Conned by leading national retailer

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how much????:p
 
Ok I have got the general census of what you are all saying. What everyone is forgetting that I, unlike some others, have to save hard to purchase a camera like this. When you go into a so called "reputable " shop to purchase a NEW camera, you don't expect to be palmed off with a camera at least 6 months old and with 1800 shutter actuactions.

This is NOT my business and is only a hobby, if I treated my clients within my industry like this I wouldn't get a second chance to redeem myself , I would loose my clients, my reputation, and eventually my business built up over many years.

In the present economic climate where shops are closing on a daily basis and hundreds of people loosing their jobs, those still in work should make an extra effort to make sure the goods they are selling are as stated and advertised, or be prepared to accept the consequences.

As everyone has their own opinion either for or against, I feel that any further information as to any future outcome would only cause more comments. Therefore I shall make no further mention, but to everyone , especially those who criticise, be aware it could happen to (((( YOU )))) and ((( YOU ))) would soon be up in arms about it as well.

It is so easy to sneer at others on the internet for their misfortunes through NO fault of their own. I have every right here or elsewhere to express my thoughts, and this is believe it or not still a free country to do it in. If not I would only be too happy to be removed from this or any other forum.

Give a thought that spending well over £1000 on a product (((( YOU )))) thought was new but wasn't, is not the nicest of experiences, to say the least, and I don't take back ANYTHING I said in my original posting. There are thousands of people seeking such work and those incapable of carrying out their duties should be retrained or replaced.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR SELLING USED GOODS AS NEW.

The ONLY reason why they get away with it is because we don't complain enough. Still if those on here don't agree with me then let them be content with accepting used equipment purchased as new.

Realspeed
 
What makes you think it was at least 6 months old?
 
I bought my 10-20 from them, got it home and the barrel had signs of use.

I just took it in at the weekend, they exchanged it for a mint one, no probs.

Mistakes and the odd con happen, it's just part of retail. It's how the retailer handles the mistake that matters and they should be given the chance to do that before casting too harsh a judgement on them. Life's too short to get too ansgt about it yet ;)
 
I don't think anyone was saying you should 'accept second hand equipment' but that you went a tad overboard with the legal action, shoot the manager thing. Most people would have taken it back to the shop, asked for a replacement, got one, and then gone out and spent the afternoon playing with their new camera. It's when things go wrong that you actually get to try out a retailer's customer service. I think your reaction was a little OTT. I'd have understood it more if they had refused to replace it.

Anyway, hope you get it sorted whatever the reason was (have you checked the EXIF yet?)
 
so it wasn't a wind up then
i did wonder

it seems that it was a geniune mistake

i cant help but wonder have you never made a mistake yourself ??

as for spending £ 1000 on a new camera only to found it's not i would not be happy ,i'm sure the same could be said for most/ all other members on here .


but talking of having people suspended or as mentioned on the other forum arrested is i think total madness .
 
realspeed said:
Ok I have got the general census of what you are all saying. What everyone is forgetting that I, unlike some others, have to save hard to purchase a camera like this. When you go into a so called "reputable " shop to purchase a NEW camera, you don't expect to be palmed off with a camera at least 6 months old and with 1800 shutter actuactions.

This is NOT my business and is only a hobby, if I treated my clients within my industry like this I wouldn't get a second chance to redeem myself , I would loose my clients, my reputation, and eventually my business built up over many years.

In the present economic climate where shops are closing on a daily basis and hundreds of people loosing their jobs, those still in work should make an extra effort to make sure the goods they are selling are as stated and advertised, or be prepared to accept the consequences.

As everyone has their own opinion either for or against, I feel that any further information as to any future outcome would only cause more comments. Therefore I shall make no further mention, but to everyone , especially those who criticise, be aware it could happen to (((( YOU )))) and ((( YOU ))) would soon be up in arms about it as well.

It is so easy to sneer at others on the internet for their misfortunes through NO fault of their own. I have every right here or elsewhere to express my thoughts, and this is believe it or not still a free country to do it in. If not I would only be too happy to be removed from this or any other forum.

Give a thought that spending well over £1000 on a product (((( YOU )))) thought was new but wasn't, is not the nicest of experiences, to say the least, and I don't take back ANYTHING I said in my original posting. There are thousands of people seeking such work and those incapable of carrying out their duties should be retrained or replaced.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR SELLING USED GOODS AS NEW.

The ONLY reason why they get away with it is because we don't complain enough. Still if those on here don't agree with me then let them be content with accepting used equipment purchased as new.

Realspeed
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So you don't feel that you have over-reacted in the slightest? :shrug:
 
Ok maybe I did go over the top a bit, but so would anyone else who felt they had been " cheated ". As for it being a genuine "mistake" that is what causes shops to close.

Realspeed
 
So....have you taken the damn thing back yet? :annoyed::boxer::police:

293791723STzGqj_ph.jpg
 
I think you're probably being unrealistic in expecting the Manager to be suspended, on the other hand it's certainly not unreasonable to expect to purchase a brand new camera. I wouldn't call 1800 actuations brand new by any means.

You do have a valid point
I'll be interested in seeing the outcome, but do suggest that being calm and putting forward a logical argument will get you much further than going in with all guns blazing.

NEVER lose track of what you actually WANT... a brand new replacement with the least amount of fuss or a court case? I'm sure you'd still win in the end but they could drag it out for months, and that doesn't help you much.
 
could it have been unsold stock and your card a used one that showed continued numbers? My 50d had 3540 as the shot number as that was the next one on the card, plug the camera in to the pc with the camera software and check the camera for information, like user and actuations.
 
matty said:
could it have been unsold stock and your card a used one that showed continued numbers? My 50d had 3540 as the shot number as that was the next one on the card, plug the camera in to the pc with the camera software and check the camera for information, like user and actuations.
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You're quite right matty. I think the only way around that is to format the card in the pc as opposed to the camera? Then I'd guess it should give an indication of the actual actualtions... I think... well maybe? :)
 
I format all my cards before reuse and as far as I am aware the card does not dictate to the camera how many shutter actuations the camera has made.
This is recorded within the camera built in memory only.

What others havn't taken into consideration that a few years down the line, should I wish to sell the camera, it will be worth less with that extra numbers on the shutter count. it could reduce the price by up to 3 figures.

AS I said I am giong to make no more comments on the outcome so please don't ask.


Realspeed
 
realspeed said:
Ok maybe I did go over the top a bit, but so would anyone else who felt they had been " cheated ". As for it being a genuine "mistake" that is what causes shops to close.

Realspeed
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No, most normal people would just take the camera back, get a refund and go buy a camera elsewhere.

Mistakes happen, stuff gets put in the wrong box, inexperienced sales people give bad advice. Happens all the time. The real test is how the shop handles your complaint.

The last time I took a camera back to Jessops (a D300, as it happens) it took all of, oh, 5 minutes , the staff couldn't have been more helpful and the Police didn't have to get involved at all ;)
 
So what was the outcome? :naughty:
 
when the flash on my D60 which i bought from one branch of "the retailer we're not allowed to mention" at xmas failed after about 3 weeks , I simply returned it (to another branch) and they swapped it for a brand new camera no questions asked ,

I might add i went in cool , calm and collected (most unlike me !) and was in and out , new camera in hand within 5 mins

its surprising what the right approach can achieve !!!!!!!!!!!
 
realspeed said:
AS I said I am giong to make no more comments on the outcome so please don't ask.
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Well, here's the problem. This time last night you were going to have pretty much everyone involved strung up by their balls and whipped until they confessed to being puppy killers. You were convinced you'd been conned by a store that was deliberately out to rip you off.

Maybe that was the case. But you have been offered explanations in this thread (and others on the net elsewhere) that may have put a different spin on things. And now, very defensively, you refuse to tell us what was the outcome.

I'm puzzled.
 
mobilevirgin said:
Well, here's the problem. This time last night you were going to have pretty much everyone involved strung up by their balls and whipped until they confessed to being puppy killers. You were convinced you'd been conned by a store that was deliberately out to rip you off.

Maybe that was the case. But you have been offered explanations in this thread (and others on the net elsewhere) that may have put a different spin on things. And now, very defensively, you refuse to tell us what was the outcome.

I'm puzzled.
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mmmmmmmmmm , i thought the same , will we ever know the REAL truth if it isn't the outcome mr realspeed wanted ?

who knows ?
 
Standing up for consumer rights is laudable, but I think you were quick to discount the possibility of genuine human error. Or, if you did not discount the possibility, you should then accept it as 'one of those things' that everyone encounters at some point.
 
hepburn said:
btw, when people write to head office you are best addressing your letter to the company secretary as they are personally legally responsible for the proper and legal operation of said company, so they have a vested interest in making sure the company doesn't fall foul of any laws - even basic misrepresentation!
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The Company Secretary is not legally responsible for such. Since 6th april 2008 a private company doesn't even require to have a Company Secretary (not for PLC's though). Broadly speaking they are only liable for failure to comply with responsibilities to Companies House. I am unfortunately a Company Secretary for many companies and it's a mugs role really but I have no choice due to my profession. :(

A Director of a company is probably your best bet as they are the ones liable for the company's actions but essentially will only be personally liable if they break the law, hence the whole point of limited liability. It's actually quite difficult to make Director personally liable as all sorts of actions have to be proven and it would have to be very serious.

Even better, the shareholders because they do actually have a vested interest (being financial) with the company.
 
gman said:
The Company Secretary is not legally responsible for such. Since 6th april 2008 a private company doesn't even require to have a Company Secretary (not for PLC's though). Broadly speaking they are only liable for failure to comply with responsibilities to Companies House. I am unfortunately a Company Secretary for many companies and it's a mugs role really but I have no choice due to my profession. :(

A Director of a company is probably your best bet as they are the ones liable for the company's actions but essentially will only be personally liable if they break the law, hence the whole point of limited liability. It's actually quite difficult to make Director personally liable as all sorts of actions have to be proven and it would have to be very serious.

Even better, the shareholders because they do actually have a vested interest (being financial) with the company.
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Or just take the camera back to the shop :lol:
 
Hells Bells, you know I really thought the OP was on an April Fools Wind up :cuckoo:

Mistakes can be made, it happens, and with the possible exception of brain surgery and the like, very few are fatal. Give them a chance to rectify the situation before piling in like a loose wrecking ball, take the camera back to the shop.

I pressume you have called TV's Watchdog too btw? :naughty: :whistling:
 
realspeed said:
It is so easy to sneer at others on the internet for their misfortunes through NO fault of their own. I have every right here or elsewhere to express my thoughts, and this is believe it or not still a free country to do it in. If not I would only be too happy to be removed from this or any other forum.
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Give over with the sob story, not one single person has 'sneered' at you and your misfortune. It is a free country and you got a dose of it here and didn't like it.
In a nut shell, rather than your overly sensitive reactions be nurtured and encouraged here (on TP) as with the other forums you've posted on, your attitude and reactions in the matter have been reviewed fairly and honestly.

What would you prefer?, to be told your making a meal of it or for us to lie and tell you all is well with the way your handling it?
Personally, this is why I like this forum more than any other, as most of the time you get the unedited truth.

Believe it or not, people point out these issues to you in order to try to help you, to help you see that your anger got the better of you and you were behaving unnecessarily.
All you received was sound advice and told to chill the hell out, all for your own benefit.
 
Yv said:
Hells Bells, you know I really thought the OP was on an April Fools Wind up :cuckoo:
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You mean it isn't? Surely you're not suggesting that some can really get as worked up as this over such a non-event?
 
I suspect it's fairly common practice for shops to play with the gear, even taking it home for the weekend to try out and have a play. The problem then starts when they flog it as new.
I'm not convinced by the card argument, we often swap cards back and fro between cameras on jobs, and I have never seen this happen, our cameras still show the normal numbers, I even tried it out on the 2 cameras I have handy (D3 and D300) they didn't change, maybe the camera has to have something set in custom functions for this to work?
Personally I would have gone back to the shop sharpish and see what they would offer, either a replacement or "something off" for second hand. Wayne
 
MisterE said:
You are continuing to confuse the number assigned to the photo with the number of shutter actuations. Whilst a camera from new will assign a sequential number, once you start putting cards with existing pictures on them from other cameras, the first camera *can* (but not always) pick up a different sequence. I'm not stating an opinion here. It's a fact. I don't state facts here unless I am 100% sure. I have had frequent experience of this happening. It has usually become apparent when I've come to review a day's shooting and found them out of sequence because I've been careless in managing my cards, requiring renaming (which I do anyway). It first happened on my then fairly new 10D with only 1000 shots on it. I put in a card from my Canon G5 with around 7000 and some pictures still on it, and that's where the 10D jumped to.

Like I said, I'm not saying it happens all the time. I've just tried different cards with pictures on in my 5D and it is currently ignoring the sequence of the existing pictures of the cards and keeping the same one despite changing cards. But this camera has already lost its numbering. It currently shows 3880. I know for a fact that this is incorrect. Neither is it 13880, nor 23880 etc.

If file numbering was the way to measure shutter actuations, why are there programs around that are specifically designed to measure this number? Why are so many people constantly asking (and not necessarily here) where to get these programs? Before anybody asks, there are a number of cameras for which there is nothing available to read actuations and can only be done by the manufacturer. A number of Canons fall in to this category.
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swanseamale47 said:
I suspect it's fairly common practice for shops to play with the gear, even taking it home for the weekend to try out and have a play. The problem then starts when they flog it as new.
I'm not convinced by the card argument, we often swap cards back and fro between cameras on jobs, and I have never seen this happen, our cameras still show the normal numbers, I even tried it out on the 2 cameras I have handy (D3 and D300) they didn't change, maybe the camera has to have something set in custom functions for this to work?
Personally I would have gone back to the shop sharpish and see what they would offer, either a replacement or "something off" for second hand. Wayne
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Ah! So its not just me then? Like I asked in a previous post. I have had my 400D for a while now, the numbering system was set to continuous in camera. I have a 2 and 4gig cards,I have formatted them on more than one ocassion and the file numbers of my pics are still showing a running total. No I have never used other cards, but like mentioned I cannot see how the card can determine the count. Information is passed to the card via data, the card cannot pass data to the camera. Think of the problems that could occur if that was possible, mobiles, hard drives, and any other storage devices. I am sure that if this was the case then the developers would have been on the case by now.

But then what do I know?
 
realspeed said:
What others havn't taken into consideration that a few years down the line, should I wish to sell the camera, it will be worth less with that extra numbers on the shutter count. it could reduce the price by up to 3 figures.
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an extra 1800 shots over 3 years is not going to really affect the resale one bit.

Good job it wasn't a new car - the dealers can reset the mileage to zero up to 3 times providing its under 100 miles or so, you your brand new zero milage car could have 300 flat out wheelspinning miles on it.
 
u8myufo said:
Ah! So its not just me then? Like I asked in a previous post. I have had my 400D for a while now, the numbering system was set to continuous in camera. I have a 2 and 4gig cards,I have formatted them on more than one ocassion and the file numbers of my pics are still showing a running total. No I have never used other cards, but like mentioned I cannot see how the card can determine the count. Information is passed to the card via data, the card cannot pass data to the camera. Think of the problems that could occur if that was possible, mobiles, hard drives, and any other storage devices. I am sure that if this was the case then the developers would have been on the case by now.

But then what do I know?
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Actually it can. Firmware updates are normally recorded to a card via a computer and then read by the camera. The file number changing would seem to be a bit more fluid and it certainly doesn't seem to happen if a fresh formatted card is installed in a camera. It can happen if a card containing existing files is installed apparently (have a look at the last paragraph on page 96 of your manual).
 
christ, if we fired our shop staff every time a small mistake was made we'd need a complete new compliment every week.

mistakes happen, get realistic, deal with it, take it back for replacement and move on.
 
u8myufo said:
He did the right thing. And exchanged it for a Canon
:lol::lol::lol:
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Seriously I want to know the outcome. It's important.

The OP is tarring everyone with the same brush here. What most of the posters did was to suggest a calm approach. What silliness went on was mostly between other folk jockying for a good view.

Clearly the OP was not happy with his purchase. I for one am interested in how it was resolved and what he had to do in order to reach that resolution. This information would be useful to others in the same position.

Hopefully the outcome was positive. I can't believe it wasn't as I suspect that the OP would have pointed that out (if only to silence those few who were poking fun).
 
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