone to a good clause and the chair is repairable and will still have value when it has been repaired (at admittedly more cost than expected).

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

I can’t see what the issue is. The chair wasn’t faulty when purchased. It has worked fine for 45 day’s And was perfectly fit for purpose when purchased. There Is nothing to say the OP’s mum hasn’t accidentally broken it. The money has gone to a good clause and the chair is repairable and will still have value when it has been repaired (at admittedly more cost than expected).

My thoughts exactly.

 

[plloydie]

The charity has agreed to replace the chair. The mounting bracket for the motor to the frame had broken not an easy thing to do as it is of a metal construction. Unlikely my elderly mother could have done this as she can barely stand let alone turn over a heavy chair and some how break the mount. At the end of the day the chair cost the charity nothing so they are not out of pocket.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

The charity has agreed to replace the chair. The mounting bracket for the motor to the frame had broken not an easy thing to do as it is of a metal construction. Unlikely my elderly mother could have done this as she can barely stand let alone turn over a heavy chair and some how break the mount. At the end of the day the chair cost the charity nothing so they are not out of pocket.

A good decision on their part.

 

[THIRTYFIVEMILL]

A good decision on their part.

A very "charitable' decision on their part.

 

[Steep]

I can’t see what the issue is. The chair wasn’t faulty when purchased. It has worked fine for 45 day’s And was perfectly fit for purpose when purchased. There Is nothing to say the OP’s mum hasn’t accidentally broken it. The money has gone to a good clause and the chair is repairable and will still have value when it has been repaired (at admittedly more cost than expected).

Just for info if a product breaks in a matter of days it was not "fit for purpose". Had Paul's mother bought the chair in Scotland and it broke within 6 months the assumption is that the fault was pre-existing and they must repair, replace or refund.

 

[Suvv]

Just for info if a product breaks in a matter of days it was not "fit for purpose". Had Paul's mother bought the chair in Scotland and it broke within 6 months the assumption is that the fault was pre-existing and they must repair, replace or refund.

It is the same in England, it is a UK law.
See my post #18. Within 6 months it is up to the seller to show that the item was NOT faulty. After 6 months it is up to the buyer to show that it WAS faulty.