Constant hostility - how to handle?

At what point will you defend your right to take photos? What happens when you cant walk outside your door without the world turning you down or fronting you?

When do you stop photography, when the police say no? The person in the park running? When the house owner wont want their house in the frame?

You cant go to school to take pics of your kids. Local swimming pool? sports day? School play?

At what point are you not going to plead and beg a nobody to give you permission to use your camera in public?

Im sorry but the only way rights are taken away is when good men/women do nothing. I for one will not allow this to happen.

What happens when your asking "please i beg you, let me take a photo of your dog with a stick" and they say no? I for one would take the shot ........ what would you guys do?

There are togs that have died for this right of ours. War crimes caught on camera ..... although the other side said "dont take those shots".

Im sorry but this drip drip drip of our rights must be stopped and fought at every turn.

Dont take the shot ....... I for one will still be clicking away ....... even if it kills me.

and now I breath :)

T
 
Tokkelossi said:
Im sorry but this drip drip drip of our rights must be stopped and fought at every turn.

T
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so if I stood on the pavement outside your garden taking pictures of your kids or your girlfreind you'd be happy with that ?

how about if i used a long lens and took shots of you and your lady enjoying 'special time' through the bedroom window ?

Rights come with responsbilities attached - and one of the responsibilities that attaches to the right to photograph in public is the responsibility to think about how our actions effect the njoyment of those arround us - who have as much right to their hobbies and free enjoyment as we do to ours.
 
Never had any hassle taking photos but then again, I think the folk you take photos of, should have the last say!
 
Cyprino said:
I've taken a few sets of photos at skateparks, and always start by watching for a bit, kit in bag, then go up to one of the lads (or ladies!) and ask if it's cool to take a few pictures. Each time so far it's led to a conversation about what I do with the pics, and quite often they've later had a nose on facebook and they've got a new profile pic with my web address watermarked in the corner. Sorted!

I suppose it helps that I'm near enough the same age as most of them
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Thats my experience too and i'm old enough to be most of thems dad (i'm 38), course I look quite roughstreet which probably helps , plus my job means i'm used to talking to alsorts of folk so I dont come across as unsure

(and if they said no - I wont photograph them , but that hasnt happened yet)

Ive also had surfers come up to me on the beach and actively ask me to take their pic.
 
I too have been shouted at, ranted at, she threatened to call the police, etc, etc, so I said ok then close your bedroom curtains, see if I care.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:


Sorry, it's just my sense of humuor, which a lot of people seem to be losing recently.
 
Yes, you should be able to take peoples pictures without them hassling you.. on public property, at least.

But, people photography is all about engaging with your subject. Instead of just assuming they'll be cool with it, go over and introduce yourself. Get to know them. It does wonders, you know.

I think some people forget they were born with a tongue when they pick up a camera. Your personality is your main tool, the camera is secondary. Always.
 
big soft moose said:
so if I stood on the pavement outside your garden taking pictures of your kids or your girlfreind you'd be happy with that ?

how about if i used a long lens and took shots of you and your lady enjoying 'special time' through the bedroom window ?

Rights come with responsbilities attached - and one of the responsibilities that attaches to the right to photograph in public is the responsibility to think about how our actions effect the njoyment of those arround us - who have as much right to their hobbies and free enjoyment as we do to ours.
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I think the not so common, common sense comes in.

Taking pictures of someone elses children whilst they are playing in their own private garden would require some explaining.

Not closing the curtain whilst you are enjoying some special time for everyone to see, hmm bit different.

Taking photos in a public should not be frowned upon. Parent taking photos at school during a sports day or play etc. No problem at our school. A stranger with a big lens outside the school gates, no way.

To me it read like the OP perhaps got a little carried away and became too involved without engaging in actual contact.
 
I think it's basic manners to ask someone before you take their picture if they will be the centre of attention in the photo and/or it involves getting up close to them.
Lots of people on here talking about how it's their RIGHT and people shouldn't whinge at them about it. It really is people's right to have a whinge at someone who is distressing them too...
If someone was right in my face all of a sudden with a camera and they didn't stop when i asked them politely (which i would do) then the next thing i'd do is physically push them away.
 
dejongj said:
I think the not so common, common sense comes in.

Taking pictures of someone elses children whilst they are playing in their own private garden would require some explaining.

Not closing the curtain whilst you are enjoying some special time for everyone to see, hmm bit different.

Taking photos in a public should not be frowned upon. Parent taking photos at school during a sports day or play etc. No problem at our school. A stranger with a big lens outside the school gates, no way.

To me it read like the OP perhaps got a little carried away and became too involved without engaging in actual contact.
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I know that - i was just making an extreme example to illustrate the flaws in tokkelossi's argument that we should stand up for our right to take photos in public in all circumstances

so so long as i'm standing on public land he should have no problem with me using a long lens to photograph his girlfreind sunbathing in a bikini then posting the shots in the N&G forum ( a theoretical example I have no intention of actuially doing anything of the kind)
 
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I just don't agree with your interpretation of what he was saying, I don't think he is saying that at all.

Werecow, if you ask before your take the picture the moment is already gone isn't it? People behave differently when they are aware of what is happening. I think the whole part of street photography is the unknown element, the lack of modelling. But that is just me I guess.

Now if you start taking loads, and really become a precense and then up close and personal it turns into a whole difference slightly freaky situation.
 
dejongj said:
Werecow, if you ask before your take the picture the moment is already gone isn't it? People behave differently when they are aware of what is happening. I think the whole part of street photography is the unknown element, the lack of modelling. But that is just me I guess.
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The problem is, people don't do anything interesting in the street. Hence constant photos of people smoking, carrying bags of shopping.. whoop de whoop!

The best street shots have always been posed, or the person made aware of the photographers presence.
 
Well in that case why have this conversation, it is a mute point then.
 
I was just giving my personal view on how i do it and what my reaction to being on the recieving end would be too. If the photo is lost then so be it (i'd rather lose a photo than make someone uncomfortable).

I agree the continued presence right up personal with someone is far worse without any dialogue.
I think the situation the person is in matters as well. For instance if someone is really displaying themselves in some way then they've got a lesser case to avoid having a photo taken. I still believe permission should be asked for a continued personal space presence though, unless it's extreme cases like an actual public performance the person is giving.


dejongj said:
I just don't agree with your interpretation of what he was saying, I don't think he is saying that at all.

Werecow, if you ask before your take the picture the moment is already gone isn't it? People behave differently when they are aware of what is happening. I think the whole part of street photography is the unknown element, the lack of modelling. But that is just me I guess.

Now if you start taking loads, and really become a precense and then up close and personal it turns into a whole difference slightly freaky situation.
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Courtesy, in my humble opinion, is important here.

Whilst the OP was not acting illegally, it did strike me.a being somewhat rude - I ALWAYS check with photographic subjects before enshrining their image forever on my computer, even my closest friends and family. But that's just me... And I don't do street photography, because I don't find it very interesting. I'll admire a good photo, but if it means nothing to me, it will never go up on my wall...
 
Life is simple....here we go..

If it upsets you so much... find another hobby...

Why should you have to? well because it upsets you so much thats why.. why should they win? because you got upset.. Why don't they stop? yeagh good luck wiht that.. its the way of the world I am afraid and if you can't handle it then see above.. the bit in bold..

Thats my opinion :)
 
purpleclouds said:
The problem is, people don't do anything interesting in the street. Hence constant photos of people smoking, carrying bags of shopping.. whoop de whoop!

The best street shots have always been posed, or the person made aware of the photographers presence.
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They generally don't do much of interest but now and then there can be great juxtapositions or a great facial expression. Interesting moments are rare though.

If I were to do street photography it would be with a long lens well out of the way, kind of like getting squirrels or birds....
 
purpleclouds said:
The problem is, people don't do anything interesting in the street. Hence constant photos of people smoking, carrying bags of shopping.. whoop de whoop!

The best street shots have always been posed, or the person made aware of the photographers presence.
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I think people are getting mixed up with street shots and candids...
 
KIPAX said:
I think people are getting mixed up with street shots and candids...
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..and street candids ;)

Regardless, yes you have the right to take anyones picture. But believe it or not, they have every right to be stroppy with you. Whether you are 5ft away with your 50mm or 50ft away with you 500mm. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen (as you have said now I've read it :nuts:).

Or try another approach.
 
gazza2168 said:
I too have been shouted at, ranted at, she threatened to call the police, etc, etc, so I said ok then close your bedroom curtains, see if I care.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:


Sorry, it's just my sense of humuor, which a lot of people seem to be losing recently.
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And next time we will call them :lol::lol:
 
Urban Grimshaw said:
If I walked around where I live, and started taking photos of people, getting in their faces...

I'd get stabbed.

By no means do two wrongs make a right, but a little common sense and courtesy will work wonders, t'is all I'm saying.
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Sound a nice place to live :D
 
pretty much there were correct. I'd have been much more colourful with my response to you lol




lightsource said:
Hi,

So I'm used to constantly being made to feel like a weirdo, an annoyance or a criminal, whenever I'm taking photos. And today was one of those occasions.

There's a large (~20), ever-shifting group of skateboarders doing their thing by the side of a busy public street in a VERY touristy area. Lots of people stopping by to take photos, including me.

Everything's fine until I get a teeny bit bolder. Having seen some other commuters etc walking right in amongst them, and reflecting on the fact that it's 100% a public space, I walk along the edge of a barrier to creep a little closer. I'm about 15 feet away with my Canon DSLR and 50mm lens, when one of them starts shouting at me: "Hey, WTF are you doing? Why are you taking my photo? I'm not even doing anything right now! You can't do that!". Another guy chips in: "You're so disrespectful!".

I wanted to explain what I was doing and hear their perspective, out of genuine interest, so I walk up and ask "Why is it disrespectful? Skateboarding is your sport, photography's mine - we're just doing our thing. There are so many of you I couldn't really ask for everyone's permission!"

But I couldn't reason with them one bit. They kept insisting that it was "disrespectful" to take photos "without even asking", and then turned nasty, shouting "P**** perv" repeatedly. They were all grown men, incidentally, as am I. After the "disrespectful" comment that seemed a tad ironic...

Perhaps some people would argue it's better to walk away and not stand your ground, but I am SO tired of being heckled, intimidated or talked down to (I do photography professionally a little bit), that I was not going to just sheepishly skulk away. My mistake was thinking that we could have an adult conversation about it.

Anyway the long and short is, I sometimes wonder if any other (legal) hobby causes quite so much hostility. The more people talk to me like a cross between a paedophile, a stalker and a gutter pap, the more I feel like rubbish - that kind of sick and guilty feeling inside, even though I've done absolutely nothing wrong. Sometimes it makes me want to give up completely!

How do other people deal with this? Am I being too thin skinned or is it a common feeling?
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Appreciate the new comments about this, and I agree with all the remarks that I got too close, spent too long and should ideally have asked if they were cool with it.

Just to be clear, I stopped taking photos as soon as I was asked (/yelled abuse at). And I would have asked for permission if it seemed possible without being a pain in the arse, but that would have involved either shouting into the large crowd of skateboarders, or weaving my way between them (trying to avoid collisions) to pick out one or two people to talk to, which would have been very awkward and slightly beyond my level of self-confidence amongst very large groups of strangers.

Also I think the analogies about photographing people in back gardens or eating lunch on a bench are unfair. Don't forget this was a massive touristy area with lots of street activity and performance, and lots of cameras everywhere, so I didn't feel intrusive or rude, although obviously that's how it was perceived.

However, being totally honest with myself, there was definitely a part of me that was whispering into my ear: "screw hanging so far back, just go for it, you've every right to and it's flattering to take an interest in what they're doing. It's just going to be awkward and embarrassing if you disturb them to ask for permission".

Living and learning...
 
POAH said:
pretty much there were correct. I'd have been much more colourful with my response to you lol
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You'd have been more colourful with your response than calling me a "f*^&ing P**** perv"? What would you have said?! :eek:
 
lightsource said:
Just to be clear, I stopped taking photos as soon as I was asked (/yelled abuse at). And I would have asked for permission if it seemed possible without being a pain in the arse, but that would have involved either shouting into the large crowd of skateboarders, or weaving my way between them (trying to avoid collisions) to pick out one or two people to talk to, which would have been very awkward and slightly beyond my level of self-confidence amongst very large groups of strangers.

Also I think the analogies about photographing people in back gardens or eating lunch on a bench are unfair. Don't forget this was a massive touristy area with lots of street activity and performance, and lots of cameras everywhere, so I didn't feel intrusive or rude, although obviously that's how it was perceived.

However, being totally honest with myself, there was definitely a part of me that was whispering into my ear: "screw hanging so far back, just go for it, you've every right to and it's flattering to take an interest in what they're doing. It's just going to be awkward and embarrassing if you disturb them to ask for permission".

Living and learning...
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Yes, we have 'the right' to take photographs in public places. A term that is bandied around way too much on these forums. With that 'right', is also a responsibility to conduct ourselves accordingly. Social skills are an important aspect of many areas of photography. The ability to make your subjects feel comfortable.

Don't get me wrong, I can completely sympathise: I wasn't blessed with the greatest of social skills myself, which is one of the main reasons I never pursued a career in photography. I can understand the situation fully.

But having also been on the other side of the fence, as a skateboarder, and a fairly self-conscious one at that, I can say I don't like been watched at the best of times. Never mind being the center focus of a camera. I've had people ask, and take photographs, and that I've been fine with...even if a little uncomfortable. I've even had people ask if they can just sit and watch for a while - it's polite.

If someone just comes in, starts taking pictures from every angle, putting you specifically in the spotlight, and not saying a word, I, myself, would perceive that to be quite weird. It makes for an awkward social situation. A little friendly interaction generally breaks down those barriers.

As I say, these guys aren't entertainers. Nor a deliberate tourist attraction. But merely there to enjoy some of the architecture on offer. Yeah, they get used to a little attention in the busier areas, and become quite tolerant of it. A lot of the time, they will appreciate that people are taking a positive view of what they're doing having received an equal amount of harassment for it - I've often had pictures taken, claimed to be sent to the police! If you want to put them right in the spotlight, I'd recommend a few friendly words first. They might tell you where to go, but that's life...just move on and shoot someone else.
 
Hey if you don't like people watching, best do it in the privacy of your own private grounds. That is my philosophy.
 
lightsource said:
You'd have been more colourful with your response than calling me a "f*^&ing P**** perv"? What would you have said?! :eek:
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unfortunately in life some people are just 'holes - so you can ask as nicely as you want and some prats will still shout abuse at you - if they do its best to just leave them to it

that aside what i'd tend to do with a big group is watch for a bit then pick out one skater (preferably one who seems dominant in the group) and stroll up and ask him nicely if its cool to take photos - if he says yeas no problem then you'll be fine

if he says no , then dont

if he turns out to be an ass then walk away

simples
 
Urban Grimshaw said:
Don't get me wrong, I can completely sympathise: I wasn't blessed with the greatest of social skills myself, which is one of the main reasons I never pursued a career in photography.
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Easy there fella, I have social skills, thanks :p

In fact I ask peoples' permission to take their photo all the time in my job. Just that, a I said, this large and fast-moving group felt slightly out of my comfort zone so as it wasn't strictly necessary to ask permission, I didn't. But next time I'll do things differently!
 
Just chalk it up to experience.

For what it's worth I don't think anyone has the right to take photos in such situations - if I was the subject of the photography I'd want to be asked.

It may have been idea to pick out the person/s who you really wanted to take pics of and ask their permission (even by gesturing) - you never know they may have engaged with you and shown off more tricks - there again they may have told you to FO :-)
 
E17phil said:
Just chalk it up to experience.

For what it's worth I don't think anyone has the right to take photos in such situations - if I was the subject of the photography I'd want to be asked.

It may have been idea to pick out the person/s who you really wanted to take pics of and ask their permission (even by gesturing) - you never know they may have engaged with you and shown off more tricks - there again they may have told you to FO :-)
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Be carful they might be trying to steal your soul :suspect:
 
lightsource said:
You'd have been more colourful with your response than calling me a "f*^&ing P**** perv"? What would you have said?! :eek:
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we never had paedos when I was younger lol
 
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