Considering new PC and Monitor

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whiteflyer

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I am considering buying a new pc and monitor, I have looked at Dell and quite fancy the system below.

I would like to ask are Dell monitor suitable for photo work.

PROCESSOR Premium Chassis - Intel® 2 Quad-Core™ Processor Q6600 (2.40GHz, 1066MHz, 8MB cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium - English edit
MONITOR Dell™ 24" Black Wide Flat Panel (E248WFP) - UK/Irish
MEMORY 4096MB 667MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM [4x1024]
HARD DRIVE 640GB Dual Hard Drive Raid 0 Stripe (2x320GB - 7200rpm)
GRAPHICS CARD SINGLE 768MB nVidia® GeForce® 8800 GTX graphics card
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD +/- RW Drive
KEYBOARD Dell™ Enhanced USB Multimedia Keyboard - UK/Irish (QWERTY)
MOUSE Dell Optical Scroll Premium Mouse
Accessories
SOUND SOFTWARE Sound Blaster® X-Fi Xtreme Gamer PCI Soundcard
SPEAKERS No Speakers
 
Just slightly. :lol:

You won't have any problems with that editing photos. Do you play games though as if you don't you could easily get away with spending a lot less on a couple of components? :)
 
Amp34 said:
Just slightly. :lol:

You won't have any problems with that editing photos. Do you play games though as if you don't you could easily get away with spending a lot less on a couple of components? :)
Click to expand...

What are games ?

I have 3 games F1 2002, Unreal Tournament & Flight Sim 2004. :lol:

I don't want to waste money, but then again I don't want to spend on upgrades again for a loooong time.
 
Well if you have the option to change the spec then maybe change the graphics card to a cheaper one as I think that is pretty much the best card on the market at the moment, way above what you would need. :)

Other than that if you have the money spare that's a very good machine and it most certainly will last you a loooong time. :)
 
thing with a dell is they can be quite limited for cheap upgrades. You also can rarely overclock them to get more bang for buck. I hear these dual and quad core processors overclock well, without any need for extra cooling if you don't push them too far. Some companies sell them overclocked already.

I always buy very very cheap dells when an offer comes along as they're almost like disposible computing, but I wouldn't want to spend a decent amount of cash on one. I'd tend to spend my money on something with a future proof motherboard with a bit more room for overclocking.
 
I would agree. Look elsewhere in their ranges and go for something with a 8400-8600.

The rest of the system is upto the task but what you save dropping to maybe a 8500 would pay the difference between the monitor on your list and Dell's FAR better 2407 model!

I would have a good look round, how much is that particular setup?

Ram, primary HD, processor etc all good. Is there space for a third internal drive? 640Gb sounds a lot but with RAW files it will go quickly and RAID 0 arrays are not the most trouble free solutions so an external backup would be good too
 
Your spec looks more than mine, and I bought mine for gaming. I have the 8800GTX and it's an awesome card, but if you don't play games, it's most definitely overkill. You could probably spend half the money on a card and still be able to do what you want. If I understand right (and that's far from certain), most of the graphical overhead in Photoshop is CPU and RAM, not GPU, so the graphics card makes little difference.

The processor looks nice and the ram is a good amount, as Photoshop is very memory hungry, although you could consider getting the faster 800Mhz stuff ... iirc, the multi-core Intel chips care little about ram timings, but do work better with faster FSBs.

I've had the Dell 24" Widescreen monitor for about a year or so, and it's amazing. Unfortunately, I'm not sure they make the same model any more. I did hear that the successor wasn't quite as hot. I have the 2407WFP, so it might be worth checking for reviews of the Dell model that's currently available.

Personally, I've never RAIDed my hard drives. I have a 160Gb (Windows drive), a 200Gb (Data drive), an 80Gb (Photos drive ... will get a bigger one when I run out), and a 500Gb external for data-backup. I'd recommend getting a smaller, much faster hard drive for Windows (a 100Gb Raptor, or something like that) and then a couple of high-capacity drives for your data ... ideally one internal and one external with the internal one backing up data to the external.

The sound card is overkill. An Audigy would definitely be good enough, and to be honest, onboard sound these days is often good enough. I'd suggest going with onboard sound and then if you feel you need it, buying a soundcard later.

Generally, I don't think you can go wrong with what you have, but I do think you have the potential to optimise it, if that makes sense :)
 
Get the fastest processor you can afford and the best memory to go with it, these are the two things that will make your new pc fly and last longest before you feel the need to upgrade again.
Lose Vista and go with XP if you are able to, I agree with the others re graphics card, an 8800gtx is way more than you need if you're not playing games and tbh even if you are...
Bit pointless buying any sound card with no speakers, dakid is right the Audigy is a great card and I doubt that you'd be able to tell the difference. An Audigy and some decent 5.1 or 7.1 speakers would serve you better.
 
Get something cheaper than the GTX even if you do play games, because it really aint worth the money. As Steep said, XP is king at the moment. Nowadays onboard sound is high quality if you want to save some money in that aspect. I'm not sure about the need for Raid 0, I doubt you'll see any benefit of using such a system. That processor will do amazing things though for photo work etc.
 
I have had a quick look on Dell's site. It looks like you are considering the Dimension XPS 420 (D01X405) with the 4Gb option and sound card upgrade which comes to £999.01 WITHOUT the monitor OR an extra £300 WITH the monitor.

Why not look at the XPS 420 (D01X412) with the 4Gb option (with the 8600GTS which is still FAR more than you need but will cover any monitor etc), this comes to £719.01 with the same processor and hard drive arrangement. The monitor you WERE considering is the E248 but this is just a consumer model and not a patch on the 2407wfp hc. You can buy this elsewhere for £422 (from Scan but cheaper still if you look round).

You will get no benefit from the higher spec video card. Photoshop will use the card for some calculations but it will still make little or no difference. Your monitor REALLY will make a difference. I use the 2407 and when I bought a calibrator I found that the Dell was virtually spot on to begin with!

The D01X412 plus 2407 comes to £1141 rather than £1299. For another £224 you can get the 27" version of the monitor ie 2707 which comes in at £1365 just over £68 more than your original spec with with a superb large monitor! You might even find the even larger 3007 at a good price because the 3008 has just been released.

Whatever you decide on the monitor side the 412 is certainly up to what you need. If you do want an upgrade on the sound card consider the audigy upgrade at £11.75 for listening to music etc....
 
Raid Stripe 0 is risky.

This amalgamates your drives into 1 big drive for best performance. Unfortunately if you lose 1 drive you lose all data.

a better option would be for a mirrored raid array which if one drive fails data is retained on the other.

Or combine both with Raid 0 + 1 giving you the performance benefit of striping with the added sercurity of mirroring.
 
PsiFox said:
Raid Stripe 0 is risky.

This amalgamates your drives into 1 big drive for best performance. Unfortunately if you lose 1 drive you lose all data.

a better option would be for a mirrored raid array which if one drive fails data is retained on the other.

Or combine both with Raid 0 + 1 giving you the performance benefit of striping with the added sercurity of mirroring.
Click to expand...

I agree, which is why I mentioned the backup drive in an earlier post but unfortunately they don't offer options other than this. The easiest solution is a large backup drive which would leave the speed of the RAID0 array in place with the added security of a backup. Even with RAID 0+1 if something deletes a vital file it is still gone. The RAID 0+1 together with a backup drive is a even better solution and you can pick up a 320Gb drive for about £35 so IF there is space for 4 drives in the computer the RAID 0 could be turned into RAID 0+1 for the £35 then a large backup drive could be added in slot 4. Most large PC cases will take 4 drives even if 1 or 2 have to be placed into 5.25" bays using an adapter!
 
cowasaki said:
I agree, which is why I mentioned the backup drive in an earlier post but unfortunately they don't offer options other than this. The easiest solution is a large backup drive which would leave the speed of the RAID0 array in place with the added security of a backup. Even with RAID 0+1 if something deletes a vital file it is still gone. The RAID 0+1 together with a backup drive is a even better solution and you can pick up a 320Gb drive for about £35 so IF there is space for 4 drives in the computer the RAID 0 could be turned into RAID 0+1 for the £35 then a large backup drive could be added in slot 4. Most large PC cases will take 4 drives even if 1 or 2 have to be placed into 5.25" bays using an adapter!
Click to expand...

sorry missed your comment earlier.

Whatever the o p chooses I would always have the external back up anyway.

In fact I back up to both external HDD storage and optical disk.

Periodically I also take a copy off site againt the worst possible scenario, but then I work from home too.
 
if he changed the spec from vista to XP would 4GB of RAM be too much?

is 667MHz RAM worth upgrading to something faster given the rest of the spec?

mirrored hard drives (raid 1) are a lot safer for data than striped (raid 0). The advantage of raid 0 is they give you faster bulk data transfer rates, eg loading large game map data or streaming video, but access speed is still basically the same so for small files and occasional drive access it'll be no better.

If you do go with raid 1 then ideally a mirrored system should not use hard drives of the same batch (likely to fail close together) and is what you'll probably get from a production line assembly like dell. Also they need to be formatted to slightly reduced capacity because a replacement drive of the same nominal size may not have quite as much capacity available when its formatted so will not be able to restore the array. Also some hardware raid controllers use their own proprietary drive formatting, it may not be a problem in raid 1 mirror, but if you are looking at striped systems such as raid 0 or raid 0+1 or raid 10 or raid 5 (3 disk system) then you need to be aware that a dead hardware raid controller (rare but possible) may prevent you accessing any of your drives unless you can replace it with the exact same type of controller.
Of course I found out all this after I set up a pc with hardware raid on 2 identical same manufacturer same batch drives bought together and formatted to their maximum capacity :bang:
I now have a big external drive on USB for backup duty (so its normally disconnected, that way it can't be hacked, virused or blown up by the pc drive controller or PSU going bang).

if you really want super fast hard drives with quick access and have the money then a pair of raid 1 Raptor drives as your main data drive are probably the way to go. eg. http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=325630
10,000rpm and 4.6ms access
with a 500GB USB external for periodic backup.
 
I'd stick with Vista TBH, it is the newest version of Windows and has been out long enough that most of the bugs have been ironed out (I have had it since Beta so have seen it progress). There are people who have issues with it but the vast majority of people don't, especially when it's preinstalled on a machine as the main issue people have is hardware incompatability. And yes I think XP home will only recognise up to 3Gb of ram, Professional would be fine with it though. :)
 
How many of you guys actually have Raid 0 or 0+1?
I mean, you DO have to backup to external media if you want to be safer in case of a failure anyway, so raid 0+1 is just more of a placebo for ordinary desktop users.

The configuration for the PC in the first post is quite fine, getting an 8600 GT is a more sensible option, since it proves to me that replacing an ageing gfx card after, say, a year or two by another, more powerful midrange model will save you a bit of money and give you new features, while you should be able to play most new games at about 1280x1024 without AA or anisotropic filtering. And the bloody bloom effect off (I hate that one).

People are unlikely to upgrade their CPUs, but I think that the Q6600 should be enough for at least two years from now for most things. Besides, new RAM standard might come and you might have to upgrade the whole thing anyway.
 
Slapo said:
How many of you guys actually have Raid 0 or 0+1?
I mean, you DO have to backup to external media if you want to be safer in case of a failure anyway, so raid 0+1 is just more of a placebo for ordinary desktop users.

The configuration for the PC in the first post is quite fine, getting an 8600 GT is a more sensible option, since it proves to me that replacing an ageing gfx card after, say, a year or two by another, more powerful midrange model will save you a bit of money and give you new features, while you should be able to play most new games at about 1280x1024 without AA or anisotropic filtering. And the bloody bloom effect off (I hate that one).

People are unlikely to upgrade their CPUs, but I think that the Q6600 should be enough for at least two years from now for most things. Besides, new RAM standard might come and you might have to upgrade the whole thing anyway.
Click to expand...

I have RAID 0 on one volume. They are LESS reliable due to the fact that the information is irretrievable if either drive fails so straight away you are TWICE (or 3 or 4 times dependent on the config) as likely to have a failure plus with RAID you also have the possibility of something going wrong with the config and breaking both drives! It is quicker (upto X2, X3 or X4) the speed on a continuous transfer so it is an advantage. So just have to be sensible about these things and make sure you back up well.
 
PsiFox said:
sorry missed your comment earlier.

Whatever the o p chooses I would always have the external back up anyway.

In fact I back up to both external HDD storage and optical disk.

Periodically I also take a copy off site againt the worst possible scenario, but then I work from home too.
Click to expand...

Sounds like my solution! I have time machine running to a 2nd drive on the mac Pro. I also backup to an external Lacie RAID1 array plus I have about 20 DVDs at work with another backup!
 
Thanks everyone, looks like I have a bit more thinking to do.

There is not a huge price difference in having the top spec graphics card than one lower down. As I understand it the dell allows the hard drives to be raid 0 or raid 1 .

Looks like it maybe worth looking elsewhere for a monitor.

What every I get it will be better than my current set-up

Winxp
2.5 Pentium 4
512mb ram
ati 7200 graphics card
120 mb hard drive
 
120mb hard drive? You sure you dont mean gigglybytes?
 
I know you are all talking PC WIndows based.. Have you thought about the imac - I know so many pro photographers use the mac and say it is the best for editing speed etc. I know you system seems the business...

I saw a 24" imac yesterday 500gb hard drive 2.8ghz and 4gb ram all for £2000. The quality of the system and screen in particular was absolutely fantastic..

Just wondered what peoples thoughts were - PC or Mac??
 
cowasaki said:
So just have to be sensible about these things and make sure you back up well.
Click to expand...

That was exactly my point.

Marcel said:
120mb hard drive? You sure you dont mean gigglybytes?
Click to expand...

Steve Jobs made a mistake like this at the Macworld 2008 keynote. And this year's keynote's been rubbish. Pure ego pumping :p

whiteflyer said:
Thanks everyone, looks like I have a bit more thinking to do.

There is not a huge price difference in having the top spec graphics card than one lower down. As I understand it the dell allows the hard drives to be raid 0 or raid 1 .

Looks like it maybe worth looking elsewhere for a monitor.

What every I get it will be better than my current set-up

Winxp
2.5 Pentium 4
512mb ram
ati 7200 graphics card
120 mb hard drive
Click to expand...

Add another 512 MB of RAM and it'll rock on for a while as a second computer.
When Windows XP's support ends, you can just install Linux on it.
It'll serve you well, just remember it's not Windows and it's not a Mac OS.

As for the monitor, if you want to go for quality, get a decent 20" Eizo or NEC. If you don't care so much about the quality, then you can go higher.
The HP 2465 wasn't bad, but I didn't have the chance to try photo editing on it. Dad's cousin has one.
 
EOS40D_isme said:
Just wondered what peoples thoughts were - PC or Mac??
Click to expand...

Is that a call for a flamewar? ;)

PCs and Macs share most of the hardware these days. Displays seem to be a bit of an exception, but they're not that difficult to replace.
The main difference now seems to be the OS (I've tried the Mac OS X briefly and it was rubbish).
On non-Apple computers, you shouldn't have much of a problem running Windows, Linux, *BSD or Solaris, on Apple's machines, this seems to be a bit quirky.

It seems to me Apple makes a rather closed system. That should enable them to optimise the OS for particular hardware of their computers (not peripherals) a bit better, imo.

On the other hand, non-Apple PCs are more about choice.
 
boxman2000 said:
Na, you want it 24" or larger to get the most out of 1080p
Click to expand...

Wouldn't a TV be better suited for HDTV (provided it's HDTV capable)?

I don't advise getting anything with viewing angles below 176/176 degrees.
With larger screens, it's bound to show unless you only stare at the centre of the screen and don't move around much.
 
whiteflyer said:
What every I get it will be better than my current set-up

Winxp
2.5 Pentium 4
512mb ram
ati 7200 graphics card
120 mb hard drive
Click to expand...

BETTER ????
not a lot wrong with that, I've just upgraded to something pretty close to that. Just add more RAM and add a big data drive for a boost.
If its slow its probably because of all the useless software crud that you don't need but gets loaded & runs in the background,
also when did you last defragment the drive?
 
Marcel said:
120mb hard drive? You sure you dont mean gigglybytes?
Click to expand...

LOL maybe your right.

EOS40D_isme said:
I know you are all talking PC WIndows based.. Have you thought about the imac - I know so many pro photographers use the mac and say it is the best for editing speed etc. I know you system seems the business...

I saw a 24" imac yesterday 500gb hard drive 2.8ghz and 4gb ram all for £2000. The quality of the system and screen in particular was absolutely fantastic..Mac??
Click to expand...

If I move to mac it would mean another £700 for Lightroom and Photoshop ( I can't transfer the licence, I dont have one :nono: )

boxman2000 said:
I'd build one if I were you.

If you don't want to build one then possibly this may be cheaper than direct from Dell:-

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-031-AC&groupid=595&catid=670&subcat=
or something from here:-
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?groupid=595&catid=670

I've been using these guys for years with no complaints at all!


Na, you want it 24" or larger to get the most out of 1080p
Click to expand...

The days when I want to fiddle inside a computer have long gone, but I'll have a look at the links.
 
Fair enough ... The licenses for Photoshop are almost ridiculous in price. Gd Luck with the one you get. I must update mine soon as gonna spend more time PP.. and a laptop is no where near good enough !!
 
whiteflyer said:
If I move to mac it would mean another £700 for Lightroom and Photoshop ( I can't transfer the licence, I dont have one :nono: )
Click to expand...

If you don't have a license then why do you need to spend £700 on software if you change to Mac? :wave:

If you're vaguely open minded then i really wouldn't just ignore the Mac option :)
 
Great spending other peoples money innit? I'm not going to go into what everyone else has covered except to say check which version of Vista you are getting, 32 bit or 64 bit. If it's 64 bit then make sure you can get any 64bit drivers needed for any extra hardware you have, ie; printers/modems. I have the 64 bit Vista premium and had to buy another adsl modem/router cos my old D-Link which was ok with XP had no 64 bit drivers and was not going to be supported by D-Link. A lot more drivers are available now than there was last year. I've been using Vista since Sept' last year and it has'nt crashed once.
 
Matt. said:
If you don't have a license then why do you need to spend £700 on software if you change to Mac? :wave:

If you're vaguely open minded then i really wouldn't just ignore the Mac option :)
Click to expand...


Oh I'm open minded, and love the look of a Mac, but what would I get for the £1000 / £1200 price range
 
I agree about OcUK. Used to be exemplary many years ago, but a management chance a few years ago changed it all very dramatically.

I'd suggest maybe looking somewhere other than Dell. They do great monitors, but they're not the only good-quality company out there. I've been using Scan for many years, and I custom-built my system from parts bought from them. They also do fully-built systems, and I've had a quick configure of one ... this might be something to consider:

Configurable yourself at http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ConfigureSystem.asp?SystemID=641

Base Specifications

Coolermaster Centurion RC-534 Black Tower Case
Asus P5N-E SLI, NF650i SLi, S 775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 533/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX
620W Corsair HX Series Modular SLi PSU, ATX, EPS 12V, whisper quiet, 5 year warranty
120mm Akasa Amber Case Fan, 3 Pin, 2 Ball Bearing , Ultra Quiet and Long life
50cm 3XS Round Floppy Drive Cable Certified
Scan 3XS System - 1year Onsite Warranty (Mainland UK)
3XS Backup (Trueimage V10) Complete Back and System Restore
Scan System Configuration
Ahead Nero v7 - Essentials Suite 1 *OEM for Data, Audio, Photo, Video and TV
3XS/Intel Gaming System
90cm Round IDE (PATA) Cable BLACK *UV* Newlink (NLRB-399UVK)
45cm Newlink SATAII (SATA300) Cable Blue *UV* (NLRB-304UV)
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound for CPU and Chipset Coolers
Scan System Configuration (Details confirmed at checkout stage)

Options
Qty Selected Specifications
1 *No Custom Colour Required*
1 Intel Core 2 Duo E6550, S775, 2.33 GHz, 1333MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 4MB Cache, Retail
1 Zalman CNPS9700-NT nVidia Tritium Super Aero Flower Cooler
2 2Gb (2X1Gb) CorsairTwinX XMS2, DDR2 PC6400 (800), 240 Pins, Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 5-5-5-12
1 256MB XFX 8600GTS, PCI-E (x16), Mem 2000 MHz, GDDR3, GPU 675 MHz, 2x Dual Link DVI-I/HDTV, HDCP
1 *No ATI VGA Card Required* (nVidia required)
1 74 Gb Western Digital Raptor, SATA, 10000 rpm, 16MB Cache
1 500 GB Seagate ST3500320AS Barracuda 7200.11, SATA II, 7200 rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.5 ms, NCQ
1 500GB Western Digital My Book Premium Combo USB 2.0/Firewire 400, 8MB Cache
1 Heisei Black Floppy Disk +Int Combo All in 1 Card Reader Fits 3.5" Bay USB2
1 LiteOn x16 DVD x48 CD SATA black DVD-ROM Oem Bare Drive.
1 Optiarc (Sony/NEC) AD-7170S-0B 18x DVD±R, 8x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, DVD-RAM x12, SATA, Black, OEM
1 *No Soundcard Required* (Onboard option only)
1 *No M/M Card Required*
1 ***NO MODEM/ADSL REQUIRED***
1 ***NO WIRELESS ADAPTOR REQUIRED***
1 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 32Bit
1 ** No Remote Control Required **
1 NVIDIA DVD - Bronze edition - Dolby 2.1
1 Microsoft Office Home and Student 2007 Win32 English CD *RETAIL*
1 AVG AntiVirus Pro 2 Year Full Retail Version
1 24" Dell 2407WFP-HC Silver/Black Widescreen LCD, 1920x1200, 1000:1, 400 cd/m2, 6 ms, VESA :clap:
1 *No Software Required*
1 Microsoft Black Optical Value Pack V2 - Multimedia Keyboard & Intelli Optical Mouse
1 *Gaming Mouse Not Required*
1 Creative Inspire Black T3100 2.1 Speaker System
1 *Heaphones Not Required*
1 AcoustiPack Deluxe (v2) Acoustic Material Kit
1 Standard 3XS System Warranty

Price
Net Total £1,406.01
V.A.T £246.05
Total £1,652.06
 
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